Harvard study says Obama seeks $7 a gal. gas

[ifcar]

Wim

Avg West European = 5 7 140 lbs

Avg American = 5 10 210 lbs

Plus little Polos and shit can't legitimately carry 4 adults and their luggage.

I agree that American cars are too big, but I think something a subcompact is too small. If you guys weren't taxed to death there would be no market for cars like the A-Class

I don't know about that. There's certainly a market for subcompact hatchbacks in dense urban parts of the US, and more of Europe's population is in dense urban areas than ours. That's a population that not only may desire a smaller car for ease of use, but may also not rely on a car for as much of its transportation needs.

If Europe's gas prices were like ours, you'd certainly see more big cars. But there would also still be plenty of little ones.

[Onslaught]

I don't know about that. There's certainly a market for subcompact hatchbacks in dense urban parts of the US, and more of Europe's population is in dense urban areas than ours. That's a population that not only may desire a smaller car for ease of use, but may also not rely on a car for as much of its transportation needs.

If Europe's gas prices were like ours, you'd certainly see more big cars. But there would also still be plenty of little ones.

I could see the need for a little pussy car in the big city. But is the demand great enough to bring them here in the US? Outside of the big cities I see no need for a shopping cart with a leaf blower on it.

[SVT666]

I could see the need for a little pussy car in the big city. But is the demand great enough to bring them here in the US? Outside of the big cities I see no need for a shopping cart with a leaf blower on it.

And there are few really large cities in North America.  There are some and they are some of the largest in the world, but the vast majority of this continent is rural.

[Onslaught]

And there are few really large cities in North America.  There are some and they are some of the largest in the world, but the vast majority of this continent is rural.

And I'd rather use the subway or whatever form of public transportation used in these large  city's rather than have a car. I saw what cars looked like in NY and I'd never buy something and let it get fucked up like that.

[sportyaccordy]

I don't know about that. There's certainly a market for subcompact hatchbacks in dense urban parts of the US, and more of Europe's population is in dense urban areas than ours. That's a population that not only may desire a smaller car for ease of use, but may also not rely on a car for as much of its transportation needs.

If Europe's gas prices were like ours, you'd certainly see more big cars. But there would also still be plenty of little ones.

Shit, I live in a city, and most of the people I would be hauling around (brother, girlfriend, close friends) are all either tall or tall and broad. I find that in the city, the time I need a car most is either when I need to leave (often with a few people and/or room for cargo/luggage), or when I need to pick up something I can't load in a granny cart. Sadly in either case a little Mini or w/e won't do. Even something the size of an MKIV Jetta is too small.

The bulk of the cars on my block now are of steady residents... it's all station wagons, minivans and regular midsize cars (most notably a tastefully modded E39 M5). Parking is a bitch if you don't drive to work or work close enough that you can use your lunch break to move your car, but beyond that a regular size car is OK. Despite my obsession with car lengths earlier, truthfully unless a car is like a Mini, as long as it's not a full size sedan or w/e length is no big deal. Avenues in major cities are 2 to 5 lanes wide, and side streets are rarely too narrow for even a tractor trailer. This I think contrasts to Europe, where on top of high gas + car taxes many city roads are incredibly narrow.

Where the compact car could make a resurgence is just with the enthusiast crowd. I like the idea of a Golf GTI, but I hate the fact that its execution resulted in a 3400lb hatchback. The VAG 2.0T in a Polo to me makes much more sense. People live and die by 180-220HP 2200 lb Civics, so I think bringing that kind of power and getting close to that kind of weight in a modern package would find some buyers. They'd just have to design the cars to not look emasculating like the Fiesta and Mazda2

[ifcar]

What you're saying is that there would be no demand in Europe with US-level gas prices. The fact that more than a hundred thousand subcompact cars sell in the U.S. in the typical year -- concentrated in cities, in a nation that is much less urban than Europe -- suggests that's not the case. Demand would drop, but it would still be high.

[Tave]

Ifcar, you're forgetting overall cost of ownership.

Small cars are cheap. Not just cheap to fuel, but cheap in general. In fact in many cases they might get the same mileage as larger options, but they're still cheaper overall.


When I lived in a crowded city and bought my Aveo, I wasn't thinking, "damn, I need this thing because parking is such a bitch." I bought it because it was one of, if not the, cheapest new cars you could buy on warranty.

[GoCougs]

Ifcar, you're forgetting overall cost of ownership.

Small cars are cheap. Not just cheap to fuel, but cheap in general. In fact in many cases they might get the same mileage as larger options, but they're still cheaper overall.

A big factor in Japan, EVERYTHING is expensive, just the cost of living in general in addition to the costs to own a car beyond fuel and taxes.

[2o6]

Not only this, but small cars that are sold overseas are designed and engineered to use their space limitations a lot smarter than the cars sold here do.

[sportyaccordy]

A big factor in Japan, EVERYTHING is expensive, just the cost of living in general in addition to the costs to own a car beyond fuel and taxes.

Right. Even in a city like NYC, people just aren't buying Smart cars. Minis sell because they have been approved by the Starbucks contingent. In a big city, space is definitely a consideration- you just can't parallel park a Coupe DeVille- but I would say it's definitely not a deciding factor. People are gonna buy as much car as they can afford, and in Europe, money spent on cars just doesn't go as far as it does here.

[ifcar]

Right. Even in a city like NYC, people just aren't buying Smart cars. Minis sell because they have been approved by the Starbucks contingent. In a big city, space is definitely a consideration- you just can't parallel park a Coupe DeVille- but I would say it's definitely not a deciding factor. People are gonna buy as much car as they can afford, and in Europe, money spent on cars just doesn't go as far as it does here.

Some people are going to buy as much car as they can afford; others will not take that mentality. Especially in a crowded city where size is a plus. I work in upscale neighborhoods in D.C., and you have a healthy mix of Range Rovers and Fits there.

Again, what has been stated in this thread is that Europeans wouldn't buy small cars anymore if their gas cost what ours costs. The very obvious point that I've made and you've ignored is that Americans buy small cars with fuel at that cost, especially Americans who live in the sort of dense urban areas that represent an even greater section of Europe. Are they in the minority? Sure. Is that minority big enough to support a market for subcompact cars? Of course.