Review: 2010 Subaru Impreza 2.5i

[the Teuton]

To set the record straight:

The EJ22, both E (NA) and T (turbo) were the most reliable EJs ever sold. The EJ18 I had died because of oil starvation because my brother is/was a 'tard.

The EJ25D DOHC engine was a mess when it came to head gaskets. Subaru got it better with the EJ251 in the next 2.5 RS that lasted until 2001, but it wasn't that great. The engines that have come out since then have been nearly bulletproof, though.

With the exception of the EJ25D, Subaru's EJ engines have had excellent reliability overall. The cause for it (and some early JDM DOHC engines to a small extent) were because of the open deck or semi-open deck design, bigger, hotter, iron heads, and weaker, more malleable aluminum blocks, along with an inherently poorly designed head gasket.

The thicker metal gaskets that Subaru sells as replacements in the EJ25D engine, and that have come standard in every model since the EJ251 engine, have left little in the way of malfunction left in the design.

The reason the EJ22E design is the most reliable (my dad's Legacy is awesome at over 200k miles now) is because of its simple SOHC design that doesn't get as hot, non-interference engine (this would not be the case for the EJ22 for 1998 and beyond), and relatively stout, thick block. There's a reason it's often used in light aircrafts.

[giant_mtb]

Third paragraph:

"When I?d try to do the imitate his moves,"

[GoCougs]

I have no doubt Subaru has worked to improve durability but I still remain quite skeptical but wish them luck - I'd very much like my next car to be a Subaru (and eagerly awaiting the return of the Outback XT w/MT).

As to using flat/boxer engines in airplanes, it's because of cooling and packaging, and not anything to do with durability or strength. The flat-style engine is inherently much more friendly for air cooling as the cylinders are much more exposed WRT to an inline engine (no liquid cooling = more reliable and lower maintenance). The flat style engine is also much easier to package inside the nose of a small Cessna or in the small nacelle of a dual engine Beechcraft.

[CALL_911]

I have no doubt Subaru has worked to improve durability but I still remain quite skeptical but wish them luck - I'd very much like my next car to be a Subaru (and eagerly awaiting the return of the Outback XT w/MT).

As to using flat/boxer engines in airplanes, it's because of cooling and packaging, and not anything to do with durability or strength. The flat-style engine is inherently much more friendly for air cooling as the cylinders are much more exposed WRT to an inline engine (no liquid cooling = more reliable and lower maintenance). The flat style engine is also much easier to package inside the nose of a small Cessna or in the small nacelle of a dual engine Beechcraft.

Would you ever consider a WRX?

I feel like you've answered this question before, but since I don't remember your response, I'll go ahead and ask you again.

[Raza]

Would you ever consider a WRX?

I feel like you've answered this question before, but since I don't remember your response, I'll go ahead and ask you again.

I believe he said it was too small, which is understandable. 

[hotrodalex]

I still want an old WRX to bomb down back roads in.

[GoCougs]

Yeah, WRX is too small, too low rent, looks too ricey for me (especially with the STi body coming in 2011) and the "wagon" version is actually a hatch which has less cargo space than the WRX sedan.

[the Teuton]

The sedan is also five inches longer than the hatch.

Subaru has had its failings, but it has always improved its products afterwards and usually has come to side with the customer when it comes to rectifying a bad situation.

[AutobahnSHO]

If Subaru wants to sell AWD Toyotas, they're welcome to, and will likely gain marketshare (if they haven't already), but they won't get my dollars with that half assed bullshit. 

IIRC, Subaru was the only manufacturer to sell more in 2008 than 2007, AND 2009 than 2008.
They've gained traction as the cars have looked more "mainstream" and the AWD thing is a seller in some regions.

As noted though, they take a definite hit for the poorer gas mileage and cheaper interiors. I wonder if they would sell more if they could offer FWD only versions cheaper than the current prices, or if that would wreck the brand ?!

[the Teuton]

Why would they want to?

[Raza]

IIRC, Subaru was the only manufacturer to sell more in 2008 than 2007, AND 2009 than 2008.
They've gained traction as the cars have looked more "mainstream" and the AWD thing is a seller in some regions.

As noted though, they take a definite hit for the poorer gas mileage and cheaper interiors. I wonder if they would sell more if they could offer FWD only versions cheaper than the current prices, or if that would wreck the brand ?!

Exactly.  If you want volume, you push mainstream.  Porsche did it, but they did it right.  They sold the Cayenne.  They didn't soften everything up to the point that mommies would use them for the school run.  Subaru ripped out the heart of their core model for sales.  They sold out.  So the sheep will follow the shepherd, but I am not one. 

[Raza]

Why would they want to?

Yeah!  Why would a company want to sell more cars!?

[the Teuton]

Yeah!  Why would a company want to sell more cars!?

It'd be diluting the brand, like selling a FWD BMW.

[Raza]

It'd be diluting the brand, like selling a FWD BMW.

They already diluted the brand.

And they are planning a FWD BMW.

[the Teuton]

They already diluted the brand.

And they are planning a FWD BMW.

I suppose you have a point. But when VW is going back to beam axles, drum brakes, and the 2.Slow, does it really make sense to make a sportier car that isn't a WRX? Other than the Mazda3, nothing in the class is too, too sporty out of the box.

[Raza]

I suppose you have a point. But when VW is going back to beam axles, drum brakes, and the 2.Slow, does it really make sense to make a sportier car that isn't a WRX? Other than the Mazda3, nothing in the class is too, too sporty out of the box.

Drum brakes?

I want to see specs on this new Jetta.  Hopefully it will get panned (after the MkV got such great reviews) and they'll make the MkVII a better car again.  Although, it'll probably sell more since it'll be worse for the enthusiast.  That second Jetta 2.5 I drove?  Nowhere near as good as my car, but I'd have been okay driving it if I had one.  If we rate my car a 10/10 on the Jetta scale, that was about a 6.5.  The first 2.5 was about a 3, maybe four.  You figure a 2.5 with a stick would be about a 7.  Not too bad.  But I'm thinking about the black front from the 2010.  I digress....



That's my point.  They moved mainstream to get more marketshare and it worked.  Alienate the diehards for the mainstream consumer and you'll almost always see short term growth.  Long term, if you can ride the cycle like Toyota did.  So, why not add gas mileage to the one thing they can brag about?  It's just one word if they offer FWD.  "AWD available on all our models!"

[MX793]

I have no doubt Subaru has worked to improve durability but I still remain quite skeptical but wish them luck - I'd very much like my next car to be a Subaru (and eagerly awaiting the return of the Outback XT w/MT).

As to using flat/boxer engines in airplanes, it's because of cooling and packaging, and not anything to do with durability or strength. The flat-style engine is inherently much more friendly for air cooling as the cylinders are much more exposed WRT to an inline engine (no liquid cooling = more reliable and lower maintenance). The flat style engine is also much easier to package inside the nose of a small Cessna or in the small nacelle of a dual engine Beechcraft.

Boxer configuration also has superior primary balance to most other layouts (save for I6s and V12s, the latter commonly used in WWII era aircraft).

[the Teuton]

Fundamentally, you're right. My dad's Legacy is FWD. It's just fine -- and it probably has better steering feel than my Impreza ever did.

But Subaru has spent 15 years to carve out this niche as an AWD manufacturer, no, the AWD manufacturer. To throw that away for a quick buck really would make it into just another Toyota.

And yeah, my boss said the Jetta was going to have drum brakes in the rear. I'm sure he gets flooded with press releases, so I'm going to trust him for the moment.

[Raza]

Fundamentally, you're right. My dad's Legacy is FWD. It's just fine -- and it probably has better steering feel than my Impreza ever did.

But Subaru has spent 15 years to carve out this niche as an AWD manufacturer, no, the AWD manufacturer. To throw that away for a quick buck really would make it into just another Toyota.

And yeah, my boss said the Jetta was going to have drum brakes in the rear. I'm sure he gets flooded with press releases, so I'm going to trust him for the moment.

Two steps forward, three steps back...

[MX793]

Drum brakes?

I want to see specs on this new Jetta.  Hopefully it will get panned (after the MkV got such great reviews) and they'll make the MkVII a better car again.  Although, it'll probably sell more since it'll be worse for the enthusiast.  That second Jetta 2.5 I drove?  Nowhere near as good as my car, but I'd have been okay driving it if I had one.  If we rate my car a 10/10 on the Jetta scale, that was about a 6.5.  The first 2.5 was about a 3, maybe four.  You figure a 2.5 with a stick would be about a 7.  Not too bad.  But I'm thinking about the black front from the 2010.  I digress....



That's my point.  They moved mainstream to get more marketshare and it worked.  Alienate the diehards for the mainstream consumer and you'll almost always see short term growth.  Long term, if you can ride the cycle like Toyota did.  So, why not add gas mileage to the one thing they can brag about?  It's just one word if they offer FWD.  "AWD available on all our models!"

Lower level trims (S and SE) will get drum rears.  SEL and higher get 4-wheel discs.  And all but the GLI will get a torsion beam rear suspension.

[the Teuton]

Two steps forward, three steps back...

But hey, it'll be a Jetta that starts under $16,000! Isn't that what the market wants?

[MX793]

But hey, it'll be a Jetta that starts under $16,000! Isn't that what the market wants?

VW is following Toyota to try to get Corolla sales numbers.  First they introduce Corolla-esque styling.  Then they drop in drum brakes, a torsion beam suspension and a relatively underpowered standard engine.

[ifcar]

VW is following Toyota to try to get Corolla sales numbers.  First they introduce Corolla-esque styling.  Then they drop in drum brakes, a torsion beam suspension and a relatively underpowered standard engine.

Corolla's got way better power-to-weight than that Jetta.

[MX793]

Corolla's got way better power-to-weight than that Jetta.

They supposedly lopped like 150 lbs off of the weight of the new one, though it'll still be quite a bit heavier than the Corolla.

[ifcar]

They supposedly lopped like 150 lbs off of the weight of the new one, though it'll still be quite a bit heavier than the Corolla.

And have quite a bit less power.

[GoCougs]

I think Subaru is 100% making the right product and strategic business calls. They've got a very loyal fan base, have moderate volumes, and was one of the few if not only auto makers that didn't feel the recession sales crunch. Their products have made vast leaps in refinement the last few generations.

[the Teuton]

I think Subaru is 100% making the right product and strategic business calls. They've got a very loyal fan base, have moderate volumes, and was one of the few if not only auto makers that didn't feel the recession sales crunch. Their products have made vast leaps in refinement the last few generations.

That's pretty much my argument with the Impreza: It was similar enough that it didn't alienate me, but it was new (read: bland) enough that Subaru found a way to attract beige buyers who might be turned off by the Toyotas of the world for whatever reason. It's a win-win for Subes.

[r0tor]

I'd take the new gen (un)impreza over the previous gen cars on build quality alone... I always loved the old 2.5rs and the bugeye wrxs, but damn those thing had some build quality issues

[sportyaccordy]

Fundamentally, you're right. My dad's Legacy is FWD. It's just fine -- and it probably has better steering feel than my Impreza ever did.

But Subaru has spent 15 years to carve out this niche as an AWD manufacturer, no, the AWD manufacturer. To throw that away for a quick buck really would make it into just another Toyota.

And yeah, my boss said the Jetta was going to have drum brakes in the rear. I'm sure he gets flooded with press releases, so I'm going to trust him for the moment.

In this day and age, with CAFE and people wanting good gas mileage a FWD Impreza makes sense. They could get a lot more people in the door by confusing them with talk of great gas mileage and available "award winning symmetric all-wheel-drive". Outside of the snow belt there's no reason to buy a Subaru, and I would bet a map of their sales would reflect that.

Truthfully though.... if Subaru really wants to make a statement.... they could go RWD on all their 2WD models. I mean the engine/tranny is situated the right way and that would REALLY make a statement to enthusiasts. They could bill themselves as the working man's BMW.... but that's just a pipe dream....

[GoCougs]

In this day and age, with CAFE and people wanting good gas mileage a FWD Impreza makes sense. They could get a lot more people in the door by confusing them with talk of great gas mileage and available "award winning symmetric all-wheel-drive". Outside of the snow belt there's no reason to buy a Subaru, and I would bet a map of their sales would reflect that.

Truthfully though.... if Subaru really wants to make a statement.... they could go RWD on all their 2WD models. I mean the engine/tranny is situated the right way and that would REALLY make a statement to enthusiasts. They could bill themselves as the working man's BMW.... but that's just a pipe dream....

Couple of issues...

First, a FWD Legacy or Impreza is a very tough sell vs. an Accord or Civic; even with AWD, plus the cars already get good mpg.

Second, AWD has plenty of advantages in wet climates as even moderate-powered FWD vehicles will easily lose traction.

Third, automakers don't make money selling cars to enthusiasts, and the relative few who are new car buying Subaru enthusiasts are all about the AWD/rally car thing.