Authorities skeptical of the new Taurus

[rohan]

Data vs. real world experience?  Numerous problems in the first few months of service can be a good indicator of what is to come.

That being said...maybe he was talking about the 500/Taurus model, Taurus. 

The real world experience is there is no real world experience with the Taurus as a patrol car yet.  Civilian models can be a lot different then police models so the carry over betwen them shouldn't apply-

[rohan]

I guess this also means that the supply of used CVPI's in decent condition that go to auction for sale to the public will dry up because some departments will start to wring every last usable mile out of them before they are replaced.

Not around here- the insurance carriers won't allow them to be over used (they give us a long breakdown of if vehicle has XXX miles and XXX mechanical failure + XXX other incident = replace vehicle type thing- now granted it's all major stuff but still they don't want the liability AND they don't want us to keep cars involved in collisions past a certain point regardless of if it's ever had a major failure) and many unions have replacement schedules in their contracts- in our department for instance we have to replace our cars by 85,000 miles where the state police replace theirs no later than 75,000 miles.  The local departments usually replace them every 2 or 3 years. 

[Catman]

Here's all the results

http://jalopnik.com/5644083/the-great-american-cop-car-shootout

[2o6]

I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.

[the Teuton]

I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.

And so the plot thickens...

...that console shifter isn't helping its case, either.

[3.0L V6]

I'm wondering about the parts accessibility of the Caprice. It's a Holden in drag, and there is no civilian version to supplement this, or any car that really shares too many parts with it. (G8.....but that didn't sell well). The Taurus's basic engine and platform (and likely parts) is shared with other models (and a civilian version) and so is the Charger.

Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.

[GoCougs]

Here's all the results

http://jalopnik.com/5644083/the-great-american-cop-car-shootout

Wow, the Caprice outran both the Hemi Charger and the Taurus SHO. And look at the slowpoke V8 Crown Vics trailing the Tahoe and even the pushrod V6 Impala...

[Catman]

Wow, the Caprice outran both the Hemi Charger and the Taurus SHO. And look at the slowpoke V8 Crown Vics trailing the Tahoe and even the pushrod V6 Impala...

Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional.  It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy.  I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right.  All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue.  I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though.  You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west.  131 mph isn't really good.

[Mustangfan2003]

With the talk about the console shifter in the Caprice well maybe this isn't the final model.  As long as GM has been making police package cars I'm sure they would know better.  Either way I think Ford will give up their sales lead in this field. 

[GoCougs]

Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional.  It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy.  I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right.  All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue.  I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though.  You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west.  131 mph isn't really good.

Yeah, kinda weird they keep the speed governor in place for LEO versions.

And look at the top speed on the Tahoe - 139 mph. Wow!

[bing_oh]

Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional.  It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy.  I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right.  All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue.  I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though.  You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west.  131 mph isn't really good.

The CVPI was never an impressive vehicle speed-wise (or acceleration-wise). Any LEO who ever drove the LT1 Caprice and then switched to the CVPI knew that.

I remember reading an article about the new Ford and the price of the AWD. I don't remember exactly how much they planned on charging extra, but I do remember thinking that it was rather pricy. And, for the road warriors out in the desert, 131 isn't really a blazing fast top speed. For most of us city cops, it's very adequate. Realistically, I prefer good acceleration over super-fast top speeds. I don't think I've ever broken maybe 125 on duty...probably less, realistically.

[Atomic]

- i think the 2011 chevy will succeed at winning over the hearts of the ford crown victoria law enorcement fans. you? is it too small?
- will the new taurus squad car trump the crown vic? is the interior of the "smaller ford" too cramped?
- will sleek the 2011 dodge charger prove even better than the '10 enforcer package?
- will ford's turbo-charged ford sell better its standard v6 version?
- will the awd package of the ford police car outsell fwd versions?
- will the chevrolet caprice outsell the aged impala fleet special? it is rumored to be the cheapest - this should garner more sales if bidding is a factor.
- will all three cars (chevy, ford, dodge) be overshadowed by crossover like the explorer or suv's like chevy's tahoe or the rumored dodge durango?

check out some preliminary results. each has its advantages!

http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/MSP-cars-2011.html

[Atomic]

 am not an officer; thus wonder why so many do not like floor shifters whatsoever (my informal interviews and reading). i did not probe. any takers as to why this seems to be a consensus (and can truly hurt chevrolet win over fleet buyers)? for civilians, i think most rather not contend with steering wheel shifters.

[hotrodalex]

am not an officer; thus wonder why so many do not like floor shifters whatsoever (my informal interviews and reading). i did not probe. any takers as to why this seems to be a consensus (and can truly hurt chevrolet win over fleet buyers)? for civilians, i think most rather not contend with steering wheel shifters.

Cops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.

[MX793]

Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.

The Caprice is actually a platform-mate to the Camaro and the Zeta platform is fairly closely related to the Sigma platform that underpins the Caddy CTS and STS (there is some component sharing between the two).

[Atomic]

Cops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.

i see. thanks!

[Catman]

i see. thanks!

If we had to go to a car with a floor shifter we would have to go to a totally different computer solution.  A rugged laptop won't work well in that environment.  We'd have to move to a terminal type computer which would add about $3000 per car.

[bing_oh]

Cops like to have laptops and such where the floor shifter is.

Not just laptops but lightbar and siren boxes, radios, etc. There are alot of controls for various thing in cruisers that need to be easily accessable while driving (and, sometimes, driving fast). That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.

[hotrodalex]

Not just laptops but lightbar and siren boxes, radios, etc. There are alot of controls for various thing in cruisers that need to be easily accessable while driving (and, sometimes, driving fast). That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.

I was including that stuff in the "and such" part.

[Atomic]

If we had to go to a car with a floor shifter we would have to go to a totally different computer solution.  A rugged laptop won't work well in that environment.  We'd have to move to a terminal type computer which would add about $3000 per car.

calling all taxpayers! yikes  .

[MaxPower]

Maybe I missed this, but when can we expect to see these cars on the street?

[bing_oh]

Maybe I missed this, but when can we expect to see these cars on the street?

I believe they're all 2011 model year.

[SVT_Power]

That center console area is the most convenient place for those things.

Probably why they put buttons on the center console to begin with 

[bing_oh]

With the talk about the console shifter in the Caprice well maybe this isn't the final model.  As long as GM has been making police package cars I'm sure they would know better.  Either way I think Ford will give up their sales lead in this field.

Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car.

[Mustangfan2003]

Wow that is dumb.  Looks like the Charger might be the better option to go with here. 

[NomisR]

Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car.

They'll create their version of the iDrive for cops..  then you'll have to scroll through 50 menus just to turn on your lights and sirens. 

[MX793]

Chevy was asked about this when they first announced the model. They said that the center shifter is final on the production car.

IIRC, it will be that way initially because they don't have any column shift parts for that car, but they are looking to move the shifter to the column in the future.

[hounddog]

Suspension parts, brakes, trim and whatnot could be a huge pain, but the drivetrain is extremely similar to ones GM offers in North America - the 3.6L V6 and 6.0L(?) V8 are very common here. I'd doubt that GM would bother to use unique parts for common items such as alternators and water pumps for the Australian market either, but I could be wrong.

You would be wrong. 

Police alternators are in the 200 amp range, with Ford using some type of "generator" system, or at least that what they were calling it last time I was involved.  Civilian models are, I believe, in the 115-130 amp range.

However, even with 200 amps police cars were running out of juice which is why LEDs became so popular; 1/4th or less of the amp draw over other more traditional lightbars.

Also, police cars use larger radiators, hoses and pumps than do their civilian counterparts so that they can sit at idle with the emergency lights going and remain cool and also so that they may out perform civilan cars in hard driving situations.

Generally, they use larger shocks/struts, different rate springs, larger diameter torsion bars, control arms, ball joints, different pads and rotors, bigger batteries.  The used to have heavier guage floor pans which were protected with skid plates, but that was awhile back, and I am not certain they still do that.  In fact, I am not sure they still use different parts in all those areas anymore.  (I guess I should be careful about reminding people I no longer have inside knowledge)

They also have engine oil and transmission fluid coolers.

Police cars look the same, but in many areas you can not see they are much different.

[hounddog]

IIRC, it will be that way initially because they don't have any column shift parts for that car, but they are looking to move the shifter to the column in the future.

That is mere excuse.  They simply wanted to see if the car was interesting to PDs. 

If it was, they would invest the cash to make the change. 

If not, then not.

[hounddog]

Anyone who claims a CVPI is fast is delusional.  It might FEEL fast because they are so unwieldy.  I would say that the improved road holding of the AWD Ford's is a big plus if the price is right.  All of them have acceptable acceleration and even with the top speed being limited on the Ford's it won't be a big issue.  I do think they shouldn't have limited the Ecoboost model though.  You look at some of the Highway Patrols out west.  131 mph isn't really good.

The CVPI was never an impressive vehicle speed-wise (or acceleration-wise). Any LEO who ever drove the LT1 Caprice and then switched to the CVPI knew that.

I remember reading an article about the new Ford and the price of the AWD. I don't remember exactly how much they planned on charging extra, but I do remember thinking that it was rather pricy. And, for the road warriors out in the desert, 131 isn't really a blazing fast top speed. For most of us city cops, it's very adequate. Realistically, I prefer good acceleration over super-fast top speeds. I don't think I've ever broken maybe 125 on duty...probably less, realistically.

However, if you look at the actual performance numbers the Crown Vic was on the same level as the Caprice.  

In fact, in many areas, the Crown Vic was as fast or faster than the LT-1 powered Caprice.  

The Caprice was often purchased with the electronic governor, so it was limited to 125ish.

People remember the Caprice as being a barn burner, and it was for 1996 which was the end of the line, but in reality it was no better than the Crown at the end of the line.

Bigger and nicer to drive, but not a better performer.  

The problem for the Ford is that it just never really stayed with the times, as evidenced by the V6 cars being better.