Exhaust Broken. Ideas? (Pictures included)

[thewizard16]

Okay, so this has probably been rusted/brittle/poised to fail for a while now and I just didn't realize it, but this is still really annoying. Went to the post office today and they have a rather rough entrance (which is common in this part of town since all the streets are hilly and difficult to pave in a level fashion), and when I hit the entrance my car got about 500% louder and I felt some vibration in the floorboard. I instantly thought exhaust, but couldn't verify anything until I got home. Well, I got home (noisily), jacked it up, and took a look. Sure enough, part of the front exhaust is sheared off at the flex pipe. Obviously this needs replaced, but I'm not sure if I should attempt it (I think I could do it, I just need to borrow a lift or ramps or some such device), or if I should take it to the shop. After reading through a thread on Toyota Nation where someone had a small hole near there needing fixed and got price quotes, the part from Toyota is apparently $400, and Midas wanted $1300 because they claimed you have to replace the whole exhaust, so I'm understandably annoyed about this. Pictures are below. Thoughts and recommendations are appreciated. 

View from the back:


View from the side:


From the front:


Where it runs up to the engine in the front:


The whole assembly apparently looks like this:

[Rupert]

Okay, so this has probably been rusted/brittle/poised to fail for a while now and I just didn't realize it, but this is still really annoying. Went to the post office today and they have a rather rough entrance (which is common in this part of town since all the streets are hilly and difficult to pave in a level fashion), and when I hit the entrance my car got about 500% louder and I felt some vibration in the floorboard. I instantly thought exhaust, but couldn't verify anything until I got home. Well, I got home (noisily), jacked it up, and took a look. Sure enough, part of the front exhaust is sheared off at the flex pipe. Obviously this needs replaced, but I'm not sure if I should attempt it (I think I could do it, I just need to borrow a lift or ramps or some such device), or if I should take it to the shop. After reading through a thread on Toyota Nation where someone had a small hole near there needing fixed and got price quotes, the part from Toyota is apparently $400, and Midas wanted $1300 because they claimed you have to replace the whole exhaust, so I'm understandably annoyed about this. Pictures are below. Thoughts and recommendations are appreciated. 

Do you have something against "to be?" 

[Rupert]

I don't get how anything exhaust that's not a catalytic converter can be expensive. It's just bent tubing and a few quick welds.

[The Pirate]

Yeah, take it to an exhaust place.  Not a chain, a local place with gold ol' boys.  The sketchier the place looks, the better it is, in my experience.  I've done that a few times, and they are usually able to rig something up and get me out for less than $100.  The tubing broke on my Honda right in front of the resonator once, and I was on the highway, so by the time I stopped, the resonator itself was damage beyond salvaging.  They cut it out and welded a cherry bomb on.  Still had the muffler behind the cherry bomb, so it sounded barely different from stock. 

Tough to see from the photos, but if the pipe inside the thermal wrap is still intact enough to make purchase, then it should be fairly straightforward for creative exhaust guys.  I don't really consider Midas and the like true exhaust places, because they just want to replace everything and overcharge for it. 

[Speed_Racer]

Second the idea to take it to a local exhaust guy. I just had three pieces of exhaust repaired, including the flex pipe.

They replaced a 180 degree u-bend, a custom bent outlet before the tip, and a flex pipe. It all cost me $220. At least for me, the flex pipe is an easy fix - he didn't have to replace any other part of the exhaust to get at it.

It seems like Maaco is trying to rip you off.

[thewizard16]

Do you have something against "to be?" 

I apologize. It's a regionalism (apparently: http://ask.metafilter.com/148509/needs-replaced-v-needs-to-be-replaced), that has unfortunately burrowed itself into my brain and chosen to stay there. I'm actually quite literate when necessary .

Yeah, take it to an exhaust place.  Not a chain, a local place with gold ol' boys.  The sketchier the place looks, the better it is, in my experience.  I've done that a few times, and they are usually able to rig something up and get me out for less than $100.  The tubing broke on my Honda right in front of the resonator once, and I was on the highway, so by the time I stopped, the resonator itself was damage beyond salvaging.  They cut it out and welded a cherry bomb on.  Still had the muffler behind the cherry bomb, so it sounded barely different from stock. 

Tough to see from the photos, but if the pipe inside the thermal wrap is still intact enough to make purchase, then it should be fairly straightforward for creative exhaust guys.  I don't really consider Midas and the like true exhaust places, because they just want to replace everything and overcharge for it. 

Thanks. I hate Midas and wouldn't go there anyway, but I don't know anywhere reputable around here yet, so it makes me a little more cautious than normal. I think I'll do that this Thursday and see what they say. I have found the whole assembly available several places for a reasonable price now, and the installation isn't that difficult other than dealing with the rusted bolts, so I'm feeling a bit better about tackling this myself if I can't find a decent deal elsewhere.

[Rupert]

Yeah, hick regions.



I notice it a lot in cars ads. Makes Hulk angry!

[The Pirate]

I apologize. It's a regionalism (apparently: http://ask.metafilter.com/148509/needs-replaced-v-needs-to-be-replaced), that has unfortunately burrowed itself into my brain and chosen to stay there. I'm actually quite literate when necessary .
Thanks. I hate Midas and wouldn't go there anyway, but I don't know anywhere reputable around here yet, so it makes me a little more cautious than normal. I think I'll do that this Thursday and see what they say. I have found the whole assembly available several places for a reasonable price now, and the installation isn't that difficult other than dealing with the rusted bolts, so I'm feeling a bit better about tackling this myself if I can't find a decent deal elsewhere.

Re: finding a good place, I know what a pain it can be.  Do you have a regular mechanic that you trust?  Ask him, he's going to know who's good and honest, and who's not.  That's how I found my exhaust guy.  I've driven past his place before, but never ever would have stopped there of my own accord.  If your friends that don't drive brand new cars, ask them too.

Also, you work at a college, right?  Do they have an auto tech program?  If so, take it there.  A buddy of mine is in an auto tech program here, and they service cars of school employees, alumni, students for next to nothing (customer supplies parts).  

And google potentially comes through too.

http://littlerock.citysearch.com/profile/1541764/jacksonville_ar/marty_s_muffler_shop.html

[The Pirate]

Yeah, hick regions.



I notice it a lot in cars ads. Makes Hulk angry!

Regional dialects are awesome.  I will always call that carbonated soft drink "pop", I don't care how many looks I get.  And another Buffalo phenomenon is putting a "the" before the name of a highway.  So I frequently referred to roads here as "The 90" or the "The 787".  Talk about people looking at me like I just rolled out of the hills and need a shower...

[thewizard16]

Yeah, hick regions.



I notice it a lot in cars ads. Makes Hulk angry!

Hey now. http://ask.metafilter.com/84212/This-Needs-Answered It's apparently prevalent in regions where Scottish and Irish people immigrated and their word construction was mixed with English and passed down. In the US it's apparently prevalent in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana (it has also been discussed in the Boston Globe, I guess). I'd never write it that way in anything important, but it has been slipping in more often I guess.

[Rupert]

Regional dialects are awesome.  I will always call that carbonated soft drink "pop", I don't care how many looks I get.  And another Buffalo phenomenon is putting a "the" before the name of a highway.  So I frequently referred to roads here as "The 90" or the "The 787".  Talk about people looking at me like I just rolled out of the hills and need a shower...

It's a Forest Service thing to preface roads with "the," too. I'll say, "we were up on the 3920 road."

[Rupert]

Hey now. http://ask.metafilter.com/84212/This-Needs-Answered It's apparently prevalent in regions where Scottish and Irish people immigrated and their word construction was mixed with English and passed down. In the US it's apparently prevalent in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Indiana (it has also been discussed in the Boston Globe, I guess). I'd never write it that way in anything important, but it has been slipping in more often I guess.

Yeah, those are the hicks of Britain.

[thewizard16]

Re: finding a good place, I know what a pain it can be.  Do you have a regular mechanic that you trust?  Ask him, he's going to know who's good and honest, and who's not.  That's how I found my exhaust guy.  I've driven past his place before, but never ever would have stopped there of my own accord.  If your friends that don't drive brand new cars, ask them too.

Also, you work at a college, right?  Do they have an auto tech program?  If so, take it there.  A buddy of mine is in an auto tech program here, and they service cars of school employees, alumni, students for next to nothing (customer supplies parts). 

And google potentially comes through too.

http://littlerock.citysearch.com/profile/1541764/jacksonville_ar/marty_s_muffler_shop.html

The only mechanic I know well enough to trust is in Mtn. Home, AR. Even when I lived in Fayetteville, I had my work done in Mountain Home when I could. Most of my friends use the dealerships, so I'll have to do some searching of my own.

I don't work for the University anymore, but it didn't have any technical programs at all, just your typical large state university.

Thanks for the google link. That place is 20 miles away from here (Jacksonville is a pretty far north suburb), so I'll probably try to find someplace a little closer if possible (I really don't like driving it like this, I don't want to go far if I can avoid it). Still, thanks for the help and I'll keep searching around on here for some place promising.

[thewizard16]

Yeah, those are the hicks of Britain.

Now I'm a bit confused as to where I picked up that habit. My ancestry is overwhelmingly German, and my family has never lived in any of those areas. I do have extended family in Ohio, but I don't think the rare visit would cause that... 

[Rupert]

Are you wearing a wife beater?

[thewizard16]

Are you wearing a wife beater?

I don't own a wife beater, I drive camries, and I live in a small house on a tiny lot in the middle of a middle class neighborhood. I don't think it came from there.

[Rupert]

Tiny house? Did it get there on the back of a tuck?

[thewizard16]

Tiny house? Did it get there on the back of a tuck?

Not on the back of a tuck, or a buck, or a duck, or a ... well, that's all I've got.
I said middle class! I don't think you're allowed to have trailers in this part of town. (And it'd hardly be justifiable as expensive as the lots would be.)

[Rupert]

Ha, stupid "R" key...

[VTEC_Inside]

Why would they have put a flex section off the rear bank? Its not like its going to move relative to the front bank.

Find a decent exhaust shop and they will be able to drop the whole assembly and replace that flex section for you.

$400 isn't too bad for the part though if its OEM.

You could change it yourself, but be aware that the exhaust bolts can be an extraordinary pain in the ass. For me it would depend on how easily you can access the nuts holding it to the manifold. In any case, I strongly suggest replacing all the fasteners when you re-install it.

[S204STi]

Flex pipes are the suckage. Almost always break eventually...

[thewizard16]

Why would they have put a flex section off the rear bank? Its not like its going to move relative to the front bank.

Find a decent exhaust shop and they will be able to drop the whole assembly and replace that flex section for you.

$400 isn't too bad for the part though if its OEM.

You could change it yourself, but be aware that the exhaust bolts can be an extraordinary pain in the ass. For me it would depend on how easily you can access the nuts holding it to the manifold. In any case, I strongly suggest replacing all the fasteners when you re-install it.

Okay- So here's the plan. I'm going to go to an exhaust shop tomorrow to have someone look at it. I still haven't figured out where since the only ones in the yellow pages that mention "exhaust" are the big chains, but I'll figure it out. If they think the pipe is too rusted to weld a new one in, or a new one can't be welded in for whatever reason, I'll probably end up doing this myself. I've found the whole front pipe assembly for under $200 from reputable brands, and even though the bolts are likely to be problematic, I think if I pull it up on ramps I could access everything relatively directly. (Very few projects involving this engine bay could be described as "easy", but this doesn't look too bad, especially by its standards.)

As someone who has never done an exhaust project before- what fasteners would I need to make sure are ordered if I do replace this part myself?

I decided to go out and take off the cover to get a better look at it's attachment point. First, I banged my hand on the sharpest piece of metal I could find in the engine bay. Once I got done bleeding and cursing, I took it off and snapped a few pictures. I think the one below is a better look than the rest.

Picture from the top where the pipe comes up and attaches on the front:

I actually think this section would be pretty simple to get to and get apart. The back section's attachment isn't visible from above, so I'll have to get under it again to see how that looks.

[VTEC_Inside]

You'll need new gaskets for both the manifolds and of course the other end too.

As far as fasteners, new self locking nuts for the manifold ends (I'm assuming the manifolds have studs), and new bolts/self locking nuts for the other end. For the manifold ends you'll need to know the size/thread pitch or just order them at the dealer. For the other end, whatever fits.

Also look up the torque specs and order if applicable that you are supposed to tighten the manifold bolts. I'll also recommend not listening to that torque number. Tighten snug and then start the engine. Then progressively snug up till the leaks stop.

[The Pirate]

If you end up doing it yourself, get a big can of PB Blaster.  The night before you start the job, spray down every bolt that you'll have to remove liberally.  Letting it soak in over night will really help with getting things off as painlessly as possible.

[thewizard16]

If you end up doing it yourself, get a big can of PB Blaster.  The night before you start the job, spray down every bolt that you'll have to remove liberally.  Letting it soak in over night will really help with getting things off as painlessly as possible.

I love PB Blaster, despite the likelihood that it is probably causing some cancer every time I use it. I bought some (luckily) a few days ago for another project I was working on, so I have quite a bit on hand. We'll see what the verdict is tomorrow and I'll go/ask for advice from there.

[VTEC_Inside]

I love PB Blaster, despite the likelihood that it is probably causing some cancer every time I use it. I bought some (luckily) a few days ago for another project I was working on, so I have quite a bit on hand. We'll see what the verdict is tomorrow and I'll go/ask for advice from there.

PB Blaster may be the shit, but I don't even touch exhaust stuff anymore without having my extractor sockets handy. Those bolts along the pipe are almost always crumbling to shit.

[thewizard16]

Win! (At least for now)- Found an exhaust place that seemed reputable (in a sketch-tastic part of town) that was able to cut out the old section and weld in a new flex pipe pretty quickly. Cost me under $80, which is still quite a bit for no more than those cost/how long it took them, but for the time and frustration it saved me, it was definitely worth it.

[VTEC_Inside]

Win! (At least for now)- Found an exhaust place that seemed reputable (in a sketch-tastic part of town) that was able to cut out the old section and weld in a new flex pipe pretty quickly. Cost me under $80, which is still quite a bit for no more than those cost/how long it took them, but for the time and frustration it saved me, it was definitely worth it.

That is win for sure.

Don't feel bad about the $80 either. I spent $100 once to have a shop cut out a bolt I had given up on and mount the replacement pipe I had already bought.

[Rupert]

Good job. Much better than buying a $400 part and struggling for two days to get it in.

[thewizard16]

That is win for sure.

Don't feel bad about the $80 either. I spent $100 once to have a shop cut out a bolt I had given up on and mount the replacement pipe I had already bought.

If he'd thrown out more than $100 I might have asked him why, and attempted to haggle. I think he half expected me to haggle at the $79 number because he said "It'd be $79 before tax" and looked at me a bit questioningly . I guess since I knew what was wrong with it and what needed to be done he probably figured I knew how cheap the part he was putting in was too, haha. Oh well, he didn't gouge as much as he could have, so I was cool with it.

Good job. Much better than buying a $400 part and struggling for two days to get it in.

Absolutely! I found the part for a little under $200 elsewhere, which was a really good deal and was what motivated me to just do it myself if they tried to screw me on the price for fixing it, but the time and frustration it would have taken make me very glad I don't have to do that right now.

Now I just need to find time to go have the valve cover gaskets replaced.