Motor Trend Mustang GT vs Camaro SS vs Challenger SRT

[Vinsanity]

Until it opens, it's inadequate.

I'm probably misunderstanding your logic, but how is a glass roof less adequate than a regular sunroof? (which is what you initially said the hardtop Mustang should have)

I'd go straight for the ragtop Mustang myself, but I think the glass roof is pretty nifty, too. I'd love to have one on a 370Z.

[MX793]

I'm probably misunderstanding your logic, but how is a glass roof less adequate than a regular sunroof? (which is what you initially said the hardtop Mustang should have)

I'd go straight for the ragtop Mustang myself, but I think the glass roof is pretty nifty, too. I'd love to have one on a 370Z.

A sunroof opens to let air in, a glass roof does not (it's just a big skylight).

[Vinsanity]

A sunroof opens to let air in, a glass roof does not (it's just a big skylight).

ohh, gotcha. For some reason, I was under the impression that the big glass panel actually slid back like the newer Porsche targas, or at least like the Mercedes panorama roof. Personally, I drive most of the time with the glass panel closed and the shade drawn open, but for $2k, I want to be able to open up the roof when I want.

[Raza]

Get a vert.

The coupe looks better!

[Nethead]

The plot thickens!  So say many, and www.autoblog.com has a public poll on the issue:

2011 Ford Mustang GT vs. 2010 BMW M3: Tie Game? [w/poll]
by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on Apr 16th, 2010 at 7:24 PM

Alright, fan boys (and girls), prepare for battle. The ever keen-eyed Sam Smith over at Jalopnik has spied an interesting phenomenon in the car universe. The new 2011 Ford Mustang GT performance figures are within spitting distance of the mighty 2010 BMW M3. The Bavarian bruiser produces 414 horsepower out of its milky-smooth 4.0-liter V8 and hits the scales at 3,652 lbs. Meanwhile, the 5.0-liter Mustang serves up two less horsepower, but weighs 40 pounds less, too.

At this point, odds are your blood is pumping no matter which side of the ring you happen to find yourself on. Stats that close yield frighteningly similar numbers when the two cars hit the track, too. The M3 can clip off the 0-60 dash in 4.3 seconds. The Mustang can do it in 4.4. Quarter mile? Deadlocked at 12.7 seconds at 111.3 mph.

It's true, a quarter mile doth not a sports car make, which is why these next figures are so important. While the M3 can come down from 60 mph in 105 feet, the Mustang can do the same in 104. And here's the real shocker: Both cars hold onto the skidpad at .97 g. Now, before the comments go superfly TNT, it's worth noting that the as-tested BMW will set you back an eye-widening $28,180 more than the Ford. We could think of a thing or two to do with an extra 30-large.

(Figures for an '08 Audi S5--the 4.2L DI V8 six-speed manual model, more costly than the M3--are the quarter-mile in 13.4 secs @105 MPH, 0-60 in 4.8 secs, 14.41 to 14.46 secs on a 300 ft skidpad at .88 G, and 70-0 in 158 ft.  Weight as tested: 3818 lbs)

So the question remains, which would you take home?

E92 BMW M3 or 2011 Mustang GT?  

At the time the Nethead here is posting this (April 19th), the polling is running about 57 percent BMW M3, 43 percent 2011 Mustang GT.  (Update: As of today, April 20th, the polls appear to have reversed themselves as the 2011 Mustang GT now has 58 percent of the vote and the BMW M3 has 41 percent, per forums.motivemag.com)  There are zero write-ins for the Challenger SRT or the Camaro SS.  

Remember how they used to compare Mustang GTs to 350Zs and later to 370Zs?  BTW, has anyone ever seen a comparo of the Camaro SS to either of these Nissan sportscars?  Has anyone bothered?

Well, the game has moved up an order of magnitude when Mustang GTs are now being proposed as the M3s for the Masses.  We need some slalom times and some Laguna Seca lap times!  Stripped versions of both cars are pretty much neck-and-neck in the Grand-Am Continental Cup with three races in the books.  Porsche 996s/997s/Caymans are distant thirds in this scenario, and Camaro GSRs are also-rans.  Challengers are like showing up the day after the race in the stats.

Please don't anyone start suggesting what the 2011 Mustang GT would do to the BMW M3 with an additional $28,180 in performance mods --we can figure that out unassisted.  All the additional Mustang talk which that would generate would just piss off 93JC, Third Eye of the Tiger, and of course the Village Idiot of the World Wide Web.

[Submariner]

Unless the 2011 GT is radically better than the 2010, and unless the M3 is a notch or two worse than the 335i I drove, I don't see much of a comparison. 

Numbers only take you so far - there are many components of a car that cannot be described in such quantitative terms. 

[Nethead]

Unless the 2011 GT is radically better than the 2010, and unless the M3 is a notch or two worse than the 335i I drove, I don't see much of a comparison.  

Numbers only take you so far - there are many components of a car that cannot be described in such quantitative terms.  

Submariner:  All totally true!  Evidently, the 2011 Mustang GT  IS  radically better than the 2010 Mustang GT:  You already know that both engines are totally new, that last year's Track Pack suspension option is now the standard suspension in the 2011 Mustang GT, that a summer tires option is available for the first time, and that the GT500's 14-inch Brembos are now optional on the 2011 Mustang GT.  But little things like additional chassis stiffening (up an additional 12-15 percent, I've read), lowered COG, six-speed autos & manuals, actually better electric-assisted steering, LSDs, yada yada yada work together to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

And $28,180 (US) in additional outlay will get you the additional qualities that an M3 offers that a 2011 Mustang GT may not.  No one will argue (no one with brain one, anyway) with the statement that the M3 is one of the ten best vehicles of all time.  It truly is.  Period.  But it is time to compare these two side-by-side to see just where they stand in the performance categories of speed, acceleration, handling, braking, maneuverability, control at the limits, et al.  

The BMW M3 is not diminished even a gram by this--the M3 is still the M3 that it always has been.  But the 2011 Mustang GT (and to a lesser degree the 2011 Mustang V6) has upped its game to a level no one expected in a $31,795 car, and the game ain't over yet...

[SVT666]

I priced out a Mustang GT on the Fordvehicles.com exactly the way I would want it and it came to $37,300.

I priced out a Mustang GT on the Ford.ca exactly the way I would want it and it came to $43,599.

Canadian Dollar is exactly at par with the US Dollar today.  That's a $6300 difference.  Bullshit!

[Nethead]

Since Motor Trend did this comparo, the Village Idiot of the World Wide Web has been conspicuously absent from the Mustang threads

Heh heh heh

[hotrodalex]

Unless the 2011 GT is radically better than the 2010, and unless the M3 is a notch or two worse than the 335i I drove, I don't see much of a comparison. 

Numbers only take you so far - there are many components of a car that cannot be described in such quantitative terms. 

It is. The Mustang may be just as fast as my BMW (on public roads, the Mustang would be faster on a race track), but it's a different kind of car. You can't really compare them, IMO. It's like comparing my Camaro or El Camino to my BMW. Just doesn't work. They are both extremely fun, but different kinds of fun.

[the Teuton]

E46 and 2005ish 'Stand parked next to one another today. I will say this: you could carry 3 friends with you comfortably in the M3 -- not so much with the 'Stang.

[Cookie Monster]

I love the new Stang. I would definitely take it over any of the two others (though the Challenger is nice). I like it more than the M3 as well.

[Nethead]

Motor Trend magazine just ranked all seven ponycars--what's that you say?  That would be:

The Mustang GT
The Mustang V6
The Challenger SRT8
The Challenger SE (V6)
The Genesis 3.8 (V6)
The Camaro SS
The Camaro RS (V6)

Magnificent Seven: We Rank All the Pony Cars
And We Drag Race Them, Too...
May 03, 2010 / By Ed Loh / Photography by Julia LaPalme, Brian Vance

One week after Ford's launch of the 2011 Mustang GT and V-6 we served up the world's first comparison test of the new 5.0 and its two top rivals -- the Chevrolet Camaro SS and Dodge Challenger SRT-8. One week later, we posted with another world exclusive -- the first ever four-way comparison of the 2011 Mustang V-6 versus the Camaro RS, Challenger SE and Hyundai Genesis 3.8.

It was a massive undertaking which took more than a dozen people two work weeks (and several weekends) to accomplish all of the testing, driving, photo- and videography. For the sake of efficiency, we executed both comparison tests at the same time, which meant corralling all seven of these modern day pony cars for hundreds of miles and several days on the road. We also pitted the V-8s and the V-6s against each other in separate quarter mile drag races (Click on the videos on each page to see who took home the titles).

After all was said and done, we thought it would be enlightening to have our seven main judges rank them all from first to last.

Shocked? You shouldn't be. That the new Mustang 5.0 stands alone atop the leader board is no surprise -- not only was it the runaway winner of the V-8 class, it was the only consensus pick amongst all seven. No less impressive is how high up the Hyundai Genesis 3.8 finished; it beat managed to beat the Challenger SRT8 on five of the seven judges scorecards, and soundly trounce everyone else for a solid second place.

So, the V-8 and V-6 comparison test winners each finish 1-2 overall; no surprise then that the second place finishers follow suit. Rounding out the podium is the loud and lovable Challenger SRT8, which was the judges pick for second place in the V-8 comparison. Second place in the V-6 "Hustle Cars" comparison is the Mustang V-6, which places fourth overall. Yup, no sign of the Camaro until you hit fifth place.

What gives? Well, first read each comparison test if you haven't already. Then, if you're still not convinced, check out a few more of the notes from our drivers' log books left on the cutting room floor:

"The SRT8's may be my favorite engine note of the bunch, if not in all of musclecardom. This engine is so smooth and tractable. It seems to have amazing thrust at all rpm, and it's so caramel-smooth. It's one very satisfying muscle car."
- Frank Markus

"I enjoyed the SS's engine and suspension balance, but it's no match against the GT. Shoots out of corners like a rocket and gets to illegal speeds aggressively. Camaro's value and performance can't beat 'Stang though."
- Nate Martinez

"Yeow! Absolutely the most fun of the six-cylinders on the mountain romp. Stirring six, with a delicious growl and lots of pull. Combined with the quick-throw shifter, this is a feast of a powertrain. I could've done that all day. Overall, an absolute blast to drive. Much as I like the new Mustang V-6, I vote Genesis Coupe for the win."
- Art St. Antoine

"Camaro has all the right bits and pieces but the packaging is wrong. Styling has grown old quickly -- the car looks cartoonish. Interior looks cheap, and it has by far one of the worst steering wheels and shift knobs I have ever held; both feel terrible in your hands."
- Scott Mortara

"The new 5.0-liter is a luscious V-8, with lovely sound, great power throughout, and torque down low. Feels equal parts muscular and refined. Snickety gearbox -- is this a Honda?! Love the positive action and short throws. Steering is light but linear and provides plenty of communication -- weights up nicely with speed. Overall, a remarkable achievement of blending muscle and finesse.
- Ron Kiino
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All seven judges picked the Mustang GT as number one.  No surprise there, which means the Mustang GT took an unchallenged first overall.

Five judges picked the Genesis as number two and two judges picked the Challenger SRT8 as number two.  The Genesis was picked as second overall.

Three judges picked the Mustang V6 as number three(!!!), two picked the Genesis as number three, one picked the Challenger SRT8 as number three, and one picked the Camaro SS as number three.  Nevertheless, the Challenger SRT8 was picked as third overall.

Three judges picked the Challenger SRT8 as number four, two picked the Mustang V6 as number four, and two picked the Camaro SS as number four.  The Mustang V6 was picked as fourth overall.

Three judges picked the Camaro SS as number five, two picked the Mustang V6 as number five, one picked the Challenger SRT8 as number five, and one picked the Camaro RS as number five.  The Camaro SS was picked as fifth overall.

Six judges picked the Camaro RS as number six and one picked the Challenger SE as number six.  The Camaro RS was picked as sixth overall.

Six judges picked the Challenger SE as number seven and one picked the Camaro SS as number seven.  The Challenger SE was picked as seventh overall.
 

[SVT666]

That's very interesting.  I wonder where the Challenger R/T would have finished.

[the Teuton]

My vote: Genesis 2.0T.

[SVT666]

My vote: Genesis 2.0T.

If it was included it would have been the second slowest car in the group.

[the Teuton]

If it was included it would have been the second slowest car in the group.

b00st.

Okay, fine, I'd take a Genesis 3.8 just as well.

[Nethead]

That's very interesting.  I wonder where the Challenger R/T would have finished.

Likely below the Challenger SRT8 and above the Camaro SS--that would be fourth, the position currently occupied by the Mustang V6.  That would be a real contest, since the SRT8 got two votes for second, one vote for third, and three votes for fourth.  The Mustang V6 got three votes for third and two votes for fourth.
 
The SRT8 took it six votes to five, so would the lesser-than-an-SRT8 Challenger R/T still offer enough to get at least the five votes needed to tie the Mustang for fourth?  This would be really hard to say--evidently the Mustang V6 finished just a little behind the SRT8 so the R/T would have to be breathing hard down the SRT8's neck to squeeze into that narrow gap between the SRT8's third overall finish and the Mustang V6's fourth overall.  As a sheer guess I suspect that there is a difference of more subtance between the SRT8 and the lesser R/T than there is between the SRT8 and the Mustang V6--but that's just a guess.  There's certainly a difference of a LOT of subtance between the SRT8 in third and the SE in seventh!  More likely, I think, would be the R/T battling it out with the Camaro SS for fifth overall.  In fact, has anyone seen a comparo of the Challenger R/T and the Camaro SS head-to-head?  That's probably a pretty close match... 

[r0tor]

My vote: Genesis 2.0T.

My vote: BMW 328i

[the Teuton]

My vote: BMW 328i

Fantastic car...if you keep it how a BMW is meant to be kept -- with a stick, the sport package, and RWD.

[Raza]

My vote: Genesis 2.0T.

I don't know what it is, but that engine just really can't move that car with conviction.  It doesn't feel quick and it feels a bit stodgy in the corners.  The V6 is the best way to buy a Genesis coupe. 

I'm waiting for them to put in the V8 from the sedan.

[MX793]

I don't know what it is, but that engine just really can't move that car with conviction.  It doesn't feel quick and it feels a bit stodgy in the corners.  The V6 is the best way to buy a Genesis coupe. 

I'm waiting for them to put in the V8 from the sedan.

You'll be waiting until they fully redesign the car.  Engine bay in the coupe is too small to fit the sedan's V8.

[565]

I don't know what it is, but that engine just really can't move that car with conviction.  It doesn't feel quick and it feels a bit stodgy in the corners.  The V6 is the best way to buy a Genesis coupe. 

I'm waiting for them to put in the V8 from the sedan.

They need to jam the new 2.0T from the new Sonata in there...274hp.

[the Teuton]

They need to jam the new 2.0T from the new Sonata in there...274hp.

Yeah, but that's still down 30 hp from the V6. Other than gas mileage, does the weight difference offset the power loss? Are there enough advantages to the GDI Turbo?

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, but that's still down 30 hp from the V6. Other than gas mileage, does the weight difference offset the power loss? Are there enough advantages to the GDI Turbo?

I thought the terbow and whatnot would make the 2.0T as heavy if not heavier than the 3.8?

[MX793]

I thought the terbow and whatnot would make the 2.0T as heavy if not heavier than the 3.8?

Turbos and associated plumbing aren't that heavy.  It's the iron blocks that are typical of a high output turbo 4 that makes them as heavy as an all aluminum V6.  However, more and more turbo motors are making due with aluminum blocks, so turbo 4s may end up being lighter than V6s.

[the Teuton]

I thought the terbow and whatnot would make the 2.0T as heavy if not heavier than the 3.8?

This is an interesting thought. I wonder what the truth of the matter is.

[sparkplug]

I remember when 400hp was insane for a production car. The only thing that approached those numbers were supercars. This is crazy. I like it......

[SVT666]

I remember when 400hp was insane for a production car. The only thing that approached those numbers were supercars. This is crazy. I like it......

The original Viper had 400 hp.

[SVT666]

Not only are the new Mustang and Camaro both more powerful then the original Viper and ZR-1 of the same era, but they are also quite a bit faster then both cars.