MSN: Top 20 Cars That Changed The World

Started by SVT666, March 25, 2010, 12:37:58 PM

SVT666

MSN Autos: Top 20 Cars That Changed The World

(in alphabetical order)

1. Audi Quattro - Brought AWD to the masses.

2. Austin Mini - Introduced transverse-mounted engine with FWD.  Paved the way for today's small cars

3. 1959 Cadillacs - Represented the American Dream

4. Chevrolet Corvair - It was so dangerous it forced the US Government to implement safety regs.

5. Citroen DS - It is considered a work of art by art connoisseurs.

6. Citroen Traction Avant - First FWD produced on an assembly line with a unibody design.

7. Dodge Caravan - First ever minivan.

8. Ford Mustang - Every domestic manufacturer and some foreign automakers responded with their own competitor.  With the Mustang, America declared it's passion for power, speed, and freedom.

9. Ford Model T - First ever car built on an assembly line.  In the 1920s 50% of all the cars on the planet were Model Ts.  It was available in any color you liked, as long as it was black.

10. Ford Model B V8 - Brought the V8 to the masses.  Every other manufacturer was forced to follow suit, and America's love story with the V8 began.

11. GM Le Sabre Concept - It's one of the most unique and influential concept cars ever made.

12. Jeep

13. Lamborghini Miura - The birth of the supercar.

14. MG A - The prototypical British roadster.  Only the Miata has come close to it since the 70s.

15. Datsun 240Z - First Japanese car not to be considered "junk" and was considered a first class sports car.

16. Range Rover - First luxury SUV.

17. Renault 16 - Stood out from the crowd with it's unique hatchback design and removable back seat.

18. Toyota Prius - First mass-produced mainstream hybrid car.

19. VW Beetle

20. Volvo Amazon - Three point seatbelts, a padded dashboard, a laminated windshield, anti-slip pedals...all of these were standard.

MexicoCityM3

The 3 series should be in there. It created the compact luxury segment.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

93JC

I really hate these lists.

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 12:37:58 PM
1. Audi Quattro - Brought AWD to the masses.

Subaru? AMC Eagle?

Quote4. Chevrolet Corvair - It was so dangerous it forced the US Government to implement safety regs.

:rolleyes: No it wasn't.

Quote16. Range Rover - First luxury SUV.

Jeep Super Wagoneer was the first.

Byteme

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 12:37:58 PM
MSN Autos: Top 20 Cars That Changed The World

(in alphabetical order)


3. 1959 Cadillacs - Represented the American Dream
Maybe so, but the change was effected by the mid 50's versions that led to the 59 model.

4. Chevrolet Corvair - It was so dangerous it forced the US Government to implement safety regs.
Proof that the person(s) compiling the list don't know beans.  The Corvair was no more dangerous than the Falcon or Plymouth Valiant of the same years.  Much like the Pinto the Corvair was unfairly tagged as a killer

5. Citroen DS - It is considered a work of art by art connoisseurs.
And ugly as hell by others; In any event it's design polarizes opinion.   If one were to pick a car based on Work of Art criteria they should have picked the E-type.  It's generally acknowledged as one of the most beautiful cars ever made on just about any list you are likely to read. .  

7. Dodge Caravan - First ever minivan.
I'd argue the VW van, the Corvair van and the Falcon based van predated the Dodge.

13. Lamborghini Miura - The birth of the supercar.
Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Masaratti fans will readily debate that statement.

15. Datsun 240Z - First Japanese car not to be considered "junk" and was considered a first class sports car.
Didn't the Datsun 510 predate the 240Z

16. Range Rover - First luxury SUV.
I'd argue the mid 60's Jeep Wagoneers offered more luxury than their Range Rover counterparts of the same era.


SVT666

EtypeJohn: 
I think you missed the point of the 1959 Cadillac.  It may have been influenced by the mid-fifties cars, but the '59 is the one that embodied the American Dream. 

Also, the VW van was not a minivan.  Minivan have rows of seats.  The VW vans had a living room/kitchen/bedroom.

The Lamborghini Miura was the first Mid-engined supercar was it not?

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
Also, the VW van was not a minivan.  Minivan have rows of seats.  The VW vans had a living room/kitchen/bedroom.

The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

SVT666

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 25, 2010, 02:12:35 PM
The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.
It doesn't really matter who was "first", because that could be debated all day and night.  What matters is which was the most influential, and that is by far the Dodge Caravan.

Galaxy

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:17:50 PM
It doesn't really matter who was "first", because that could be debated all day and night.  What matters is which was the most influential, and that is by far the Dodge Caravan.

The MSN list says "first" though.

Also who says that the Caravan designers were not influenced by the Espace?

Byteme

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
EtypeJohn: 
I think you missed the point of the 1959 Cadillac.  It may have been influenced by the mid-fifties cars, but the '59 is the one that embodied the American Dream. 
More than just influenced,  the 59 was the extension of the earlier models.  That in itself doesn't make it the ultimate expression of the American dream  

Also, the VW van was not a minivan.  Minivan have rows of seats.  The VW vans had a living room/kitchen/bedroom.
VW made a lot of variants of their Type 2 Transporter.  One version was a camper conversion.  Well before that, in the early 50's the Kombi had a second and third row of seats.  

Wikipedia lists the following variants:

The Type 2 was available as a:

Panel van, a delivery van without side windows or rear seats.
Nippen Tucket, available in six colours, with or without doors.
Walk-Through Panel Van, a delivery van without side windows or rear seats and cargo doors on both sides.
High Roof Panel Van (German: Hochdach), a delivery van with raised roof.
Kombi, from German: Kombinationskraftwagen (combination motor vehicle), with side windows and removable rear seats, both a passenger and a cargo   vehicle combined.
Bus, also called a Volkswagen Caravelle, a van with more comfortable interior reminiscent of passenger cars since the third generation.
Samba-Bus, a van with skylight windows and cloth sunroof, first generation only, also known as a Deluxe Microbus.
Flatbed pickup truck, or Single Cab, also available with wider load bed.
Crew cab pick-up, a flatbed truck with extended cab and two rows of seats, also called a Doka, from German: Doppelkabine.
Westfalia camping van, "Westy", with Westfalia roof and interior.


The Lamborghini Miura was the first Mid-engined supercar was it not?
The list didn't say mid engined, it just said supercar.

SVT666

Quote from: Galaxy on March 25, 2010, 02:20:19 PM
The MSN list says "first" though.
Agreed.  But the Caravan is widely regarded as the first "minivan".

QuoteAlso who says that the Caravan designers were not influenced by the Espace?
It's not who was the first to influence, it's who was the MOST influential.  Without a doubt, that's the Caravan.

Byteme

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 25, 2010, 02:12:35 PM
The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.

I think they made well over a million VW transporters in various styles between 1950 and 1975.  Would't that count as successful? 

SVT666

ETypeJohn:  The list actually said mid-engined, I just missed it when I was typing it.  As for the 1959 Cadillac, I stilla gree with the author that it was the '59 that embodied the American Dream.  It's something we're going to have to agree to disagree on.

Galaxy

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
EtypeJohn: 

Also, the VW van was not a minivan.  Minivan have rows of seats.  The VW vans had a living room/kitchen/bedroom.


I am not sure what was offered in North America, but the T1 was available without the kitchen etc, with up to 9 seats.

93JC

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 25, 2010, 02:12:35 PM
The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.

The Espace wasn't unveiled to the press until April, 1984. The Caravan went on sale in November, 1983.

I very much doubt Renault/Matra and Chrysler knew much about the other's vehicle.

Byteme

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
ETypeJohn:  The list actually said mid-engined, I just missed it when I was typing it.  As for the 1959 Cadillac, I stilla gree with the author that it was the '59 that embodied the American Dream.  It's something we're going to have to agree to disagree on.

I would agree the Miura was the first mid engined supercar.

Galaxy

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:22:51 PM
It's not who was the first to influence, it's who was the MOST influential.  Without a doubt, that's the Caravan.


How did the Caravan influence the segment more then the Espace?

If you say by sales numbers then you can knock the Audi Quattro off the list.

Byteme

Quote from: 93JC on March 25, 2010, 02:31:01 PM
The Espace wasn't unveiled to the press until April, 1984. The Caravan went on sale in November, 1983.

I very much doubt Renault/Matra and Chrysler knew much about the other's vehicle.

I just refreshed my history on the original Dodge.  Iacocca had tried, unsuccessfully to pitch the idea to Henry Ford, while Iacocca was Still president of Ford.  He took the idea with him to Chrysler and the rest is history.  The original Dodge van was one of the 342,684 platform variants of the K-car, the car that saved Chrysler Corp.

TBR

Quote from: EtypeJohn on March 25, 2010, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 12:37:58 PM
MSN Autos: Top 20 Cars That Changed The World

(in alphabetical order)


3. 1959 Cadillacs - Represented the American Dream
Maybe so, but the change was effected by the mid 50's versions that led to the 59 model.

4. Chevrolet Corvair - It was so dangerous it forced the US Government to implement safety regs.
Proof that the person(s) compiling the list don't know beans.  The Corvair was no more dangerous than the Falcon or Plymouth Valiant of the same years.  Much like the Pinto the Corvair was unfairly tagged as a killer

5. Citroen DS - It is considered a work of art by art connoisseurs.
And ugly as hell by others; In any event it's design polarizes opinion.   If one were to pick a car based on Work of Art criteria they should have picked the E-type.  It's generally acknowledged as one of the most beautiful cars ever made on just about any list you are likely to read. .  

7. Dodge Caravan - First ever minivan.
I'd argue the VW van, the Corvair van and the Falcon based van predated the Dodge.

13. Lamborghini Miura - The birth of the supercar.
Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Masaratti fans will readily debate that statement.

15. Datsun 240Z - First Japanese car not to be considered "junk" and was considered a first class sports car.
Didn't the Datsun 510 predate the 240Z

16. Range Rover - First luxury SUV.
I'd argue the mid 60's Jeep Wagoneers offered more luxury than their Range Rover counterparts of the same era.



Don't even get me started on Ralph Nadar. He caused an incalculable amount of damage to this country.

Odd thing about the American minivan, the idea originally came into being during the late '60s at Ford. Henry II refused to let the program move forward, largely because he simply didn't like its most powerful proponent (Iaccoca). Chrysler began discussing the same idea separately in the mid '70s and when Iaccoca arrived there in '79-80 (after Henry II fired him) he rushed it to production.

Edit-->>Looks like John beat me to the punch. Though it was originally the idea of a Ford product man and Iaccoca loyalist who Henry II fired for being too uppity.

93JC

Quote from: Galaxy on March 25, 2010, 02:32:05 PM

How did the Caravan influence the segment more then the Espace?

Dual sliding doors, stowable seats, V6 engine... Every (North American) minivan has copied the Caravan/Voyager.

Byteme

#19
Quote from: 93JC on March 25, 2010, 02:39:28 PM
Dual sliding doors, stowable seats, V6 engine...

None of which were available on the first ones.

Don't get me wrong, they were a brilliant concept in 1983 and sold like hotcakes.  But the first ones were rather spartan compared to the later generations.

93JC

#20
The first generation was available with a V6 engine, actually.

If we want to talk about the original '84 models the fact that they were compact, unibody and front-drive was revolutionary (at least the front-drive part, anyway). More to the point they drove like a car, which up until that point was completely unheard of for a van. The VW bus can claim to have preceded the Caravan with many features, but I think in retrospect that was the big selling point: they were the first vans that drove like a conventional car and not like a truck. They weren't forward-control, cab-over-engine, mid-engined or rear-drive, which up until that point was never, ever tried before. There have been vans which have been mid-engined, rear-drive, cab-over-engine or forward-control since the Caravan debuted, and they were almost all spectacular failures by comparison. Note these lame ducks (Aerostar, MPV, Toyota/Nissan/Mitusbishi vans, Previa) were replaced by vans which were eerily similar in form and engineering to, you guessed it: the Caravan (Windstar, Sienna, etc.)! I'd argue that the Caravan didn't even have competition until the GM U-bodies debuted around the time the second-generation Caravans were being brought to market.

Even the ones that followed the original Caravan formula closely had to adapt to be exactly like the Caravan. The Honda Odyssey is what I'm speaking of here: front-drive four-cylinder built off the Accord chassis. Sounds a lot like the original Caravan and Voyager, right? But the Caravan by that time had a V6 engine as an option, and had always had sliding doors. Guess what the second-generation Odyssey had that the first didn't? Sliding doors and a V6...

For over a solid decade the Caravan completely dominated the minivan sales charts due to a combination of previously unheard of features, more manageable size and aggressive pricing.

There is no minivan in North America that has pushed the industry and the very idea of what a minivan is supposed to feature and do more than the Caravan.



And even in Europe: why do you think Renault came out with a Grand Espace? Probably had something to do with the Chrysler Grand Voyager...

MX793

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 25, 2010, 02:12:35 PM
The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.

The Dodge Caravan beat the Espace to market by a few months, so it was technically the first.  It's also interesting to note that the design for the Espace actually came from Chrysler UK, ended up in the hands of Matra after PSA bought Chrysler's UK division, and then Matra sold the design to Renault.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Onslaught

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
EtypeJohn: 
I think you missed the point of the 1959 Cadillac.  It may have been influenced by the mid-fifties cars, but the '59 is the one that embodied the American Dream


What is our "dream?" I've seen that in the list and I'm not sure what the thinking is behind it. It's sure as hell not my dream whatever they think.

2o6

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 25, 2010, 02:12:35 PM
The Renault Espace was a minivan and predated the Caravan - though the Caravan was the first real success of the segment.


They were developed together, the Caravan was more successful from the start.


And the Caravan was 1st by a few months.

2o6

Quote from: SVT666 on March 25, 2010, 12:37:58 PM
MSN Autos: Top 20 Cars That Changed The World

(in alphabetical order)

1. Audi Quattro - Brought AWD to the masses.

Subaru DL?

2. Austin Mini - Introduced transverse-mounted engine with FWD.  Paved the way for today's small cars

3. 1959 Cadillacs - Represented the American Dream
Pretty Vague.
4. Chevrolet Corvair - It was so dangerous it forced the US Government to implement safety regs.
That's not true. RR was something people weren't used to.
5. Citroen DS - It is considered a work of art by art connoisseurs.
I don't think that's the reason it should be on the list. The hydropnumatic suspension and other (for the time) innovative features out do it's subjective beauty.
6. Citroen Traction Avant - First FWD produced on an assembly line with a unibody design.

7. Dodge Caravan - First ever minivan.

8. Ford Mustang - Every domestic manufacturer and some foreign automakers responded with their own competitor.  With the Mustang, America declared it's passion for power, speed, and freedom.

9. Ford Model T - First ever car built on an assembly line.  In the 1920s 50% of all the cars on the planet were Model Ts.  It was available in any color you liked, as long as it was black.
Pretty Generic.
10. Ford Model B V8 - Brought the V8 to the masses.  Every other manufacturer was forced to follow suit, and America's love story with the V8 began.

11. GM Le Sabre Concept - It's one of the most unique and influential concept cars ever made.
Yet again - Vague.
12. Jeep

13. Lamborghini Miura - The birth of the supercar.

14. MG A - The prototypical British roadster.  Only the Miata has come close to it since the 70s.
Suzuki Cappuccino? There are plenty of light RWD roadsters.
15. Datsun 240Z - First Japanese car not to be considered "junk" and was considered a first class sports car.

16. Range Rover - First luxury SUV.

17. Renault 16 - Stood out from the crowd with it's unique hatchback design and removable back seat.

18. Toyota Prius - First mass-produced mainstream hybrid car.

19. VW Beetle

20. Volvo Amazon - Three point seatbelts, a padded dashboard, a laminated windshield, anti-slip pedals...all of these were standard.

TBR

Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2010, 04:26:41 PM
14. MG A - The prototypical British roadster.  Only the Miata has come close to it since the 70s.
Suzuki Cappuccino? There are plenty of light RWD roadsters.

Name me another rear wheel drive, front engined, simple two seater convertible sold in the USA and engineered after 1980 other than the Miata? 


the Teuton

Also, I'd say that the Buick Y-Job was a lot more influential than a lot of these cars.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Onslaught

Quote from: TBR on March 25, 2010, 04:36:43 PM
Name me another rear wheel drive, front engined, simple two seater convertible sold in the USA and engineered after 1980 other than the Miata? 


And most modern two seat convertibles probably wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the Miata.

AutobahnSHO

pfft. That list sucks.

As much as the author likes it, AWD still isn't all that popular. The Taurus and "new aerodynamic look" rate way above a bunch of those picks, etc....
Will

Rupert

Quote from: TBR on March 25, 2010, 04:36:43 PM
Name me another rear wheel drive, front engined, simple two seater convertible sold in the USA and engineered after 1980 other than the Miata? 



Right, but name me another lightweight British simple two-seater sold since the MGA (no space; that's MG MGA) went out of production in 1961/2/3 (one of those).

Oh, yeah: MGB, big Healeys, TR4, TR6, Spitfire, Bugeye, Midget...

Not to mention a coupld of Italians (Alfa and Fiat Spiders), at least one Japanese (Datsun), some Germans (914, at least)...

I found the choice of the MGA out of all of the above cars to be odd.
Novarolla-Miata-Trooper-Jeep-Volvo-Trooper-Ranger-MGB-Explorer-944-Fiat-Alfa-XTerra

13 cars, 60 cylinders, 52 manual forward gears and 9 automatic, 2 FWD, 42 doors, 1988 average year of manufacture, 3 convertibles, 22 average mpg, and no wheel covers.
PRO TENACIA NULLA VIA EST INVIA