NJSP Boss Requests Speeding Ticket for Himself

[TurboDan]

Well this one sounds fishy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gu-d6REfpjT0jFCms1MuGKJZQNWgD9HM89200

First off, this is New Jersey. Nobody has been pulled over for going 10 mph over the speed limit on the Garden State Parkway ... well... ever. Pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking he was probably tearing it up at 90+ out there, and requested he be issued a ticket before the story inevitably broke in the media and witnesses lined up to talk about what really happened. I'd love to use the state's Open Public Record Act to get a copy of the video of the stop.

Quite honestly, I'm usually very tough on NJSP here. There are a lot of good guys in this agency (I've known a couple) but there are major, major problems in NJSP as far as covering up bad behavior, "professional courtesy" gone too far, etc. A few months ago, the newspaper published a story about a trooper who was pulled over three times for DUI (as well as 14 other traffic offenses... she was offered a ride home during the DUIs) but never charged in any of them - and is still working the Atlantic City Expressway with NJSP.

This seems like it's either a contrived PR stunt to try to make the agency look good, or a potential cover-up to mask something more serious that was occurring at the time the ticket was issued.

This is New Jersey, afterall.

[dazzleman]

I'm guessing it's a coverup.

[James Young]

Pandering.

[dazzleman]

Dan, don't you stop by the local barracks and request a ticket any time that you speed on the Garden State?

BTW, do you ever drive the Palisades Parkway?  That's a great road to drive.

[Catman]

Stupid.

[dazzleman]

Stupid.

It seems to be.  But as Dan said, maybe he wanted to prevent another one of those negative stories about state police getting away with crazy stuff.

Does your reaction mean that you don't stop in and request a ticket every time you speed, Greg? 

[TurboDan]

Dan, don't you stop by the local barracks and request a ticket any time that you speed on the Garden State?

BTW, do you ever drive the Palisades Parkway?  That's a great road to drive.

Haha, I've never driven the Palisades, actually. To tell you the truth, I don't really even know where it is in New Jersey. I've heard of it plenty of times but never have seen so much as a sign for it, so it must be out of the way of where I usually drive.

There's always a lot of discussion on the NJ law enforcement boards about that roadway, though. Seems that a small police department exists with the sole purpose of patrolling the roadway - the Palisades Interstate Parkway Police. From what I understand, these guys are loathed by other officers in NJ since there's a lot of political appointments to the force. I believe some governor wanted to merge them into the state police and the staties didn't want them.   

As for stopping by the local barracks: I've actually been in the NJSP Marine Division barracks before. Really cool place with a grand circular lookout post overlooking the bay. Kind of looks like an airport radar control tower. Nice group of guys over there. Can't say I've had any contact with the land-based guys since 2004. 

[dazzleman]

Haha, I've never driven the Palisades, actually. To tell you the truth, I don't really even know where it is in New Jersey. I've heard of it plenty of times but never have seen so much as a sign for it, so it must be out of the way of where I usually drive.

There's always a lot of discussion on the NJ law enforcement boards about that roadway, though. Seems that a small police department exists with the sole purpose of patrolling the roadway - the Palisades Interstate Parkway Police. From what I understand, these guys are loathed by other officers in NJ since there's a lot of political appointments to the force. I believe some governor wanted to merge them into the state police and the staties didn't want them.

Interesting.  Typical New Jersey politics/corruption.

One of my buddies likes to tell this story about how he was coming home from a night of heavy drinking once, and had to piss really badly, and he was so drunk he ended up pissing right in the middle of the Palisades Parkway.

I always know at least two guys who've been busted pretty badly for speeding on that road.  It's a fun road to drive.  You should check it out when you get a chance.  It runs from Route 80/5 near the GW Bridge up to the NY State Thruway in Pearl River or someplace right around there.  It's not a really long road, but it's a good one.  

[dazzleman]

Can't say I've had any contact with the land-based guys since 2004. 

You're obviously slacking then, and turning into a pussy-type driver.  You need to step up your game. 

[TurboDan]

It seems to be.  But as Dan said, maybe he wanted to prevent another one of those negative stories about state police getting away with crazy stuff.

Does your reaction mean that you don't stop in and request a ticket every time you speed, Greg? 

The problem in New Jersey is that, like the politicians, a little bit of power goes to peoples' heads. I'm sure this happens everywhere to an extent, but it's so overtly visible in New Jersey that police-citizen relations are absolutely in the toilet. People jump for joy and throw parties whenever a cop is prosecuted for something in this state, and that's sad, because they're often not given a fair shake.

That said, many police agencies (with NJSP leading the pack) bring it on themselves. I once was talking to a high-ranking officer in a large department in New Jersey and he was telling me about all the things they were doing to combat racial profiling, excessive force, etc. I stunned him with my response. I told the Lieutenant that for the average New Jersey resident, they see a thug being arrested on some YouTube video and think to themselves that the guy probably deserved it! That's not why people hate the police. I said to him that 100 instances of excessive force do not bother people as much as ONE person with a PBA or FOP card getting out of a ticket that they, an average citizen, would have gotten. I really don't think he believed me, but I'm right.

This is the state where friends and family members of officers suction-cup HUGE, gold PBA union shields to their windows (sometimes in the front, sometimes in the rear) to avoid being pulled over. Everyone who has even the smallest connection to an officer (4th cousin 12 times removed) gets a "PBA Family" "Gold" card to show during a traffic stop in order to escape a ticket or, as we've found out, to get a ride home instead of a DWI. I don't begrudge officers extending some "professional courtesy" to other officers over speeding tickets and the like - the consequences of a ticket professionally for an officer is a lot more than for a civilian, and nobody wants to jam someone up too badly over something minor. But in this state we now, literally, have a sizable "protected class" of people who are immune from traffic tickets and can get away with certain things. It's so visible and rampant that there is a massive anti-police backlash.

I'm not sure how it can possibly be stopped, but the public's outright hatred of the police over this is a sad thing, and one that can and should be remedied.

[dazzleman]

I don't really mind the 'professional courtesy' thing either, within certain limits.  It should only be for a very limited group of people, directly connected with law enforcement, and for minor offenses.  Certainly, DUI should not be an offense covered by professional courtesy.

This is especially true at a time some states are increasing fines and stepping up enforcement not to make the roads safer, but to raise revenue.

The problem can be partly eradicated but it will take a lot of pressure to do so, probably from the governor's office.  Though the chain of command in New Jersey is such a byzantine mess that the governor may not even have the power.  There needs to be reform of the whole 'authority' system in New Jersey.  An unaccountable branch of government, such as the Turnpike Authority, that has its own guaranteed income stream and no checks on its power is a very dangerous thing.

[rohan]

  Certainly, DUI should not be an offense covered by professional courtesy.

I actually disagree with that on some levels.  LE can be a brutally stressful job on it's own with enormous stress on not just the officer but his family and friends- add in a some very bad memories of very bad things that officers see/do in the line of duty- the feelings of being trapped and the feelings of having no say or control of their professional lives- and the constant feeling of being under absolute scrutiny- and the feeling of constant frustration many officers are victim to among other things- and one of the worst things is the absolute and unconditional isolation from "normal" society officers feel.  I was recently invited to listen to a Ph.D. speak about unseen PTSD on officers and the problems it creates.  This guy was saying that as many as 75% of this countries LE is suffering from diff levels of PTSD and that alcoholism is a major and usually unaccounted for or overlooked or scoffed at symptom.  But instead of helping these afflicted officers through these tough times we as admins are enabling them- telling them they're no good if they drink too much but not providing them with proper coping mechanisms to deal with burden before it gets out of hand all while laughing loudly about our own exploits as young officers but judging them for not being able to deal with stressors we didn't have and can't really appreciate.  

Sure it's never a good thing to drink and drive and sure it's worse for police officers but there's gotta be a point at which LE gets the opportunity for recovery rather than being cast aside as we do now.  At the street level it's giving the wife a call for a buddy officer.  And while that's a good thing officers still care about each other it's not going to help the officer who's really crying out for help by drinking so much.  We as administrators aren't doing enough - so the street level guys take up the slack where they can.  Is it right?  I dunno but I certainly understand it better after going to that seminar.

[dazzleman]

Randy, I must respectfully disagree with you on this.

When people who drink and drive are repeatedly let off the hook for it, they don't get help; they simply continue to drink and drive.

And other people have bad things in their lives that lead them to alcoholism.  Should they get off too?

I'm all for getting people help if they want it, but that doesn't mean excusing dangerous and illegal behavior that could kill innocent people.

[rohan]

I didn't say officers should get off scott free, Dave.  At no point did I imply that police should get a pass- I think you need to re-read my post and see where I place blame and where I think we can help.   And I don't mean to be overly defensive but don't you work in an office?  When was the last time you had to deal with screaming drunks who wanted to harm you?  You have no grounds to place a cumlative "number" (that's the best descriptor I cmae up with) on the stresses police face- just like I have no idea how stressful it is to work in a office trying to advise people on collecting boy-toys (or whatever it is you do)  and the stress that causes. 

[James Young]

I agree with rohan.  We as a  society must learn to deal with problems effectively rather than just efficiently.  We are learning more and more that alcoholism and alcohol abuse are genetically-based issues and trying to treat medical problems with only legal solutions is a recipe for failure.  As public employees, LEOs must enjoy the best and most effective intervention, including removal of enabling and/or excusatory behavior. 

With that said, professional courtesy for DUI is enabling behavior and should be condemned.  Instead of pushing the LEO offender into the legal system, the courtesy should be to push them into the medical system. 

[rohan]

I agree with rohan.  We as a  society must learn to deal with problems effectively rather than just efficiently.  We are learning more and more that alcoholism and alcohol abuse are genetically-based issues and trying to treat medical problems with only legal solutions is a recipe for failure.  As public employees, LEOs must enjoy the best and most effective intervention, including removal of enabling and/or excusatory behavior.  

With that said, professional courtesy for DUI is enabling behavior and should be condemned.  Instead of pushing the LEO offender into the legal system, the courtesy should be to push them into the medical system.  

HO-L-Y SHIT!   Not only did you finally come to your senses you actually made sense- and said what I was trying to say much more eloquently I add.
Well not exactly but close.

[NomisR]

I didn't say officers should get off scott free, Dave.  At no point did I imply that police should get a pass- I think you need to re-read my post and see where I place blame and where I think we can help.   And I don't mean to be overly defensive but don't you work in an office?  When was the last time you had to deal with screaming drunks who wanted to harm you?  You have no grounds to place a cumlative "number" (that's the best descriptor I cmae up with) on the stresses police face- just like I have no idea how stressful it is to work in a office trying to advise people on collecting boy-toys (or whatever it is you do)  and the stress that causes. 

That's what you're implying though with your post.  You're saying officers are under a lot of stress, unneeded scrutiny, and isolation due to the jobs their in, and because of that, it drives them to drink.  And they should be getting a second chance due to the career choices that they make? 

How is that different from any other jobs?  Stress exists, people have to cope, that's a fact of life.  If the officer drives drunk and kills someone, who's going to give that dead person a second chance?  Drunk driver is said to be the most dangerous out of all the traffic violations you guys like to go after, but the way you're describing it is like it's no more different than having tinted windows?! 

Hell, I wasn't even let off for having 50% tint on my windows and you guys want to get off on drunk driving?  Lovely..

[rohan]

No I'm saying instead of throwing them away like we do now and firing them that we help them once their in trouble- but before that we as bosses give them tools to cope (look for that word in the other post) and try to intercede and get them the proper help.   You guys can be quick to judge.  We wouldn't cast an officer aside because he has cancer- alcoholism is an illness and we need to do what we can to help them back to health.  And please point out where I implied what you're saying.

[NomisR]

No I'm saying instead of throwing them away like we do now and firing them that we help them once their in trouble- but before that we as bosses give them tools to cope (look for that word in the other post) and try to intercede and get them the proper help.   You guys can be quick to judge.  We wouldn't cast an officer aside because he has cancer- alcoholism is an illness and we need to do what we can to help them back to health.  And please point out where I implied what you're saying.

So officers are automatically fired if they're caught drunk driving? 

Didn't know that..

Maybe because it's the fact that I rarely drink except socially.. but is drinking worth risking your job for? 

[NomisR]

I agree with rohan.  We as a  society must learn to deal with problems effectively rather than just efficiently.  We are learning more and more that alcoholism and alcohol abuse are genetically-based issues and trying to treat medical problems with only legal solutions is a recipe for failure.  As public employees, LEOs must enjoy the best and most effective intervention, including removal of enabling and/or excusatory behavior. 

With that said, professional courtesy for DUI is enabling behavior and should be condemned.  Instead of pushing the LEO offender into the legal system, the courtesy should be to push them into the medical system. 

Here's the thing though.. do regular people get the same courtesy?  If we get caught drunk driving, we basically risk losing our license, which could mean our jobs as well if we have no alternative means of getting to work.. or even our actual work, for those who relies on driving for their jobs. 

So how's that any different? 

[rohan]

So officers are automatically fired if they're caught drunk driving?  

Didn't know that..

Maybe because it's the fact that I rarely drink except socially.. but is drinking worth risking your job for?  

Automatically?  No they're afforded due process but often their arrests are accompanied by media blitz about how rogue officer etc etc.  and then the officer is quickly fired to show the public how tough the administration can be on officer misconduct - usually the officer gets little or no counciling or chance for that and usually the administration is just as guilty but haven't been caught.  What I'm saying is we as a profession need to do a better job of identifying and helping officers struggling with PTSD or whatever instead of ridiculing them- releasing them and going about business like nothing happened.  And once they're caught we need to do a better job of trying to help them even though some or many are beyond help.  The hope would be that once the system is in place to detect that we could catch more and more of them and get them assistance before it becomes required to fire them.  And I'ld venture to guess that probably 90% of LE agencies just aren't doing it- partly because of $$$ partly because admins don't know any better.  It's like the military- we wouldn't ask these guys (hopefully) to go out and kill or see killing or the horrors of war without a support system right?  But that's exactly what we do with our police officers in this country- our police officers get little or no help unless they do it on their own which most can't afford.

[dazzleman]

I didn't say officers should get off scott free, Dave.  At no point did I imply that police should get a pass- I think you need to re-read my post and see where I place blame and where I think we can help.   And I don't mean to be overly defensive but don't you work in an office?  When was the last time you had to deal with screaming drunks who wanted to harm you?  You have no grounds to place a cumlative "number" (that's the best descriptor I cmae up with) on the stresses police face- just like I have no idea how stressful it is to work in a office trying to advise people on collecting boy-toys (or whatever it is you do)  and the stress that causes. 

I'm confused by your post.

[rohan]

Here's the thing though.. do regular people get the same courtesy?  If we get caught drunk driving, we basically risk losing our license, which could mean our jobs as well if we have no alternative means of getting to work.. or even our actual work, for those who relies on driving for their jobs.  

So how's that any different?  

Neither of us are advocating that officers get off scott free- I'm not sure why you think that's what we're saying?  We're saying they need to be allowed treatment and not just told to fuck off- you're an embarrassment.  

edit- I just re-read his post.  I see what you're saying and I'm not in complete agreement of medical system only I think there need to be both involved but with a chance for the officer to recover rather than only be punished. 

[rohan]

I'm confused by your post.

Which one?  I have been drinking a bit but to me- it seems I'm being fairly clear.

[NomisR]

Neither of us are advocating that officers get off scott free- I'm not sure why you think that's what we're saying?  We're saying they need to be allowed treatment and not just told to fuck off- you're an embarrassment. 

edit- I just re-read his post.  I see what you're saying and I'm not in complete agreement of medical system only I think there need to be both involved but with a chance for the officer to recover rather than only be punished. 

I don't think firing the officers is the answer but at least the same sort of legal recourse as do civilians would be fair.  Manditory AA meetings, etc.  Maybe only fired under repeat offenses.

The problem with the media frenzy over officer behaviors IS because of the fact that officers gets preferential treatment.  And since the fact that LE do infact give each other professional courtesy, they go crazy, whey the LE is "caught red handed".  That part is no surprise at all.

And the thing is to a lot of people is the hypocrisy of it all.  LE  AND politicians expects people to fully obey the law to the letter, yet the same does not apply to them.  In a lot of these cases, maybe the problem is in the law and not with the people breaking the laws.  But of course, nothing would change because it's netting these politicans money in the city coffers and they're not the ones getting the tickets. 

[dazzleman]

Which one?  I have been drinking a bit but to me- it seems I'm being fairly clear.

The one I quoted.  If you've been drinking, never mind.  Go back to your bottle... 

[rohan]

The one I quoted.  If you've been drinking, never mind.  Go back to your bottle...  

I haven't had THAT much- but nice to see you again Mr. Sarcasm.  

[rohan]

I don't think firing the officers is the answer but at least the same sort of legal recourse as do civilians would be fair.  Manditory AA meetings, etc.  Maybe only fired under repeat offenses.

The problem with the media frenzy over officer behaviors IS because of the fact that officers gets preferential treatment.  And since the fact that LE do infact give each other professional courtesy, they go crazy, whey the LE is "caught red handed".  That part is no surprise at all.

And the thing is to a lot of people is the hypocrisy of it all.  LE  AND politicians expects people to fully obey the law to the letter, yet the same does not apply to them.  In a lot of these cases, maybe the problem is in the law and not with the people breaking the laws.  But of course, nothing would change because it's netting these politicans money in the city coffers and they're not the ones getting the tickets.  

Actually police officers have it far more tough in court than regular citizens usually they don't get the same standard of sentencing most often.  They also have deep rammifications at work where regular citizens don't.  But why is there a media frenzy over "preferential treatment" when the officers are arrested on the road (just like citizens) and car impounded (just like citizens) and taken to jail (just like citizens) yet we're accused of special treatment.  That's not "really" possible when the conditions are the same.  The only diff is that some officers get a call to their wives to come and get them- but really that's been going away as well due to liability. And no officer expects anyone to ever follow the letter of the law- well almost never- otherwise we'ld arrest everyone we come in contact with.

[Catman]

I don't agree with letting LEO's off per se for OUI.  I've said for a very long time that by the time an officer gets nabbed for OUI there's been countless opportunities to address the issues that led to it.  Admins and supervisors don't counsel employees like they should and often wait for a guy to hang himself.

[dazzleman]

I haven't had THAT much- but nice to see you again Mr. Sarcasm.  

haha, I was just kidding, man...

You seemed to take some exception to my earlier post.  Maybe it's the hooch....