David vs. Goliath

[Rupert]

That's pretty much a Mini track, yeah.

[Tave]

While some sections favor MINI's go-kart handling, others set Porsche's 385 horses loose.

"Others?" I count one--maybe one and a half.

[TBR]

That track pretty clearly favors agility over power.

[Rich]

go mini go

[565]

Personally I think the Mini won't win, even on that course.  Porsche should just put a good driver in a 911S and end this.

Honestly that course doesn't seem that much tighter than alot of autocross set ups, and it's not like Mini's blow everything away there.

Plus I can't really think of any situation where the Mini has enough of an advantage.  I thought the one place where the Mini could have an advantage was turning radius, but it doesn't even have an advantage there.

In terms of wheelbase, the 911 is actually much shorter, a 92.5in wheel base compared to the Mini's 97.1 inches.

That wheelbase advantage allows the 911 to actually beat the Mini's turning radius while having wider front tires.  The Mini's turning radius 35.1 feet, versus 34.8 for the Porsche.

Everyone thinks that super tight slow corners would favor the Mini's.  But I actually think that is where it will be the weakest.  I don't claim to be some sort of autocross expert, but from the very few autocrosses I've been to, I see the Mini's doing rather well for their class in the transitions and in places where you could use its narrow width to full advantage.  It's weakness is where all front wheel drive cars are weak, putting down power out of slow corners on full lock.  There is where the traction of the 911 will really pull ahead.  Though it is hard to compare because stock 997's are rare to see at autocross, because they don't dominate their class (and thus not a tool of choice), and the Mini's do dominate their class, so they are super common.

I think by the new SCCA rules, the 997.2 S is Super Stock (SS), and the Mini S is D stock.

http://scca.com/documents/resultfiles/Wendover%20Pro%20Results4.pdf

I mean this is just a recent sample of what usually happens.  The Mini's do well in their D class, but they are still a few seconds off the fastest laps of S stock.  

Another recent event

http://scca.com/documents/resultfiles/Wendover%20Results3.pdf

The Mini's are bit closer to S stock's number this time, but still a couple seconds off.

Remember this is all pretty much stock cars on racing slicks (to level the playing field on tires).  I don't know what tires Mini will be bringing to the event, but assuming it's bone stock tires too, the Porsche has the added advantage of stickier tires.

[Rupert]

I agree. It's not like the 911 isn't a nimble car. I think that the course they set up favors the Mini, but I still think the 911 would win.

[68_427]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/21/shocker-porsche-911-beats-mini-cooper-in-race-at-road-atlant/

[BimmerM3]

So then they're using the kart track at the south side of the real track (near turns 6 and 7)...

Yes. I've actually driven on that figure 8 and skid pad.

[Rich]

well that blows.  oh well

[the Teuton]

The Mini is still one hell of a fun car. If you were expecting it to win, you were kidding yourself. But for the money, there aren't more than a handful of cars that can match it for style, sportiness, and fun.

[Submariner]

My girlfriend has been considering purchasing a Cooper S...unfortunately, I have been only dreaming about buying a 911 S. 

[the Teuton]

My girlfriend has been considering purchasing a Cooper S...unfortunately, I have been only dreaming about buying a 911 S.  

My pick of the litter would have to be a first generation Cooper S with the JCW upgrade kit. That was before BMW made it a factory option. It was a bit more hardcore. And it had a real LSD.

[Submariner]

My pick of the litter would have to be a first generation Cooper S with the JCW upgrade kit. That was before BMW made it a factory option. It was a bit more hardcore. And it had a real LSD.

Right now, I'm just happy she want's one with a stick. 

But, if pricing would allow it, I would absolutely steer her in that direction. 

[the Teuton]

Right now, I'm just happy she want's one with a stick. 

But, if pricing would allow it, I would absolutely steer her in that direction. 

They're not the most reliable cars on earth. Be aware of that fact.

[Laconian]

Stupid stupid stupid. The obvious outcome occurred. Lame, contrived PR.

[Rich]

Stupid stupid stupid. The obvious outcome occurred. Lame, contrived PR.

This is a lot more fun than if they spent money on some new commercial

[Laconian]

This is a lot more fun than if they spent money on some new commercial

Maybe. Corporate "viral" ad campaigns tend to backfire on me, anyways.

[Submariner]

They're not the most reliable cars on earth. Be aware of that fact.

I'm aware - her Saab hasn't been the most reliable vehicle either, though thankfully, most problems have come mostly from annoying but harmless electronic issues, and nothing mechanical. 

[Raza]

I'm aware - her Saab hasn't been the most reliable vehicle either, though thankfully, most problems have come mostly from annoying but harmless electronic issues, and nothing mechanical. 

The turbo is going to be better for her to drive in every single way.  It's bigger, more comfortable, more powerful, and definitely more reliable.  I'd prefer they stuck the turbo in the old Mini body, but since that isn't happening, the new shape Mini is the one to get.  While the older one may handle better, the new one is almost as good, and if you want to make it more hardcore, you always can.