Cops Speeding in Non-Emergency Situations

[dazzleman]

I would have slapped you like a  woman, and then pee'd in your gas tank had you tried it with me.








And, so that everyone is clear here; the only time I have ever blurted out that I was a police officer is if I was carrying a firearm.  I was, and am, a believer that if I get stopped and the officer does not see my ID and I get a ticket then so be it. 

I have a similar sense of personal responsibility, Dave.  I am merely arguing the concept, as I described, in more of a technically clinical manner.   At least, that was how I started.

As I stated in my first post in this thread, there is a reason why most of us do not post here.  But, I thought I would try. 

I hope I'm not keeping you from posting here.  I always like to hear LEO opinions on these things.  I can understand why LEOs wouldn't post here, since conversations on these subjects usually go in the same direction.  There's not necessarily an absolute right or wrong.  It's a matter of degree, and people see it differently from different angles.

[dazzleman]

I added a bit more.

Well, thanks. 

Even though I literally wrote thousands of tickets, I only wrote maybe 1 out of maybe 5 cars I stopped.

I never would have though you were such a softie, Tony...

When I get pulled over, it's always a hardass cop.  I'm batting 1.000 on traffic stops, as in every single time I've been pulled over, I've driven off with a ticket in my pocket.  Never been let off once.  Not even a speed reduction.  I guess I suck at talking my way out of tickets.  That balances out with the fact that I rarely get pulled over.

But unlike some people, I don't blame the officer for ticketing me when it happens.  If I was doing what I was charged with, I can only blame myself for (a) doing it and (b) allowing myself to get nailed (it's usually more the latter, TBH  ).

The funny thing is, I almost did a ride-along a few years back with a cop who ticketed me for speeding in my town.  He was on duty that night, but they ended up assigning me to somebody else.  I was hoping I would get to ride with him; I think it would have been pretty funny.  I'd surely have reminded him that we had met previously...

[hounddog]

Quiet, collected people usually do not do well talking their way out of it.

The people who can actually talk their way out of a ticket are those who naturally smile most of the time, and have a very sincere personality.

For me, anyway.

[Vinsanity]

Possibly.

However, the point of my questions is to point out both the flaw in his argument and the double standard he is implying, or rather suggesting (?).

I'm not suggesting a double standard. I'm suggesting the same standard for every driver on the road.

[hounddog]

But;

An officer cannot, under what you have posted, write every driver or not write every driver.  

I think you should clarify more clearly what you mean, because following the logic of your posts everyone should either get a ticket or no one should get a ticket.

If that was not what you meant, so be it.  But what you wrote, or are suggesting, does not really make any logistical or practical sense.

[dazzleman]

Quiet, collected people usually do not do well talking their way out of it.

The people who can actually talk their way out of a ticket are those who naturally smile most of the time, and have a very sincere personality.

For me, anyway.

I guess your first line describes me.  I am pretty quiet and collected, especially in that situation.  I think I have a sincere personality, but when you get pulled over, you have only a very short time to 'engage' the officer in some way to give him second thoughts about ticketing you.  I don't think I can do that quickly enough, generally.  I'd need more practice I guess.

[Rupert]

Quiet, collected people usually do not do well talking their way out of it.

The people who can actually talk their way out of a ticket are those who naturally smile most of the time, and have a very sincere personality.

For me, anyway.

I'm quiet and collected, and I keep getting out of tickets.

[dazzleman]

I'm quiet and collected, and I keep getting out of tickets.

I think the cops just feel sorry for you.  You probably look like such a mess that they figure you can't afford the ticket...

[Vinsanity]

But;

An officer cannot, under what you have posted, write every driver or not write every driver. 

I think you should clarify more clearly what you mean, because following the logic of your posts everyone should either get a ticket or no one should get a ticket.

If that was not what you meant, so be it.  But what you wrote, or are suggesting, does not really make any logistical or practical sense.

All I'm saying is that personal connections with an LEO shouldn't be taken into consideration in deciding whether or not to issue a ticket. I know that's not reality, but if it were really a safety issue, then personal connections should have no bearing on the decision.

[dazzleman]

All I'm saying is that personal connections with an LEO shouldn't be taken into consideration in deciding whether or not to issue a ticket. I know that's not reality, but if it were really a safety issue, then personal connections should have no bearing on the decision.

No, personal connections really shouldn't be a consideration, especially for a more serious offense.

[hounddog]

I'm quiet and collected, and I keep getting out of tickets.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are out in the middle of the "outback" of the country where life in general is laid back and quiet. 

No?



And, Dave, my best advice would then be;

Do not make him chase you down, if you see him coming and you KNOW he is coming for you, pull over and turn on your four-ways.
Sincere smile and greeting to the officer.
Have your paperwork easily within reach and presentable inside of five seconds.
Vaguely admit to your transgression.
Give him a very short reason for speeding, "I am just trying to get home to xxx, I guess I pushed it too far."
Before he walks back to the car if he says, "I will be right back,"  tell him thank you.
When he returns if he does not have a ticket, be sure to thank him.
As you pull away yell out, "Dumbass!"

The people who did this for me, with a nice smile and a believable appearance of remorse, got away much more often than any other group.

I also respected people who took responsibility for their actions.

Of course, I am just one guy.  Others may completely disagree with me.

[hounddog]

All I'm saying is that personal connections with an LEO shouldn't be taken into consideration in deciding whether or not to issue a ticket. I know that's not reality, but if it were really a safety issue, then personal connections should have no bearing on the decision.

I see, and I agree in spirit.

I do, however, strongly disagree with respect to wives.

Of course, that only goes so far and so often.

[Vinsanity]

I'm glad that finally got sorted out. Sorry my previous posts came off with the wrong impression.

[dazzleman]

And, Dave, my best advice would then be;

Do not make him chase you down, if you see him coming and you KNOW he is coming for you, pull over and turn on your four-ways.
Sincere smile and greeting to the officer.
Have your paperwork easily within reach and presentable inside of five seconds.
Vaguely admit to your transgression.
Give him a very short reason for speeding, "I am just trying to get home to xxx, I guess I pushed it too far."
Before he walks back to the car if he says, "I will be right back,"  tell him thank you.
When he returns if he does not have a ticket, be sure to thank him.
As you pull away yell out, "Dumbass!"

The people who did this for me, with a nice smile and a believable appearance of remorse, got away much more often than any other group.

I also respected people who took responsibility for their actions.

Of course, I am just one guy.  Others may completely disagree with me.

That all sounds good, except for the 'dumbass' part....

I haven't gotten pulled over in over 10 years, so this isn't exactly a burning issue.  But last time I got pulled over, it took the cop over a mile to catch up to me...   I had no idea he was after me.  In fact, when I saw the flashing lights in the mirror, I thought he was going to another emergency since I didn't remember passing a cop.  A few seconds later, I realized that I was the emergency...   Because I was approaching the town line, they had radioed ahead for the other department to get involved if necessary, plus they had a backup from their own department.  So I ended up getting pulled over by 3 police cars....   It was pretty comical, actually.  The other two cars quickly left once they realized they just had a good guy with a heavy foot, rather than something worse.  After all that, there was no way I wasn't getting a ticket....

The best was that a bunch of wiseass teenagers came by as I was sitting there waiting for my ticket, and they slowed down and started laughing at me.  I even had to laugh myself.  It was pretty funny.  I don't take routine tickets very seriously.

[Rupert]

I think the cops just feel sorry for you.  You probably look like such a mess that they figure you can't afford the ticket...

I think sad saps get tickets more often, actually.

[dazzleman]

I think sad saps get tickets more often, actually.

Hardy har har.  Maybe you've just lucky enough to get pulled over by stoner cops, and your offering of some weed is enough to get you off for your violation.

It is pretty funny how you manage to get off the hook or fly below the radar, even going all the way back to school.

[Rupert]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are out in the middle of the "outback" of the country where life in general is laid back and quiet. 

No?

Haha, sure. I mean, I do live in an urban area of almost half a million, in a proper capital city of more than 200,000, but whatever.

I mostly get pulled over in non-standard situations, like by campus cops, Park Police, or old sheriff types who are really just jealous of the awesome time I'm having. I'm also really good at talking to cops.

[dazzleman]

Haha, sure. I mean, I do live in an urban area of almost half a million, in a proper capital city of more than 200,000, but whatever.

I mostly get pulled over in non-standard situations, like by campus cops, Park Police, or old sheriff types who are really just jealous of the awesome time I'm having. I'm also really good at talking to cops.

How many times have you gotten pulled over?

[Rupert]

Hardy har har.  Maybe you've just lucky enough to get pulled over by stoner cops, and your offering of some weed is enough to get you off for your violation.

It is pretty funny how you manage to get off the hook or fly below the radar, even going all the way back to school.

Skillz.

[Rupert]

How many times have you gotten pulled over?

Eh, four?

[James Young]

I would have slapped you like a  woman, and then pee'd in your gas tank had you tried it with me.   

And a video of that would reveal you guilty of possession of an inadequate weapon. . .

[Vinsanity]

last time I got off from getting ticketed, it was because the cop said that he ran out of tickets.

[hounddog]

Haha, sure. I mean, I do live in an urban area of almost half a million, in a proper capital city of more than 200,000, but whatever.

I did not mean it as a joke or sarcasm.  I had it in my mind that you lived in a very rural area.

[hounddog]

   
And a video of that would reveal you guilty of possession of an inadequate weapon. . .

OMG!  That is so funny!

[Rupert]

I did not mean it as a joke or sarcasm.  I had it in my mind that you lived in a very rural area.

Nope; never have. Small to mid-size cities.

[James Young]

Right . . .  Just thought I'd add a little levity to an otherwise uninspiring conversation.

[dazzleman]

We need you to bring us some inspiration, James.

[James Young]

The argument is non-ending because we cannot ascertain a discreet set of facts that clearly define who and what is correct and what is not.  The occurrences are too numerous and too diverse to quantify meaningfully.  LEOs such as hounddog will never see what civilians see as a problem within law enforcement and this would just as true of the Catholic Church or the UAW or other institutions as it is of law enforcement. 

LEOs misbehave and frequently that is because of the power attendant to their position.  For them to state otherwise is hypocritical.  However, to be fair, much of the behavior is so trivial as to be unworthy of extended discussion. 

How much effort do we put into correcting de minimus violations of a public trust?  That it is public should make it important; the fact that the violations are so trivial counters that. 

Make no mistake, some violations are serious and I have outlined many in these very fora.  Right now, in my old home town of Tulsa, about 12-18 officers are in various stages of investigation, indictment, trial or imprisonment for various crimes ranging from falsifying evidence and testimony, altering evidence, writing false reports, theft of drugs and cash, and misuse of public funds.  These are serious charges and hardly isolated to TPD.  I challenge each of our LEOs to make a deal with us and with their own conscience:  you turn in and testify against these kinds of malfeasance and we?ll ignore you when you let your friends get out of a ticket that most of us would have to pay.

[NomisR]

There are no established parameters as to where discretion ends, otherwise it would not be called "discretion."   

As for Joe Citizen, I expect nothing of the sort from them.  The general rule is the general public is uneducated on the law, and ignorant to their own rights.  And I will just gloss over the fact that the wide majority of citizens in this country are just plain ignorant and uneducated. 

How about the fact that there are so many obscure laws in our law books that everyone is breaking a law without every knowing it

http://hubpages.com/hub/Did-You-Know-The-Average-American-Commits-3-Felonies-a-Day

[Rupert]

When was the last time anyone went to jail for putting pills in a pill box? I just don't see that kind of thing as a problem.