The Mazda6 thread

[hotrodalex]

It's still roughly the same size as a circa 2002 Accord. I dunno, a family of five could fit in one, albeit not too comfortably.

I can easily fit 4 people in mine, with six footers in both the front and back. Having 5 is more of a squeeze, but almost all cars are like that.

[Madman]

Oh look, it's the Mazda Camry!

Interesting how Mazda's misguided attempt at chasing volume resulted in a bigger, fatter, softer and massively uglier 6 which failed miserably in the US market.  I see plenty of old ones but I think I've only ever seen one new 6 on the road.  Why does every car company think they have to be all things to all people?  A non-sporty Mazda makes about as much sense as a Porsche SUV.  Oh, wait a minute..........

Mazda will never be as big a Toyota and that's not a bad thing.  Toyota got to be as big as it is by flogging reliable but mediocre crap at people who don't give a shit about cars.  Mazda needs to understand that by trying to be all things to all people they will inevitably become nothing to nobody.  Toyota already has the car-as-an-appliance market covered.  I say let them have it.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Oh look, it's the Mazda Camry!

Interesting how Mazda's misguided attempt at chasing volume resulted in a bigger, fatter, softer and massively uglier 6 which failed miserably in the US market.  I see plenty of old ones but I think I've only ever seen one new 6 on the road.  Why does every car company think they have to be all things to all people?  A non-sporty Mazda makes about as much sense as a Porsche SUV.  Oh, wait a minute..........

Mazda will never be as big a Toyota and that's not a bad thing.  Toyota got to be as big as it is by flogging reliable but mediocre crap at people who don't give a shit about cars.  Mazda needs to understand that by trying to be all things to all people they will inevitably become nothing to nobody.  Toyota already has the car-as-an-appliance market covered.  I say let them have it.

I'd hardly call the new 6 an appliance. I think it's one of the best looking midsizers out there.

Here's the tough sell and the point I think ifcar has made in his reviews of the Suzuki Kizashi. Why are you going to pay a premium for a car that is really not that much bigger than a compact? You can get a car for several thousand less that is just as roomy and just as sport if not sportier that gets better fuel economy.

The question then becomes is the extra cost worth it in terms of quality, features, etc? For whatever reason, Americans value size in their vehicles. Most people who like cars do not really prioritize size of vehicles, but functionality and performance instead. Unfortunately, this is not the majority of the US consumer. Size is a big selling point especially when you compare apples to apples.

People here will spend an extra dollar just to get 10 extra jars of jelly. There is this overall obsession with value and when you comparing midsize cars, you are not overly concerned about performance and weight. You are more concerned about size, quietness, and ride quality. For whatever reason, that is what the MARKET has said despite our most impressive arguments to the contrary.

It's the old sell.

Let's say I offered you two jars of peanut butter. One comes in 16 oz and the other comes in 24 oz. The jar that is 24 oz has hydrogenated vegetable oil and made from non organic peanuts while the jar that is 16 oz is a higher quality product with organic peanuts and no hydrogenated vegetable oil. Both are priced equally so which is chosen by the majority of consumers?

The 24 oz jar. Why? More bang for the buck. For the same price, I am getting 33% more product. For whatever reason, consumers are obsessed with value as opposed to quality of product.

But say quality is even closer to even and both jars are priced equally. Most people will opt for more as opposed to less. It's just the way it is.

The idea for any company is to reinforce their profitability. Mazda is doing just that with the new 6. They are following the market demand while trying to create a unique product in the market place. The 6 is a decent attempt at that.

If you want some old 6 flavor, there is the Suzuki Kizashi out there for you to play with and soon it will be available with a higher performance engine and a hybrid for those eco lovers.

Here's my guess. Midsize cars will hit a breaking point size wise because fuel economy is more important at this point. Demand is higher for more fuel efficient cars and size is a direct obstacle to that goal. Americans really do not want to pay an extra 10k for a hybrid. They want a regular gasoline engine that can get 30+ mpg. This is where I see the midsize market going in the next few years. It will become a fuel economy war over the next decade.

[r0tor]

The larger 6 is selling much worse then the first gen.  Mazda buyers are not the typical "bigger is better" buyer.  Mazda North America completely missed that point just like the introduction of the first generation 6 which had commercials for a racey V6 with a manual and sport package and the only thing sitting on dealer lots were base model 4 bangers that dealers had to actually put on a wing and some aero pieces just to get off the lot.

If I'm spending $25k and can choose from a smaller car that will fit me needs sizewise or a much larger one, I'm going to take the smaller one because it will be (generally) better equipped, easier to drive/park, and have (generally) better dynamics.  I am a typical Mazda buyer and not a typical toyota buyer.

[Byteme]

The larger 6 is selling much worse then the first gen.  Mazda buyers are not the typical "bigger is better" buyer.  Mazda North America completely missed that point just like the introduction of the first generation 6 which had commercials for a racey V6 with a manual and sport package and the only thing sitting on dealer lots were base model 4 bangers that dealers had to actually put on a wing and some aero pieces just to get off the lot.

When I bought my 07 6 in June 07 I had to look high and low for a red 5 speed 2.3L 4 cyl, with the value package (I think that's what it was called) without a spoiler.  the one I bought had sat on the lot for 7 months, build date of October 06.  I paid about $15,500 for it and they threw in window tinting.  they wanted to move it. 

[ifcar]

What Mazda has tried to do is reach out beyond "Mazda customers." There just weren't all that many of them buying 6es, which went in a big way to rental fleets. Mazda customers can buy a 3, others can buy a 6.

What's been lost from the Mazda lineup is the V6 manual, but that never sold anyway.

[r0tor]

Mazda customers can buy a 3, others can buy a 6.

Your saying the old 6 was too small for a family, and at the same time you expect a family that wants a sporty midsize sedan to jump into a 3???

[r0tor]

What Mazda has tried to do is reach out beyond "Mazda customers."

Beyond "Mazda customers" is...
"Toyota Customers" like yourself that love a boring vehicle - which Mazda doesn't fit
"Buy American" customers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Premium" customers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Euro Snob" Sustomers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Truck" customers which mazda doesn't fit/...

[ifcar]

Your saying the old 6 was too small for a family, and at the same time you expect a family that wants a sporty midsize sedan to jump into a 3???

The two were too close together.

Beyond "Mazda customers" is...
"Toyota Customers" like yourself that love a boring vehicle - which Mazda doesn't fit
"Buy American" customers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Premium" customers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Euro Snob" Sustomers which Mazda doesn't fit...
"Truck" customers which mazda doesn't fit/...

No, the Honda Accord/Nissan Altima customer: a family sedan that's marginally sportier than the Camry without major sacrifices. Those are the precise competitors for the current Mazda6.

[r0tor]

Honda attracts the same folks as Toyota...
Altima sells no better then the 6...

[ifcar]

Honda attracts the same folks as Toyota...

In some cases, yes. But nearly every Honda has tighter handling than a comparable Toyota, and that no doubt matters to many customers.

Altima sells no better then the 6...

I suggest you take a good long look at the sales numbers and get back to me on that suggestion.

[r0tor]

I suggest you take a good long look at the sales numbers and get back to me on that suggestion.

Keep in mind Mazda use to be able to sell 60k Mazda 6's in the US...

[ifcar]

Keep in mind Mazda use to be able to sell 60k Mazda 6's in the US...

A lot of things in the market have changed. But nothing that suggests they had no reason to want to chase the Altima's 200k+ annual volume.

Basically, instead of building another niche car, Mazda built a better Altima, a better Accord. Yes, that's not the car that will appeal to all the same crowd as the old Mazda6, but that doesn't make it a worse automobile.

[r0tor]

Basically, instead of building another niche car, Mazda built a better Altima, a better Accord.

And yet, it sells not even a tenth of the cars they do or half as good as the old one... by trying to do something for everyone, it does nothing for anyone

[ifcar]

And yet, it sells not even a tenth of the cars they do or half as good as the old one... by trying to do something for everyone, it does nothing for anyone

No...it does exactly what the Accord and Altima do, better. Mazda has a smaller dealer network and minimal advertising, and does sell at more than a tenth of the Altima volume.

But here are the two flaws in your sales-based logic:

-Virtually every car's sales are down since the era of the previous-gen Mazda6.
-If sales figures determine whether a car is good, the Camry is the best car ever.

You can try to argue that Mazda miscalculated on the new 6, certainly, though a sales decline since 2007 doesn't prove that. But that doesn't make it a bad car, which is what you've been insisting.

[GoCougs]

Mazda made the right call on the new 6 for wanting a larger piece of the CamCord market. The previous 6 was simply outclassed for that endeavor.

[Byteme]

No...it does exactly what the Accord and Altima do, better. Mazda has a smaller dealer network and minimal advertising, and does sell at more than a tenth of the Altima volume.

But here are the two flaws in your sales-based logic:

-Virtually every car's sales are down since the era of the previous-gen Mazda6.
-If sales figures determine whether a car is good, the Camry is the best car ever.

You can try to argue that Mazda miscalculated on the new 6, certainly, though a sales decline since 2007 doesn't prove that. But that doesn't make it a bad car, which is what you've been insisting.

That depends on your definition of bad.  If the new Mazda6 costs Mazda market share and doesn't make as much for the company as the previous model it's not as good a car as the previous version.  Not from a practicality or driving dynamics standpoint but from a product standpoint.

[ifcar]

That depends on your definition of bad.  If the new Mazda6 costs Mazda market share and doesn't make as much for the company as the previous model it's not as good a car as the previous version.  Not from a practicality or driving dynamics standpoint but from a product standpoint.

I don't review cars from an automaker perspective, but from a consumer perspective. In fact, the best deals are often on cars that aren't doing well for the automaker.

[Madman]

No, the Honda Accord/Nissan Altima customer: a family sedan that's marginally sportier than the Camry without major sacrifices. Those are the precise competitors for the current Mazda6.

Accord and Altima are sporty?    They're both as stodgy and dull as the Camry!

[2o6]

Accord and Altima are sporty?    They're both as stodgy and dull as the Camry!

Drive them.



Besides, the 6 was simply too small. Why pay midsize money for a compact car?

[ifcar]

Accord and Altima are sporty?    They're both as stodgy and dull as the Camry!

Yes, we all know you think all mainstream cars are the same.

[Madman]

Yes, we all know you think all mainstream cars are the same.

You mean they're not? 

[Onslaught]

Mazda made the right call on the new 6 for wanting a larger piece of the CamCord market. The previous 6 was simply outclassed for that endeavor.

Then why did the old small one sell MUCH better? The last time Mazda wanted to go after Honda/Toyota they got their butt's kicked and Ford got their claws deeper into them. They need to make the kinds of cars they're known for.

[2o6]

As ifcar said, the 6 was a fleet queen.

[Onslaught]

As ifcar said, the 6 was a fleet queen.

We sold way more first gens to normal people and can't give the new ones away. It's true that things have changed in the last few years but other cars sell well.

I don't think the new 6 is a bad car. I just don't think that it's a good Mazda.

[r0tor]

That depends on your definition of bad.  If the new Mazda6 costs Mazda market share and doesn't make as much for the company as the previous model it's not as good a car as the previous version.  Not from a practicality or driving dynamics standpoint but from a product standpoint.

Not to mention is cost them a boatload to redesign a North American spec rather then using the world car (which would have sold better IMO)

[CALL_911]

Accord and Altima are sporty?    They're both as stodgy and dull as the Camry!

You know what I never understood about you? You bitch and whine about how much mainstreamers are boring, but you're an avid Volvo fan. What gives? Volvos freaking DEFINE mundane and dull.

[Onslaught]

You know what I never understood about you? You bitch and whine about how much mainstreamers are boring, but you're an avid Volvo fan. What gives? Volvos freaking DEFINE mundane and dull.

You find a shoe box boring?

[CALL_911]

You find a shoe box boring?

Ah, crap, good point. No, I do not.

[Onslaught]

Ah, crap, good point. No, I do not.

Well I do. They put me to sleep almost as fast as a Volvo.