Have the Koreans Gotten it Right?

[WookieOnRitalin]

I find myself looking more at Korean cars than Japanese or American cars. I have no idea how this happen. Maybe I under some spell that Hyundai/Kia have casted upon me, but I am just liking essentially EVERY move they are making as a corporation. Outside of buying a truck, the Koreans seem to offer the most diverse, fun lineups top to bottom.

A few years ago, the Koreans were the next big thing. Then they kinda fell off the map for a few years and now this entire refit of both Kia's and Hyundai's lineup. To me, it seems like the Koreans have somehow managed do two things simultaneously.

1: Take the Hyundai brand to the same quality and refinement as rival mainstream rivals Toyota, Chevy, and Ford.
2: Take the Kia brand and make it a more youth oriented brand by putting up some unique product like the Soul, Soul'ster, 5-door hatchbacks, wagons, coupes, and some of the best in class CUVs (reminds me of older Japanese funky alternative vehicles).

On top of that, the Korean product pipeline seems vibrant with not only new models coming out, but new technology including engines and transmissions. Here is a glimpse at just Kia's projected pipeline.

http://www.kia-world.net/index.php/2010/06/09/future-kia-cars-suvs-and-crossovers-in-2011-and-beyond/

New Kia Picanto: Next-generation Picanto is scheduled to go on sale in Europe late next year. It will be available as a three door or five-door model. The model will grow in size and will be much safer than existing Picanto (note: the current model only got three stars at EuroNCAP crash tests).

Powertrain updates will include a brand-new three-cylinder turbocharged engine with up to 110 horsepower. An all-electric Kia Picanto is also set to debut within three years, according to latest rumors. Expect the new Picanto to look as stylish as other latest Kia vehicles!

Next-generation Kia Rio: Kia Rio is expected to debut in spring 2011. There are not much of information available at this point except of that Kia will call the model K2 in Korea.

All-new Kia cee?d: The most-popular Kia vehicle in Europe will undergo a major redesign within two years. It will feature new three- and four-cylinder engines, as well as a diesel-hybrid powertrain. Dual-clutch gearbox will also be available according to sources close to Kia.

Kia Forte 5-door hatchback: Following the Forte four-door sedan and sporty two-door Koup is the five-door Kia Forte. Exhibited for the first time at the New York auto show in April, the Forte hatch brings the long-awaited 6-speed automatic transmission to the Forte range. Hopefully, the 6-speed automatic gearbox will soon appear in other two Kia Fortes.

2011 Kia Optima: Unveiled at New York auto show, the all-new Optima is scheduled to hit the US-market in the second half of the year. The all-new mid-size sedan from Kia Motors is set to take on hot-selling 2011 Hyundai Sonata sedan and other established nameplates, including the Ford Fusion, Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.

Probably, the hottest-looking Kia sedan ever, the Optima features highly advanced powertrain technology such as brand-new 6-speed automatic gearbox and new 2.4L four-cyl. engines with gasoline-direct-injection technology for improved performance and fuel-efficiency. Turbo engine as well as hybrid powertrain will be available for the first time in a Kia vehicle sold on the US soil.

Possible variants of new Kia Optima include Optima Sporty Wagon and Optima Coupe.


2011 Kia Sportage: Another hot-looking Kia vehicle headed for its US sales debut. Coming to the showroom floor this fall, the new Sportage is another embodiment of Kia?s whole new family-look pioneered by the brand?s design guru Peter Schreyer and Kia?s entire design team.

2011 Kia Soul: The multiple award-wining crossover will not receive any major styling updates for the 2011 model year. However, it is very likely the 2011 Kia Soul will receive vastly improved powertrain technology, including new 2.0L four-cylinder engine coupled to a six-speed automatic tranny.

Let us not forget about Kia Soul?ster pick-up as we might see it debuting by the end of 2011 or early in 2012.

Kia K9: The Hyundai Genesis sedan based Kia luxury car. Its only a rumor for now, but some people say there?s a market for a luxury Kia vehicle. What do you think?

Kia coupe: It will most probably happen after-all. According to British magazine Autocar, Peter Schreyer?s been pushing Kia to add such vehicle to its vehicle line-up: sources say the coupe would be based on the Kee concept revealed in 2007 and built on the platform used by the Hyundai Genesis Coupe. A perfect combination!! Add a cabrio variant and we have a new dream sports car.

To me, the product coming from the the Koreans is just astounding especially growing up with them with the idea that they were piles of crap that were loud, unreliable, and cheap. Now, I do not have that impression and I think the Koreans are setting themselves up to be the one the most relevant manufacturers heading into the 21st century.

Pics:

Hyundai:
Accent


Elantra


Sonata


Equus


Genesis


Genesis Coupe


Veloster




Kia:

Soul and Soul'ster



Forte and Forte Coupe



Optima and Optima Coupe

[sportyaccordy]

If I had to get a midsizer today my first stop would be at the Hyundai dealership

Same for a NEW sporty coupe

They have a lot of nice cars out now and have more interesting/logical offerings than Toyota/Honda/Nissan

[Raza]

You are under a spell.  Most of them are still crap.

[ifcar]

The Forte is going to set Kia back years. Right now, it falls into the "okay for the price" category, which is nothing new for the brand, and as a new model, it's going to be with Kia for a while in perhaps its most important slot. Once that's replaced in 2015 or thereabouts, the brand will be much further along.

Hyundai will be at that point much sooner unless it similarly messes up the new Accent, Elantra, and Tiburon -- the weak points of its lineup, at varying degrees -- and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[Payman]

I love that new Optima. Best Saab ever. 

[WookieOnRitalin]

The Forte is going to set Kia back years. Right now, it falls into the "okay for the price" category, which is nothing new for the brand, and as a new model, it's going to be with Kia for a while in perhaps its most important slot. Once that's replaced in 2015 or thereabouts, the brand will be much further along.

Hyundai will be at that point much sooner unless it similarly messes up the new Accent, Elantra, and Tiburon -- the weak points of its lineup, at varying degrees -- and it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

I think that is a little melodramatic iffy considering that Edmunds just awarded the Forte as their top rated vehicle by consumers for vehicles under 15k. I think Forte can be considered par for the class if nothing else though not a class leader. As you have pointed out, it does nothing especially well. At the end of the day, it is still frugal, affordable, and entertaining enough to appeal to consumers. Hyundai is on track to move around 65k this year. My guess is that there will be transmission and engine improvements to the Forte as it goes farther into its career as a Kia model. As long as Kia can keep it relevant, that is all that matters. If Kia can make money off of it, what does it matter?

[Submariner]

The Genesis hasn't been a huge success - I have a real hard time seeing the Equus performing well at all.

VW has always had an upscale image, but couldn't move the likely superior-in-every-way Phaeton.  If people are looking for 55k luxury, they're not going to look for it in the same showrooms that have 3-door Accent hatchbacks, they're going to go straight to the Mercedes, BMW and Audi dealerships for the E550,  550i, A6, etc. 

[WookieOnRitalin]

The Genesis hasn't been a huge success - I have a real hard time seeing the Equus performing well at all.

VW has always had an upscale image, but couldn't move the likely superior-in-every-way Phaeton.  If people are looking for 55k luxury, they're not going to look for it in the same showrooms that have 3-door Accent hatchbacks, they're going to go straight to the Mercedes, BMW and Audi dealerships for the E550,  550i, A6, etc. 

I find that much to be true, but since the Koreans are so new to the ball game of luxury is that impeding their ability to have relevance in the class?

As we move forward and these vehicles become high quality vehicles undercutting the competition do consumers begin to notice especially as more of the vehicles show up on the streets? The idea of a luxury Korean vehicle seems like a tough sell, but I honestly think that with the success of the Sonata, Elantra, and other vehicles, people will begin to give Hyundais a second look. Don't you think?

People just did not jump into Lexus' over night. I imagine it takes time and has more to do with the relevance of mainstream product.

[Payman]

The Genesis hasn't been a huge success - I have a real hard time seeing the Equus performing well at all.

VW has always had an upscale image, but couldn't move the likely superior-in-every-way Phaeton.  If people are looking for 55k luxury, they're not going to look for it in the same showrooms that have 3-door Accent hatchbacks, they're going to go straight to the Mercedes, BMW and Audi dealerships for the E550,  550i, A6, etc. 

This is true. As good as the Genesis is, and fantastic as the Phaeton was, people just don't go to VW or Hyundai/Kia to shop for a luxury car.

[Byteme]

Personally, strictly from an appearance standpoint I wouldn't be caught dead in any of the cars you pictured.  IMO,a they are uniformly ugly.

[2o6]

The Koreans are doing it right, the weak points in their lineup are being addressed and fixed with new models.

[Vinsanity]

wow...I know it's strictly wishful thinking, but it would be simply kick-ass if Kia built that Optima coupe on the underpinnings of the GenCoupe

[SVT666]

The Genesis Coupe and the Sonata are all that either company makes that I would look at.  The Genesis sedan might have 375 hp, but it's as sporty as Oprah is.

[Raza]

I find that much to be true, but since the Koreans are so new to the ball game of luxury is that impeding their ability to have relevance in the class?

People just did not jump into Lexus' over night. I imagine it takes time and has more to do with the relevance of mainstream product.

As much as we poke fun at Wimmer about H&H^TM, it does matter in the luxury game. 

[SVT666]

As much as we poke fun at Wimmer about H&H^TM, it does matter in the luxury game. 

It absolutely does and I don't know why you guys give him a hard time about it. 

[Raza]

It absolutely does and I don't know why you guys give him a hard time about it. 

Because he takes it to an extreme level, where he discounts anything that hasn't been around for 50 years.

[ifcar]

I think that is a little melodramatic iffy considering that Edmunds just awarded the Forte as their top rated vehicle by consumers for vehicles under 15k. I think Forte can be considered par for the class if nothing else though not a class leader. As you have pointed out, it does nothing especially well. At the end of the day, it is still frugal, affordable, and entertaining enough to appeal to consumers. Hyundai is on track to move around 65k this year. My guess is that there will be transmission and engine improvements to the Forte as it goes farther into its career as a Kia model. As long as Kia can keep it relevant, that is all that matters. If Kia can make money off of it, what does it matter?

Edmunds' online voting says very little about whether a car is actually any good, especially because their $15k figure (for base MSRPs, a meaningless figure on two levels) splits the compact car market in half.

And the characteristics you're describing -- okay but not great at most things -- for a brand-new design are the recipe of a car that quickly counts as mediocre. And sure, that's fine for many people, but it's hardly a breakthrough from what Kia's been offering for the better part of a decade.

[sportyaccordy]

As much as we poke fun at Wimmer about H&H^TM, it does matter in the luxury game. 

As far as success of a brand, I agree. As great as the Phaeton was as a car, it was a terrible business idea.

However if the Genesis sedan is as good as a Benz or Lexus in every way at a sharp discount, then IDK... to me you'd be a special person to not at least consider it just because of its brand.

[Raza]

As far as success of a brand, I agree. As great as the Phaeton was as a car, it was a terrible business idea.

However if the Genesis sedan is as good as a Benz or Lexus in every way at a sharp discount, then IDK... to me you'd be a special person to not at least consider it just because of its brand.

I think most people would not consider it.  While Europeans appear to be much more image conscious than we are, we are still quite image conscious.

[2o6]

I think that Equus would be a good name for a luxury make.


Equus Genesis.......sounds right.

[GoCougs]

Philosophically, I'd say yes, the Koreans are doing it better than anyone else; Detroit by a long shot, and even to an extent the Japanese.

Detroit still has major issues - Ford is relying on bad designs (Flex, Taurus), cars 6-7+ years old (Mustang, Focus, Flex, Fusion, Explorer, Ranger) vehicles people don't really need (trucks) and debt levels never before seen by a company of its size, GM has some of those issues to a lesser extent but being nationalized the company won't do much of anything good ever again, and Chrysler's doom has already been spelled out.

The Japanese got away from the efficient and utilitarian designs that changed the automotive world; for example look how many SUVs Toyota has in its lineup - practically speaking this is what catapulted Toyota to the top of the heap but philosophically speaking people don't need these cars and the diversion hurt their core products. IMO, if Toyota and Honda had never gone down the Tundra/Pilot/Sequoia/MDX/et al., tack, they may have not made the massive strides a few years ago but they wouldn't be hurting today.

The Koreans are focusing on more space-efficient and utilitarian designs, akin to how the Japanese broke into the USDM in the '80s. This time though they're adding a bit of jazz the Japanese didn't. I don't know if the Koreans will ever come to dominate the USDM but in the next 20 years the Koreans will do the best overall if they focus on cars people need (and not want).

[Vinsanity]

the Koreans will do the best overall if they focus on cars people need (and not want).

Um, absolutely they need to focus on wants as well as needs. Most people "need" just a Civic/Corolla, but they WANT a BMW or Lexus. If anything, I'd say that improving their desirability factor would be the biggest step in their conquest for market share.

[SVT_Power]

From my experience, all the korean cars right now are great on paper. They're great if you don't really care about the driving experience. But if you actually drive a car, they're not very good.

But like I said, if you're buying cars as appliances (which I assume a vast majority of buyers are) they're great choices. Especially considering the fact that the bumper to bumper warranty covers probably the entire first ownership of the vehicle (not that they're the only ones that offer this), it's hard to go wrong.

[GoCougs]

Um, absolutely they need to focus on wants as well as needs. Most people "need" just a Civic/Corolla, but they WANT a BMW or Lexus. If anything, I'd say that improving their desirability factor would be the biggest step in their conquest for market share.

The problem with the auto industry and chasing market share is product development cycles. It takes 4-5+ years to develop a product yet tastes/economies/regulations/et al., can change in a week. If like Toyota you chase the truck/SUV craze and catch it right it can catapult you to the top of the heap, but when things change that inertia can have the opposite effect.

Overall Toyota quite possibly would have been financially better off had it not gone down the "want"-based products (Tundra/Sequioa/Highlander/FJ/LX/GX, etc.) and instead thrown all that money into existing "need"-based products (Camry, Corolla, Rav4, Tacoma, etc.) but then again it likely never would have become the world's largest and richest automaker (for a short time).

[sportyaccordy]

From my experience, all the korean cars right now are great on paper. They're great if you don't really care about the driving experience. But if you actually drive a car, they're not very good.

Is a Sonata that much worse a drive than an Accord/Camry/Altima? I thought they were getting good reviews

[SVT666]

Detroit still has major issues - Ford is relying on bad designs (Flex, Taurus), cars 6-7+ years old (Mustang, Focus, Flex, Fusion, Explorer, Ranger) vehicles people don't really need (trucks) and debt levels never before seen by a company of its size,

See, that statement right there shows you don't know what you're talking about.  Ford is probably doing it better then anyone right now.  Their new products are as good as or better then the best in every category...regardless of the age of the original design.  As far as I'm concerned, when a car is substantially upgraded in every possible way, it's a new design.

Despite the Ranger being as old as dirt, it still sells well because it's the only compact truck left on the market.  It's a good truck.  I can't wait to see a new Ranger as long as it doesn't get any bigger, but of the small trucks on the market right now, the Ranger is my #1 pick.

[Vinsanity]

The problem with the auto industry and chasing market share is product development cycles. It takes 4-5+ years to develop a product yet tastes/economies/regulations/et al., can change in a week. If like Toyota you chase the truck/SUV craze and catch it right it can catapult you to the top of the heap, but when things change that inertia can have the opposite effect.

Overall Toyota quite possibly would have been financially better off had it not gone down the "want"-based products (Tundra/Sequioa/Highlander/FJ/LX/GX, etc.) and instead thrown all that money into existing "need"-based products (Camry, Corolla, Rav4, Tacoma, etc.) but then again it likely never would have become the world's largest and richest automaker (for a short time).

I was thinking more from a desirability-within-a-segment standpoint, which Kia has yet to achieve. Noone looks at a Kia and goes, "wow, that's a cool car compared to [insert competitor here]". This is what Mazda achieved with the first 3, and Nissan to some extent with the 2002 Altima. Kia dropped the ball with the Forte, but the new Optima is IMO the most attractive mainstreamer available, so hopefully for Kia, that car will put buyers on notice in the same way as the aforementioned models.

[Onslaught]

They've come a long way. I work on Korean cars and they're put together well these days. Years ago I found them to be a joke. You could pull the radiator support WAY out of shape with one arm back then. It was like working on a beer car with cheap plastic screwed on it. But now every car is built as good as anything at or near the same price. And every new car that comes out is much better than the last one.

And I've said it before even if it wouldn't matter to any of you. They make the easiest cars to work on. They should show all the others how to make some of this stuff.

[Payman]

I was thinking more from a desirability-within-a-segment standpoint, which Kia has yet to achieve. Noone looks at a Kia and goes, "wow, that's a cool car compared to [insert competitor here]". This is what Mazda achieved with the first 3, and Nissan to some extent with the 2002 Altima. Kia dropped the ball with the Forte, but the new Optima is IMO the most attractive mainstreamer available, so hopefully for Kia, that car will put buyers on notice in the same way as the aforementioned models.

Without hesitation, I would say "wow, that's a cool car compared to the Accord, Camry, Mazda6, Malibu, Fusion, Legacy, and Sonata" about the new Optima.

[the Teuton]

The Koreans are starting to get everything right. But there's a reason they still come with 10-year warranties: they need 'em.

Dynamics are on par with the Japanese. Interior quality, imo, has surpassed the Japanese with this new generation. And to say the GDI isn't one of the most advanced engines ever produced would be retarded.

Reliability isn't quite there yet.