Edmunds Inside Line: 2011 BMW 550i vs. 2011 Infiniti M56 Comparison Test

[CJ]

I think the M56 is WAY better looking than the new 550i. WAY better. It's a stunner with those 20" wheels.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

[GoCougs]

The 550i is so bland and so generic.My gods, what styling disaster. At least M-B is taking some chances (still don't like the E-class either).

[850CSi]

The M56, like every other Infiniti, is ugly.

Honestly, this test just reaffirms my lack of desire to own any car made after 2003 (well I guess besides the one I've had for 5 years now). I need to learn how to fix shit myself, because my next car will probably be at least 20-25 years old when I buy it.

[hotrodalex]

heat dissipation and to fight brake fade

Yes, and improve stopping distances. You guys are certifiably insane if you think tires are the only thing that influences it.

[Rich]

Yes, and improve stopping distances. You guys are certifiably insane if you think tires are the only thing that influences it.

If there's a covering of snow on the ground, you think better brakes will help you stop faster?

It's the same deal on asphalt.  You can still lock the tires up on dry ground and snow, the only thing that will help you stop better in either situation is tires

[hotrodalex]

If there's a covering of snow on the ground, you think better brakes will help you stop faster?

It's the same deal on asphalt.  You can still lock the tires up on dry ground and snow, the only thing that will help you stop better in either situation is tires

So explain why different cars have different stopping distances, even with the same tires. And they are the same layout, similar suspension design.

And again, as I said before, there are also different ABS systems which may allow the brakes to get closer to locking up than other systems. This would also improve the distance and explain the BMW's performance.

Obviously the tires aren't the only factor in the BMW's distance, as they are all-seasons and not dedicated summer tires.

[Rich]

So explain why different cars have different stopping distances, even with the same tires. And they are the same layout, similar suspension design.

And again, as I said before, there are also different ABS systems which may allow the brakes to get closer to locking up than other systems. This would also improve the distance and explain the BMW's performance.

Obviously the tires aren't the only factor in the BMW's distance, as they are all-seasons and not dedicated summer tires.

In this case, I could fathom that the BMW has a suspension that helps more in braking or weight distribution that helps in braking more than the M56.  I could also fathom that the BMW's all seasons are just as grippy as the Infiniti's summer tires under braking.  

Definitely not the brakes though.  Just depends on how much grip each car's tire patches have, whether it is due to weight balance, tire compound, tread pattern, or suspension design

[hotrodalex]

In this case, I could fathom that the BMW has a suspension that helps more in braking or weight distribution that helps in braking more than the M56.  I could also fathom that the BMW's all seasons are just as grippy as the Infiniti's summer tires under braking.  

Definitely not the brakes though.  Just depends on how much grip each car's tire patches have, whether it is due to weight balance, tire compound, tread pattern, or suspension design

So you're saying you won't mind if I take the brakes off my Saturn tonight and put them on your Mustang?

Cuz I think you would beg me to put the Mustang brakes back on after you drove around the block.

But again, this is still off the main point - the BMW's all seasons are not what allows it to stop in almost the same distance (even if the brakes aren't the reason either). They do not handle as well as the summer tires, meaning Edmunds' was wrong to assume so.

[Rich]

So you're saying you won't mind if I take the brakes off my Saturn tonight and put them on your Mustang?

Cuz I think you would beg me to put the Mustang brakes back on after you drove around the block.

Well for a stop or two, I wouldn't mind at all.

For repeated use at a track day?  heck no

I just looked up the tires both cars used in the test.  the BMWs are really summer tires..

Look for yourself:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Excellence

[hotrodalex]

They're performance all-seasons, but still not on the same level as the Infiniti's Bridgestones. But I'm not gonna continue arguing, as the only way to truly know is if we put the Bridgestones on the BMW, which no one on this board has the means to do.

And believe when I say this, you do not want the brakes from my Saturn.

[Rich]

They're performance all-seasons,

LOL what

Excellence(Grand Touring Summer)

Grand Touring Summer tires are for drivers who want a combination of sophisticated appearance, competent handling and H-speed rated (or higher) durability, along with dry and wet traction from their tires. Often used as Original Equipment (O.E.) on sophisticated coupes and luxurious performance sedans, Grand Touring Summer tires are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

I will admit that they aren't on the same level as the Bridgestones, though

[hotrodalex]

A lot of performance-oriented all-seasons say that. Heck, even regular all-seasons aren't very good in winter weather.

[Rich]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/goodyear/goodyear-tires.jsp

UTQG is 240 on the goodyears,  a lot less than the 400-700 all season tires usually run.

From what I've read about UTQG, there really isn't a set standard for comparisons, so I guess just take these with a grain of salt

[the Teuton]

Why does everyone always think the model that preceded nearly any new car is better than the model that replaces it? It's kind of annoying.

I shall explain. Let's take the best E39 that normal people bought, the 530i. It weighed about 3,600 lbs., or a little lighter than a new M3. It had rack and pinion steering, 230 hp or so, and it came with an optional 5-speed manual. The car was a delight to drive fast because it was as communicative as a 3 Series and it could waft along the road with aplomb.

My biggest issues with it: The thin-rim steering wheel sucks ass and the while the materials are good, the design ages like mold on warm cheese.

Enter the E60 replacement. Let's take the best version of that car, the 535i. It's my pick of the litter because it has seemingly limitless torque and weighs a shade over 3,800 lbs. The steering isn't as communicative, but it's still decent. The ride is smoother than the old car's, but it can still handle when pushed. While it's technically a better handler, it doesn't feel as confident as the old car, though. But it's a much more livable car with a back seat sized for normal people and it feels like a much more modern car.

The downside to it is that it's a "softer" car. Seriously, unless you're having fun with it, you might as well have a Buick LaCrosse. They ride about the same on the highway.

Also, to get all of the fun stuff, you have to pay for it. I once drove a 550i that was amazingly well-equipped, but it cost $72,000, or as much as the god-like E39 M5 when it was new. Lastly, it's ugly -- not understated like its predecessor -- and it's nowhere close to being as intuitive as the old car with the iDrive. What's wrong with having a few redundant buttons for the sake of argument?

So now we enter a car that costs more, weighs more, has indistinct styling (albeit better than the E60's imo), has a softer, wallowy suspension, imprecise steering, and while it's technologically awesome, it's not quite an "ultimate driving machine."

That's why the love has been lost for this car.

And between higher sills, heavier cars, lousy sightlines, and electro nannies that dilute the driving experience in more and more cars, it's not just a BMW problem; it's an industry problem.

Nothing sounds like an NA I6. Nothing shifts like a BMW manual transmission. And nothing moves like a lighter car, wider tires and torque vectoring, physics-defying technology be damned.

[omicron]

And it's not hard at all to find E39 530i estates, either:

[MX793]

I betcha they would improve stopping times with better brakes. Why would companies waste extra development dollars on better brakes if the tires were the only things that mattered?

And we've gotten off track. I originally brought this up because Edmunds is stupid to say the all-seasons are just as good as the Infiniti's summer rubber. In order to tell for sure, we would have to put the same tires on the BMW, but I don't have the resources to do so. But I bet the BMW simply has better brakes than the Infiniti, which leads to the close stopping distances, even with the tire disadvantage. But the chassis can't make up for it, leading to the worse performance in the handling tests.

There are a number of factors that affect braking distance.

1)  Tires:  by far the largest factor in stopping distance

2)  Vehicle Weight:  A heavier car will have more kinetic energy and require more energy, and force, to stop over the same distance.  A heavier car's momentum is more apt to overwhelm the tires.

3)  Brake hardware (calipers, pads and rotors):  Obviously a factor, though once you have brakes that can generate enough force to lock up the tires, fitting even stronger braking components will have negligible effect on stopping distance.

4)  Brake software:  In these times of ABS, a more sophisticated system capable of holding the brakes closer to the friction threshold will result in shorter stopping distances.

5)  Weight distribution:  Rubber is funny stuff.  Its coefficient of friction goes down as it is compressed.  A car with a more rearward weight bias can better utilize the braking force of all 4 tires as weight shifts forward during braking.

6)  Suspension:  Road surfaces are not perfectly smooth.  If the suspension does not keep the wheel in contact with the ground over bumps, the tire is not going to grip.  Also, camber tends to change with suspension movement for most suspension types.  This can reduce the contact patch and increase shear stress in the tires as the front end dives under braking.

7)  Road surface:  Different surfaces offer different levels of grip.  Not really worth considering this because there's nothing you can do to the vehicle to address this.

As to your first question, there's more to brakes than simply stopping power.  Fade resistance (the real reason for high performance pads and large, vented rotors) over repeated hard stops is always a concern.  Progressiveness of force application and feedback are also of concern.

To illustrate the minimal effect of bigger and more powerful hardware, C&D tested an '03 350Z Track (Brembo brake package) that stopped from 70 mph in 164 ft.  The same year they tested a Touring model (with the smaller, standard brakes but using the same tires) that stopped in 163 ft (for all intents and purposes, the same distance).  If the braking hardware were that critical, the Brembo-equipped car with much larger rotors and stronger calipers would have stopped well shorter.

Now, to compare cars with the same brakes but different tires, both C&D and Edmunds have done All-season vs summer vs snow tire comparisons.  Both found that performance summer tires stopped ~10 ft shorter from 60 mph than performance all-seasons in the dry.

[MX793]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/goodyear/goodyear-tires.jsp

UTQG is 240 on the goodyears,  a lot less than the 400-700 all season tires usually run.

From what I've read about UTQG, there really isn't a set standard for comparisons, so I guess just take these with a grain of salt

A low wear rating does not indicate whether a tire is all-season or summer, nor does it necessarily indicate how much grip a tire offers.  The all-season Eagle RS-As that came on my Mazda had a UTOG of 260.

[cawimmer430]

The new F10 5er is handsome but a little on the extremely conservative side. The problem I have is that most of the F10 5ers I see here have cheap rims (and a cheaper exterior trim) which makes them not stand out at all. It's the same with the new W212 E-Class: they don't stand out in base Classic or taxi trim. But - give the F10 and W212 some proper rims and exterior trim and they can look really sexy and downright gorgeous.

Here's an example. 

[SJ_GTI]

I checked out the pictures on edmunds and both cars looked pretty nice to me.

The 5-series in particular looks like a big improvement vs the E60. Styling wise it looks similar to the current 3er, and I would even say it looks more familiar to the E39 (again, just my opinion).

[sportyaccordy]

Why does everyone always think the model that preceded nearly any new car is better than the model that replaces it? It's kind of annoying.

Because as of late they are (for cars that matter; nobody cares about Toyota Yarises)

Cars that are supposed to be driver oriented are getting bigger, uglier and more isolated. What about that is progress for the enthusiast?

I think the M56 is WAY better looking than the new 550i. WAY better. It's a stunner with those 20" wheels.

You hate anything from Germany, due to their role in WWII

Neither of these cars make for entertaining propositions, at their price points anyway. Too much bloat, too much tech, too much motor trying to mask the dynamic flaws. Give me a low mileage E39 M5 for 35% of what either of these cars cost

[CALL_911]

The new F10 5er is handsome but a little on the extremely conservative side. The problem I have is that most of the F10 5ers I see here have cheap rims (and a cheaper exterior trim) which makes them not stand out at all. It's the same with the new W212 E-Class: they don't stand out in base Classic or taxi trim. But - give the F10 and W212 some proper rims and exterior trim and they can look really sexy and downright gorgeous.

Here's an example. 

Not a fan of those rims.

[hotrodalex]

Not a fan of those rims.

Really? They seem like a nice clean design. A little sporty, but still classy. Fits the car.

[68_427]

They are winter rims anyways.

[Cookie Monster]

Nothing sounds like an NA I6. Nothing shifts like a BMW manual transmission. And nothing moves like a lighter car, wider tires and torque vectoring, physics-defying technology be damned.

The transmission in my friend's M5 feels very notchy and has really long throws compared to the Miata. I don't like it at all. It's not smooth and fluid.

[the Teuton]

The transmission in my friend's M5 feels very notchy and has really long throws compared to the Miata. I don't like it at all. It's not smooth and fluid.

Read my review. It feels like that of a modern day muscle car...which fits the character of the car perfectly.

[sportyaccordy]

Read my review. It feels like that of a modern day muscle car...which fits the character of the car perfectly.

Where's the review?

[Cookie Monster]

Read my review. It feels like that of a modern day muscle car...which fits the character of the car perfectly.

I disagree. I think it's supposed to feel like a super fast, super well handling luxury car, not muscle car.

It rides quite well around town and on the freeway, yet it handles like its on rails (ok, so my friend's car may have Koni coilovers, but still...), it's quiet and subdued and it has the smoothest engine of any car I've been in. You can't feel any vibrations or anything at any point in the rev band. I don't understand why they made the shifter so weird and notchy. I much preferred the one in the E60 530i I drove.

[Cookie Monster]

I really like the M56's styling.

I hate the BMW's nose. It just looks terrible in both pictures and in person.

However, I'd get the BMW since it comes with a stick.

[the Teuton]

Where's the review?

My blog.

[the Teuton]

I disagree. I think it's supposed to feel like a super fast, super well handling luxury car, not muscle car.

It rides quite well around town and on the freeway, yet it handles like its on rails (ok, so my friend's car may have Koni coilovers, but still...), it's quiet and subdued and it has the smoothest engine of any car I've been in. You can't feel any vibrations or anything at any point in the rev band. I don't understand why they made the shifter so weird and notchy. I much preferred the one in the E60 530i I drove.

Believe it or not, the shifter in the E60 is pretty much carryover from the M5. It could just be your friend's car.