2010 C&D Lightning Lap

[the Teuton]

Top Gear also doesn't sling the cars sideways in a mud pit to see which is quicker.

[r0tor]

Useful if you live on a rally track. 

Do the roads you live by more resemble rough roads with varying surface condition or super smoothed and super clean race tracks

[Onslaught]

The difference is not that negligible.  Top Gear slammed the new STI when comparing it to the Evo X. 

I love Top Gear. But I wouldn't use them as my main source of auto info. The Sti still did a better lap time in the end.
And it's not a POS Mitsu, that helps too.

[SVT666]

I love Top Gear. But I wouldn't use them as my main source of auto info. The Sti still did a better lap time in the end.
And it's not a POS Mitsu, that helps too.

Yeah, the only thing that would stop me from buying an Evo over an STi is the fact that it's a Mitsubishi.

[Onslaught]

Yeah, the only thing that would stop me from buying an Evo over an STi is the fact that it's a Mitsubishi.

I've always said that Mitsu was the ass crack of the Japanese car manufactures.

[MX793]

I've always said that Mitsu was the ass crack of the Japanese car manufactures.

I think that distinction might actually go to Isuzu.

[Raza]

I love Top Gear. But I wouldn't use them as my main source of auto info. The Sti still did a better lap time in the end.
And it's not a POS Mitsu, that helps too.

Did it? 

[Raza]

Yeah, the only thing that would stop me from buying an Evo over an STi is the fact that it's a Mitsubishi.

Same here.

But then again, I drove an Evo VIII and an STI pretty much back to back.  The STI made you feel silly and bored when you weren't pushing it, the Evo felt special all the time.  The STI fails on that alone.  It could lap the Nurburgring in four minutes, but if it feels like it can't, I don't give a shit. 

[Onslaught]

Did it? 

Well, if I recall the time slip caught fire so people couldn't see the Subi did a better time after he bashed it the whole show.

[MrH]

1) The difference is negligible WRT street driving.

2) If rally holds no allure for you, and you drive on pavement 100% of the time, then why are you purchasing a compromised rally car over one of the many available traditional sports cars?

1)  I disagree

2)  I'm not considered one.  That's my point, I never would.  It doesn't make sense to me.

[Tave]

I'm not considered one.  That's my point, I never would.  It doesn't make sense to me.

Then why are you interjecting yourself into a conversation about the Evo and STi?

[MrH]

So if it's not a car I would ever buy, I can't discuss it?

[Tave]

So if it's not a car I would ever buy, I can't discuss it?

Yes. If rally cars don't make sense to you, then you're a poor judge of what makes a rally car good.

[MrH]

I'm not questioning what makes a good rally car.  I'm questioning the point of designing street cars for rally conditions, and why anyone would buy an STI if they didn't have any intention of rally racing it.

[Cookie Monster]

1) The difference is negligible WRT street driving.

2) If rally holds no allure for you, and you drive on pavement 100% of the time, then why are you purchasing a compromised rally car over one of the many available traditional sports cars?

Because you want something with 4 doors and AWD that's still super fun to drive?

And even if the Evo isn't as good at driving on dirt, it's not like it's a terrible rally car. It's just optimized for being used on asphalt which is what most people will do with the car. For occasional dirt use I'm sure the Evo is fine.

[Tave]

I'm questioning the point of designing street cars for rally conditions

Which is why you're a bad judge of the Evo and STi. They are both street cars designed for rally conditions.

And even if the Evo isn't as good at driving on dirt, it's not like it's a terrible rally car. It's just optimized for being used on asphalt which is what most people will do with the car. For occasional dirt use I'm sure the Evo is fine.

Agreed. I said this a page ago:

The STi is optimized for rally conditions. The STi does the job it was supposed to, the Mitsu sacrifices a little bit in exchange for more on-road prowess.

[the Teuton]

I think I lost the point of this debate. 

[sportyaccordy]

99% of EVO/STi buyers are not getting these cars to go rallying in them. LOL @ buying a $40K car with a high insurance premium and restrictive warranty to go mudbogging.

For all intents and purposes these are road cars. So in that context whichever car is better on the road is, for 99% of its market, the better car.

[Tave]

Mudbogging?


Anyway, no, your logic doesn't hold. By extension 99% of Ferrari drivers just use them to put-put around town, therefore the Toyota Corolla is a better car.




Also, y'all need to keep some perspective. I admitted, in one of my first posts, that the Mitsu only sacrifices "a little bit" to the Subaru in the dirt. Likewise, the STi gives up a little bit to the EVO on pavement. We're talking about small degrees, not giant increments. Joe Smith the car buyer doesn't live next to a rally stage, but he also doesn't live next to Laguna Seca.

[r0tor]

Real world roads are closer to tarmac rally courses (which no duh since they are real roads) then a race track.  The evo does better on a race track since its stiffer, but the sti works better in real life.

[sportyaccordy]

Mudbogging?


Anyway, no, your logic doesn't hold. By extension 99% of Ferrari drivers just use them to put-put around town, therefore the Toyota Corolla is a better car.

Yea but the Ferrari is still a road car. Like, the enhancements made to it for the race track extend to added driving pleasure to the grocery store (if you live near some curves). What the STi gives up for more rally prowess is basically a general loss

[Nethead]

All we can do here is get 4-Wheel & Off-Road Magazine to run the LL1s, LL2s, LL3s, LL4s, and LL5s in next year's Baja 1000.  Raptors run the Baja 1000 in a class designated "Stock-Engined Truck" so these cars might run in a class designated "Stock-Engined Car"--unless such a class already exists in the 1000, which would be handy.  

When the dust settles, a winner will be evident.  Otherwise, we're pissin' upwind.

[Rupert]

Yea but the Ferrari is still a road car. Like, the enhancements made to it for the race track extend to added driving pleasure to the grocery store (if you live near some curves). What the STi gives up for more rally prowess is basically a general loss

Enhancements like a stiff as shit suspension? Yeah, that sounds awesome with all the little bumps in the road. A Ferrari is further from the ideal around-town "real-world" car than the STi is, that's for sure.

[Raza]

I haven't driven the newest models, but I have had seat time in the STI (hawkeye) and the Evo VIII.  The Evo's suspension was slightly stiffer, but was better to drive 100% of the time.  There was never a moment behind the wheel of the Evo that I thought it was too harsh. 

[Tave]

Too bad these aren't the old models.

[Raza]

Too bad these aren't the old models.

I'm just saying that I haven't seen anything persuasive enough to make me believe the story has changed.  Although, if the STI is the wallowy pig the 2008 WRX was, I wouldn't buy one for free. 

[NomisR]

I'm just saying that I haven't seen anything persuasive enough to make me believe the story has changed.  Although, if the STI is the wallowy pig the 2008 WRX was, I wouldn't buy one for free. 

I wouldn't really consider the 08 STi a wallowy pig.. it's an understeering pig, yes.. but it's no boat.  You can literally power your way through corners though.. just have to learn to trust the car.. it's a different type of fun.