GM?s Volt priced for the average family

[FoMoJo]

I am all for new technology, just make it financially feasible w/o gov't subsidies. Electric cars will become feasible when they can be produced and sold by manufacturers at a price comparable to a regular gas car and can hold a charge comparable to a regular gas car's fuel range. The Volt does neither, and is being subsidized by tax payers. That's my beef. Let the food finish cooking before you serve it.

It seems in these times that technology would languish if not for government incentives (taxpayer's money).  Private capital, which once was willing to invest in feasible ventures with the promise of long term gain, seems only interested in turning a quick buck.

[Jon?]

It seems in these times that technology would languish if not for government incentives (taxpayer's money).  Private capital, which once was willing to invest in feasible ventures with the promise of long term gain, seems only interested in turning a quick buck.

The gov't grants would be larger if we could make it economically feasible to drop Volts on the evildoers.

[Byteme]

I am all for new technology, just make it financially feasible w/o gov't subsidies. Electric cars will become feasible when they can be produced and sold by manufacturers at a price comparable to a regular gas car and can hold a charge comparable to a regular gas car's fuel range. The Volt does neither, and is being subsidized by tax payers. That's my beef. Let the food finish cooking before you serve it.

The only way the transcontinental railroad became reality was because of huge government subsidies in the form of a right of way something like 10 miles wide being given to the Cnetral Pacific and Union Pacific companies.  Sometimes a technology needs a jumpstart.

[sportyaccordy]

The only way the transcontinental railroad became reality was because of huge government subsidies in the form of a right of way something like 10 miles wide being given to the Cnetral Pacific and Union Pacific companies.  Sometimes a technology needs a jumpstart.

Good point, but the transcontinental railroad system had immense value in that it greatly added to the country's infrastructure. Even if electric cars become a reality, there will still be huge infrastructure improvements to be made to accommodate them, and in order to make them feasible these changes would have to happen in a short period of time ($$$$$$$). IDK I just haven't heard anything convincing yet

[AutobahnSHO]

Good point, but the transcontinental railroad system had immense value in that it greatly added to the country's infrastructure. Even if electric cars become a reality, there will still be huge infrastructure improvements to be made to accommodate them, and in order to make them feasible these changes would have to happen in a short period of time ($$$$$$$). IDK I just haven't heard anything convincing yet

Good point but it's gotta happen someday, right?

[hotrodalex]

I am all for new technology, just make it financially feasible w/o gov't subsidies. Electric cars will become feasible when they can be produced and sold by manufacturers at a price comparable to a regular gas car and can hold a charge comparable to a regular gas car's fuel range. The Volt does neither, and is being subsidized by tax payers. That's my beef. Let the food finish cooking before you serve it.

They have to start somewhere.

And call up your congressman if you don't like the tax subsidization.

[Byteme]

Another thought:

Prior to WWI most of the roads in the US weren't paved, you were as likely to buy gas at the drug store as a gas station in many parts of the country and the only repair facilities in most of the rural areas were ran by blacksmiths.  Yet, despite this Henry Ford was cranking out Model Ts as fast as he could, and other car brands were also increasing production.  Infrastructure followed the explosion of car sales.  Fabled Route 66 wasn't even fully paved until the mid 1930's.

[sportyaccordy]

Another thought:

Prior to WWI most of the roads in the US weren't paved, you were as likely to buy gas at the drug store as a gas station in many parts of the country and the only repair facilities in most of the rural areas were ran by blacksmiths.  Yet, despite this Henry Ford was cranking out Model Ts as fast as he could, and other car brands were also increasing production.  Infrastructure followed the explosion of car sales.  Fabled Route 66 wasn't even fully paved until the mid 1930's.

We'll have to see. I may just have geographic bias. I know that even if plug in cars became comparable in cost to gas cars in NYC, they would have to increase capacity by about 10%, which is tough as they are already beyond the capacity of the area by about that much. And that's assuming cars would add a steady 24/7 demand. Realistically, if people were to charge their cars during the worst time of the day, capacity would probably have to increase by 50%. If they develop the range, people can charge alternatively at night, and that would actually better mitigate demand to the point that extra capacity might not be needed. But it hinges on the range, which hinges on the battery, not anything development wise from GM really. I just think we're dumping money into the wrong place.

[GoCougs]

The only way the transcontinental railroad became reality was because of huge government subsidies in the form of a right of way something like 10 miles wide being given to the Cnetral Pacific and Union Pacific companies.  Sometimes a technology needs a jumpstart.

Good new technology never, ever needs a jump start.

[Byteme]

Good new technology never, ever needs a jump start.

History shows that apparently it does, and frequently too.

When you come down to it  a patent is an artificial jump start.

[AutobahnSHO]

Good new technology never, ever needs a jump start.

Wrong.
Every piece of technology needed capital to really get going. Boats, cars, etc...

See the railroad discussion above. Much of invention comes from military spending.

[GoCougs]

History shows that apparently it does, and frequently too.

When you come down to it  a patent is an artificial jump start.

Not at all - a patent = securing (intellectual) property rights.

[AutobahnSHO]

Not at all - a patent = securing (intellectual) property rights.

= the state making it so someone can't just copy your idea

[Madman]

Funny thing about the Volt; It's actually built on the same production line as the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS!

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100803/OEM01/308049995/1129

[Byteme]

Not at all - a patent = securing (intellectual) property rights.

You need to understand the history of the U. S. Patent office.  Thomas Jefferson became aware of the role of the patent office's power to tremendously encourage invention and favored their use. Jefferson formulated a policy for patents that encouraged the invention he so wanted to see in America but maintained very stringent restrictions on what could be patented so that the system would not be abused, demonstrating both his respect for invention and his strict definition of what is an invention and what is not.  Protection of intellectual property rights is a natural outcome of the patent process but it's not the reason for the process.  Essentially, it's the monoploy over a product, or process, that makes a patent valuable.  that monoploy gives the inventor an incentive to spend time developing or inproving a product or process.  The incentive being the ability to market it for a period of time without competition, usually 17 years.

See:  http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/winter2000/jefferson.html

Don't they teach this stuff in school anymore?

[GoCougs]

You need to understand the history of the U. S. Patent office.  Thomas Jefferson became aware of the role of the patent office's power to tremendously encourage invention and favored their use. Jefferson formulated a policy for patents that encouraged the invention he so wanted to see in America but maintained very stringent restrictions on what could be patented so that the system would not be abused, demonstrating both his respect for invention and his strict definition of what is an invention and what is not.  Protection of intellectual property rights is a natural outcome of the patent process but it's not the reason for the process.  Essentially, it's the monoploy over a product, or process, that makes a patent valuable.  that monoploy gives the inventor an incentive to spend time developing or inproving a product or process.  The incentive being the ability to market it for a period of time without competition, usually 17 years.

See:  http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/winter2000/jefferson.html

Don't they teach this stuff in school anymore?

False - one can only judge on the "what" and not the "why." Patents and other methods to protect IP existed WAY before the US constitution (and beware Founding Father worship).

[AutobahnSHO]

False - one can only judge on the "what" and not the "why." Patents and other methods to protect IP existed WAY before the US constitution (and beware Founding Father worship).

Yes but Jefferson was able to study different patent protection methods and build the 'best' system for a new country. Jefferson, like most around him, wanted to get rich. They wanted the country to prosper. They didn't do a ton of extortion or dishonest things but DID shape the new nation to be a place where hard work and using the noggin would go a long way.

Our "Founding Fathers" were friggin' geniuses, and I didn't see any 'worship' in posts above.

[GoCougs]

Yes but Jefferson was able to study different patent protection methods and build the 'best' system for a new country. Jefferson, like most around him, wanted to get rich. They wanted the country to prosper. They didn't do a ton of extortion or dishonest things but DID shape the new nation to be a place where hard work and using the noggin would go a long way.

Our "Founding Fathers" were friggin' geniuses, and I didn't see any 'worship' in posts above.

Yes, that's all more or less true; the point being about "worship" is just because TJ says or does something doesn't necessarily make it the be-all and end-all in establishing one's point. Protections of IP, just as with other property - whether it be labor, real estate, or whatever - existed WAY WAY before the FFs did their thang.