Inside Line tests new Audi RS5

[sportyaccordy]

For $100K, is it better than the E92???

http://www.insideline.com/audi/rs5/2011/2011-audi-rs5-first-drive.html

(CTK says no)

[r0tor]

oh god i've made a mess....

[the Teuton]

I guarantee the RS5 will start at $70k or less if it is sold in the US.

[r0tor]

yea... that $100k price is just way wacked out

$70-80k for sure

[sportyaccordy]

I still don't think I could get one over an M3

Maybe if they were the same price....

I commend Audi for keeping the weight relatively low though. The B5 S4 is not much (if at all) lighter than this beast

[Catman]

I can't get enough of the styling.  Awesome.

[Raza]

No manual, or is it just the press car that's auto?

[MX793]

No manual, or is it just the press car that's auto?

DSG only.  At the rate their going, the only Audi's left with a true stick in America are the A3 FWD and A4 Quattro (I see they're dropping the stick on the TT next year).

[Raza]

DSG only.  At the rate their going, the only Audi's left with a true stick in America are the A3 FWD and A4 Quattro (I see their dropping the stick on the TT next year).

That's a shame.

[Submariner]

DSG only.  At the rate their going, the only Audi's left with a true stick in America are the A3 FWD and A4 Quattro (I see they're dropping the stick on the TT next year).

Fail.

If I were in the market for either of these cars, I'd pick the M3 by default. 

[GoCougs]

You're going to need lightening quick shifts and seven speeds to take full advantage of such a high-strung motor. This car would suffer with a traditional 6sp M/T.

[Onslaught]

I like the looks of it but not the front grille.

[Tave]

You're going to need lightening quick shifts and seven speeds to take full advantage of such a high-strung motor. This car would suffer with a traditional 6sp M/T.

I think "suffer" is a bit of an exaggeration. People seem to enjoy the manual in the M3, which has just as high-strung a motor as the Audi. You may lose a fraction of a second on the 0-60 run, but who cares?


I'm not sure what the "high-strung" has to do with it, anyway, as performance engines with high redlines have traditionally been paired with manuals, while the lower-reving, torque monsters generally get autos.

[Raza]

I think "suffer" is a bit of an exaggeration. People seem to enjoy the manual in the M3, which has just as high-strung a motor as the Audi. You may lose a fraction of a second on the 0-60 run, but who cares?


I'm not sure what the "high-strung" has to do with it, anyway, as performance engines with high redlines have traditionally been paired with manuals, while the lower-reving, torque monsters generally get autos.

And there's also option C, which is "I don't live on a racetrack so gaining fractions of a second against a stopwatch isn't worth the sacrifice of involvement and fun involved in owning a manual transmission car because I prefer driving stick".  Some people, like me, just like driving stick and always will, even when they make a 247,010 speed dodeca-clutch manual that shifts so fast it's actually negative time. 

[Payman]

And there's also option C, which is "I don't live on a racetrack so gaining fractions of a second against a stopwatch isn't worth the sacrifice of involvement and fun involved in owning a manual transmission car because I prefer driving stick".  Some people, like me, just like driving stick and always will, even when they make a 247,010 speed dodeca-clutch manual that shifts so fast it's actually negative time. 

Big +1.

[GoCougs]

I think "suffer" is a bit of an exaggeration. People seem to enjoy the manual in the M3, which has just as high-strung a motor as the Audi. You may lose a fraction of a second on the 0-60 run, but who cares?

I'm not sure what the "high-strung" has to do with it, anyway, as performance engines with high redlines have traditionally been paired with manuals, while the lower-reving, torque monsters generally get autos.

Then why isn't Audi offering a traditional M/T, and to a greater extent, that Ferrari and Lamborghini have all but eliminated traditional M/T, and all sorts of races bodies (WRC, F1, etc.) left traditional M/T in the dust long ago? Are people lazy? Is it a fad?

This is the answer. This car would suffer profoundly with a traditional M/T. Lower inertia/flat-plane crank engine = quick rev drop off. 6-7 gears = very little time spent in each gear. High RPM range = low gearing (RPM mismatching = lots of herky jerky motions). It's more than about just a few tenths 0-60.

The quickest, highest strung vehicles in the world (F1 and pro drag racers) are almost exclusively either A/T or DSG/auto clutch, and lowest strung vehicles in the world (big rigs) are almost exclusively M/T.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Then why isn't Audi offering a traditional M/T, and to a greater extent, that Ferrari and Lamborghini have all but eliminated traditional M/T, and all sorts of races bodies (WRC, F1, etc.) left traditional M/T in the dust long ago? Are people lazy? Is it a fad?

This is the answer. This car would suffer profoundly with a traditional M/T. Lower inertia/flat-plane crank engine = quick rev drop off. 6-7 gears = very little time spent in each gear. High RPM range = low gearing (RPM mismatching = lots of herky jerky motions). It's more than about just a few tenths 0-60.

The quickest, highest strung vehicles in the world (F1 and pro drag racers) are almost exclusively either A/T or DSG/auto clutch, and lowest strung vehicles in the world (big rigs) are almost exclusively M/T.

Pffffffffft... I can shift the Swift faster than that.

[Submariner]

Then why isn't Audi offering a traditional M/T, and to a greater extent, that Ferrari and Lamborghini have all but eliminated traditional M/T, and all sorts of races bodies (WRC, F1, etc.) left traditional M/T in the dust long ago? Are people lazy? Is it a fad?

This is the answer. This car would suffer profoundly with a traditional M/T. Lower inertia/flat-plane crank engine = quick rev drop off. 6-7 gears = very little time spent in each gear. High RPM range = low gearing (RPM mismatching = lots of herky jerky motions). It's more than about just a few tenths 0-60.

The quickest, highest strung vehicles in the world (F1 and pro drag racers) are almost exclusively either A/T or DSG/auto clutch, and lowest strung vehicles in the world (big rigs) are almost exclusively M/T.

-sigh-

We understand that for a race situation, there is no replacement for a DSG.  If tenths of seconds make or break you, such speed is required.

On the other hand, some people enjoy shifting gears.  It's that simple.  If you're not interested in speed as much as you are in the tactile feel of the car, than maybe you would take a 6-speed over, say, a faster vehicle.

As it stands, I'd probably take a 6-speed F430 over the auto 458.  But Jesus Christ, I'd need to experience a 0-60 MPH blast in that car...my lord it's fast. 

[GoCougs]

-sigh-

We understand that for a race situation, there is no replacement for a DSG.  If tenths of seconds make or break you, such speed is required.

On the other hand, some people enjoy shifting gears.  It's that simple.  If you're not interested in speed as much as you are in the tactile feel of the car, than maybe you would take a 6-speed over, say, a faster vehicle.

As it stands, I'd probably take a 6-speed F430 over the auto 458.  But Jesus Christ, I'd need to experience a 0-60 MPH blast in that car...my lord it's fast. 

Like I said, ultimate quickness is only a small part of it. For example, you physically can't modulate the throttle fast enough with your foot to click off those rev matching downshifts. Just look at some of those downshifting sequences. The end result is either no rev matching and herky jerky chassis-upsetting and maybe even rear wheel-locking downshifts, or very, very slow down shifting. These cars, and their engines and drive trains, were designed from the ground up to be DSG.

[Tave]

Then why isn't Audi offering a traditional M/T, and to a greater extent, that Ferrari and Lamborghini have all but eliminated traditional M/T,

Because customers don't buy them, which is incidental to the micro-performance gains. Most of the people buying these cars are old fogeys who never let them loose in any event.


LOL. Did you just compare a F1 racecar to a semi truck?

I'm talking about logical comparisons, like a BMW M5 to a MB E55 AMG. The requirements of F1 cars are fundamentally different from the requirements of street legal performance cars. And although a semi truck may be street legal, there is nothing remotely related to sport driving about it.





Now I've answered your question, but you haven't answered mine. If these high strung motors "suffer" so much when they're attached to MT, why does BMW offer a manual in the new M3 (at similar specs to this RS5), and why do people enjoy it so much?

[Onslaught]

Because customers don't buy them, which is incidental to the micro-performance gains. Most of the people buying these cars are old fogeys who never let them loose in any event.

Or rich people who only buy cars like these to show off. I recall many an NFL player in town driving around in Ferrari 360's years ago and grinding gears all over downtown trying to just show off. It was painfully obvious they couldn't drive a stick. I'm sure they'd love having one that did the work for you.

In the end I'm not going to have any of these cars so I don't give a shit what comes in them. But I just hope it take a very long time before it's the norm for the kinds of cars I will be buying in the future.

[nickdrinkwater]

Manuals are about having fun, not numbers, which appears to be lost on Cougs unsurprisingly.  I presume it's just in the US where the 6MT TT will be discontinued?

[GoCougs]

Because customers don't buy them, which is incidental to the micro-performance gains. Most of the people buying these cars are old fogeys who never let them loose in any event.

LOL. Did you just compare a F1 racecar to a semi truck?

I'm talking about logical comparisons, like a BMW M5 to a MB E55 AMG. The requirements of F1 cars are fundamentally different from the requirements of street legal performance cars. And although a semi truck may be street legal, there is nothing remotely related to sport driving about it.

Now I've answered your question, but you haven't answered mine. If these high strung motors "suffer" so much when they're attached to MT, why does BMW offer a manual in the new M3 (at similar specs to this RS5), and why do people enjoy it so much?

Oh, Tave. I'm shocked - you're usually so much better than to deploy the diversion tactic. Sure, some people may like the M3 w/traditional manual transmission but I bet that more people are buying DSG than M/T.

Sorry, guys, if you think it's about "micro" improvements in performance you're simply wrong. That video should tell you all you need to know.

As the years march on fewer and fewer cars will be available with traditional M/T - it's already full-on in the mid-tier performance marquess - Porsche and Audi, and to a lesser Extent M-B and BMW. Within the next 3-7 years Fords and Subarus will have 'em too.

[Tave]

Oh, Tave. I'm shocked - you're usually so much better than to deploy the diversion tactic. Sure, some people may like the M3 w/traditional manual transmission but I bet that more people are buying DSG than M/T.

No shit.

Then why isn't Audi offering a traditional M/T, and to a greater extent, that Ferrari and Lamborghini have all but eliminated traditional M/T,

Because customers don't buy them,

Once again, this has very little to do with how much the owners plan to exploit the upper-limits of the car's potential, because as we all know, very few of the owners actually do that. They buy them for the same reason they always have: it's a luxury/convenience/etc...



Now, before you accuse me of "diversion," I'd like to point out that you have "diverted" the issue for a second time in a row. Why do those "some people" like the traditional manual in the M3 if the car "suffers" for it? That's not rational.

[Galaxy]

DSG only.  At the rate their going, the only Audi's left with a true stick in America are the A3 FWD and A4 Quattro (I see they're dropping the stick on the TT next year).

The S4 also has  a manual in the US.

[Minpin]

This is the answer

I can't find an other video of the 458 that sounds remotely like this...

And since that guys other videos consist of video games and unboxing video games I am leery.

[Tave]

Interesting to note that in the video, the manettino is dialed to "race," which you're not even supposed to use on the street.

[Galaxy]

I can't find an other video of the 458 that sounds remotely like this...

That does sound suspiciously like an F1 engine. One can also hear that harsh scratching sound that sounds like the old F1 traction control. Plus something is bothering me about the way that builds speed. By my count it did 200-290 in like 4 seconds...

[r0tor]

I still find some people's fascination with a 3rd pedal halarious.... real joyful driving is about so much more then the clutch.  Hell, when I'm out on a joy ride through some back roads my car is left in 2nd gear and I just work the rev range....

[Tave]

One final point: the engine in the RS4 is sourced from the R8 which, surprise surprise, comes with a 6spd manual standard.