Spied: Dodge considering Challenger SRT10 production?

[hotrodalex]

Vipers sound cool when the exhaust goes through a couple of turbos. Fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENdrB9c6gyE

Not bad.

[giant_mtb]

Dewd, it's a truck engine.  It's complete trash.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Dewd, it's a truck engine.  It's complete trash.

A4 engines are truck engines

[the Teuton]

A4 engines are truck engines

Too peaky.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Too peaky.

The torque curve on that little turbo four is probably fatter than the Viper V10

[giant_mtb]

Too peaky.

Wut.

[the Teuton]

Joke?

[giant_mtb]

Joke?

A4 takes no jokes.

(I knew you were joking)

[Eye of the Tiger]

Joke?

No, a joke is putting a Cavalier engine in a truck. Oh, snap.

[the Teuton]

No, a joke is putting a Cavalier engine in a truck. Oh, snap.

Can't imagine what kind of *SNEEZE Sonoma* truck would have a Cavalier engine in it. That would be half-retarded.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Can't imagine what kind of *SNEEZE Sonoma* truck would have a Cavalier engine in it. That would be half-retarded.

Today, I ate a delicious Sonoma Burger at the Cheesecake Factory, and later went to Williams and Sonoma and viewed quality kitchen items. Sonoma appears to be a name associated with fine things.

[omicron]

Fucking great. Now try building a decent midsize sedan.

+1. And why no production Demon? What a fantastic little car that would have been!

[GoCougs]

If we're going to be on the same side of an argument, stop doing that. 

Better than I returning the favor of insulting and calling names, no? Now that he knows he is wrong he can undertake the journey to correctness.

[Payman]

Better than I returning the favor of insulting and calling names, no? Now that he knows he is wrong he can undertake the journey to correctness.

It's irritating. Tell him why you think he's wrong. Otherwise you come across like the little kid that goes nya-nya-nya-NYA-nya...

[GoCougs]

It's irritating. Tell him why you think he's wrong. Otherwise you come across like the little kid that goes nya-nya-nya-NYA-nya...

Yes, that was kinda the idea; with the desired outcome being he searches for the answers himself. Plus, I get sick and tired of his insults and name calling. But, in being the nice and gracious guy that I am, I will play ball:

So SVT666:

First, I never make stuff up. Second, when an engine's peak torque RPM and peak power RPM are separated by less than 1,000 rpm, one know it's a peaky engine. Third, virtually no N/A gasoline engine has 80% of its peak torque available at 1,200 rpm - you'd be be hard-pressed to find that even with forced induction.

[3.0L V6]

Yes, that was kinda the idea; with the desired outcome being he searches for the answers himself. Plus, I get sick and tired of his insults and name calling. But, in being the nice and gracious guy that I am, I will play ball:

So SVT666:

First, I never make stuff up. Second, when an engine's peak torque RPM and peak power RPM are separated by less than 1,000 rpm, one know it's a peaky engine. Third, virtually no N/A gasoline engine has 80% of its peak torque available at 1,200 rpm - you'd be be hard-pressed to find that even with forced induction.

I know this dyno graph only starts measuring at 3000rpm - but the torque curve seems relatively flat, as the engine is producing almost 500lb-ft of torque from 3000rpm to 6300rpm.

[SVT666]

Yes, that was kinda the idea; with the desired outcome being he searches for the answers himself. Plus, I get sick and tired of his insults and name calling. But, in being the nice and gracious guy that I am, I will play ball:

So SVT666:

First, I never make stuff up. Second, when an engine's peak torque RPM and peak power RPM are separated by less than 1,000 rpm, one know it's a peaky engine. Third, virtually no N/A gasoline engine has 80% of its peak torque available at 1,200 rpm - you'd be be hard-pressed to find that even with forced induction.

Yeah, when I typed 1,200 RPM I was thinking of the fact that it only turns 1,200 RPM at 60 mph in 6th gear.  But 80% of it's torque is available at a really low RPM (below 3000 RPM), and all you have to do is go look at any dyno graph of any stock Viper to see that.

[MX793]

I know this dyno graph only starts measuring at 3000rpm - but the torque curve seems relatively flat, as the engine is producing almost 500lb-ft of torque from 3000rpm to 6300rpm.

If you look at raw numbers, it wouldn't appear "peaky", but you need to normalize with respect to the peak value to truly determine how peaky a motor is.  "Flatness" generally assumes it produces some high percentage of peak over a broad spread (90% is a common reference).  If we use the 90% metric, the torque spread goes from 3950 to 6050.  2100 RPM out of a total usable rev range of ~6000 RPM (assuming it idles at around 300) means you're at 90+% peak torque over 35% of the band.  That's actually fairly peaky.

For comparison, let's look at a decidedly peaky motor:  the 180 hp 1.8 from the last Toyota Celica (http://image.importtuner.com/f/8359668/0212it_ppcelica03_zoom.jpg).  The Celica made 90% of its peak torque in two spots on its powerband, rather than in a continuous stretch.  There was an 800 RPM stretch from 3500 to 4300 rpm, and then another stretch from 6100 to 7750.  That's a combined 2450 RPM from a car with a 7500 rpm band, or 32.6% (not much narrower than the Viper).

In contrast, the 2.0T in the VW GTI makes 90+% peak torque from about 1500 rpm to 5700 RPM.  Redline is at 6200 rpm and, assuming an idle of around 300 rpm, that gets you a 4200 RPM torque spread out of a 5900 RPM usable band, or 71% of the band.  Very flat.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yes, that was kinda the idea; with the desired outcome being he searches for the answers himself. Plus, I get sick and tired of his insults and name calling. But, in being the nice and gracious guy that I am, I will play ball:

So SVT666:

First, I never make stuff up. Second, when an engine's peak torque RPM and peak power RPM are separated by less than 1,000 rpm, one know it's a peaky engine. Third, virtually no N/A gasoline engine has 80% of its peak torque available at 1,200 rpm - you'd be be hard-pressed to find that even with forced induction.

You made up that part about not making stuff up.

[93JC]

Third, virtually no N/A gasoline engine has 80% of its peak torque available at 1,200 rpm - you'd be be hard-pressed to find that even with forced induction.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Cougs never makes stuff up!

[Submariner]

Cougs never makes stuff up!

Swift!

[the Teuton]

Swift!

Russ Feingold!

[GoCougs]

Yeah, when I typed 1,200 RPM I was thinking of the fact that it only turns 1,200 RPM at 60 mph in 6th gear.  But 80% of it's torque is available at a really low RPM (below 3000 RPM), and all you have to do is go look at any dyno graph of any stock Viper to see that.

Perhaps if you were concentrated in addressing the subject matter of my posts instead of taking shots at me perhaps you'd make fewer mistakes.

1200 rpm is a different universe than 3000 rpm however. Remember, I specifically said it's a peaky engine, not that it didn't make a lot of torque; less than 1000 rpm between peak power RPM and peak torque RPM defines "peaky," which is relative to the total torque output of the engine, not the absolute torque ouput; meaning that it makes x torque at 3000 RPM doesn't mean it still isn't peaky.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Perhaps if you were concentrated in addressing the subject matter of my posts instead of taking shots at me perhaps you'd make fewer mistakes.

1200 rpm is a different universe than 3000 rpm however. Remember, I specifically said it's a peaky engine, not that it didn't make a lot of torque; less than 1000 rpm between peak power RPM and peak torque RPM defines "peaky," which is relative to the total torque output of the engine, not the absolute torque ouput; meaning that it makes x torque at 3000 RPM doesn't mean it still isn't peaky.

Swift.

[Payman]

Swift!

[Onslaught]

I like the young blond Swift more.

[the Teuton]

I like the young blond Swift more.

[ChrisV]

Perhaps if you were concentrated in addressing the subject matter of my posts instead of taking shots at me perhaps you'd make fewer mistakes.  meaning that it makes x torque at 3000 RPM doesn't mean it still isn't peaky.

I'm so goddamn tired of you and your armchair engineering with the ONLY experience you have being with some beater old Camaro.

You don't know shit. DRIVE a goddamn Viper sometime. It's not "peaky" at all. In fact it's about as far from peaky as a performance car engine gets.





Almost 400 lb ft of torque at 1800 rpm, and it varies only about 100 lb ft from there all the way to over 6k rpm. While not 80% of it's torque, it still makes close to 75% of it's torque just off idle. As far as what you feel, that bitch is flat from off idle to redline. If you actually DROVE one, you'd fucking know.

Cougs, STFU. Better yet, leave the fucking site until you actualy learn something other than how to be the worlds most ignorant troll outside of Les Vipers.

Jesus this is turning into one of the DUMBEST car sites around with your incessant bullshit spewing.

[Rich]

I'm so goddamn tired of you and your armchair engineering with the ONLY experience you have being with some beater old Camaro.

You don't know shit. DRIVE a goddamn Viper sometime. It's not "peaky" at all. In fact it's about as far from peaky as a performance car engine gets.

Almost 400 lb ft of torque at 1800 rpm, and it varies only about 100 lb ft from there all the way to over 6k rpm. While not 80% of it's torque, it still makes close to 75% of it's torque just off idle. As far as what you feel, that bitch is flat from off idle to redline. If you actually DROVE one, you'd fucking know.

Cougs, STFU. Better yet, leave the fucking site until you actualy learn something other than how to be the worlds most ignorant troll outside of Les Vipers.

Jesus this is turning into one of the DUMBEST car sites around with your incessant bullshit spewing.

Hey, seriously, stop with the attacks, you look ridiculous.