Current generation BMW M3 to be last naturally aspirated M car

[Cookie Monster]

So could anything else going 74.3 or more miles/hr. 

LOLOL!



Well played.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yeah, I'd check that premise. Not only is the N52 down 500 cc/61 cubic inches and ~30 - 70 hp, the block is comprised primarily of magnesium (less dense than aluminum) and uses aluminum cylinder sleeves. The Toyota V6 is all aluminum and uses cast iron sleeves.

It's not just aluminum sleeves, it's an entire inner block that is composed of aluminium. The magnesium alloy is only an outer shell.

[Tave]

What do they mix with the magnesium?

[GoCougs]

It's not just aluminum sleeves, it's an entire inner block that is composed of aluminium. The magnesium alloy is only an outer shell.

Nah, most of the block is Mg. Also a bit of Googling says that BMW employed hollow camshafts too.

[Galaxy]

I challenge anyone to try to prove that a modern inline-6 doesn't weigh substantially more than a modern V6.

The N52 is said to have the lowest weight per hp of any 6 cylinder engine. Wikipedia lists "1.24 hp per kilogram with the latest version."

[Galaxy]

What do they mix with the magnesium?

Aluminium. 

[r0tor]

High relevancy...

[sportyaccordy]

Nah, most of the block is Mg. Also a bit of Googling says that BMW employed hollow camshafts too.

Hollow camshafts are hardly a new thing or a super weight saver... Ford used them on the 4.6 DOHC for example.

Again, BMW M54 I6 is 170kg, wholly comparable to the weight of the aluminum shell/iron sleeve 3.0 V6s of its time, lets continue to the next point for you to be completely wrong on.

[GoCougs]

Hollow camshafts are hardly a new thing or a super weight saver... Ford used them on the 4.6 DOHC for example.

Again, BMW M54 I6 is 170kg, wholly comparable to the weight of the aluminum shell/iron sleeve 3.0 V6s of its time, lets continue to the next point for you to be completely wrong on.

Magnesium is only ~2/3 the density of aluminum, and considering how much of it the BMW inline-6 uses of it (the majority of the block is Mg) I'm guesstimating a weight savings of 15 kg. Add in the aluminum liners and hollow cams and I'm guesstimating another 5 kg. Thus, with same materials as those employed in the average V6:

BMW N52 - 161 181 kg
Toyota 2GR-FE (Camry, ES350) - 163 kg
Toyota 2GR-FSE (Lexus IS350)- 174 kg

Plus, again, the N52 is down 500 cc and ~30 - 70 hp.

Sorry, guys, I win this round. Inline-6 is an archaic design.

[Galaxy]

Sorry, guys, I win this round. Inline-6 is an archaic design.

If it is so archaic why are the BMW I6ers one of the most awarded engines today?

[GoCougs]

If it is so archaic why are the BMW I6ers one of the most awarded engines today?

Many of those same "awards" are also won by pooprod motors too.

[giant_mtb]

This thread is probably the same shit you'd hear in an engineer's meeting.

[sportyaccordy]

I'm guesstimating

Not valid, sorry.

Lets look at engines all of the same vintage:
BMW M54- 170kg
3MZ-FE- 160kg
VQ30DE- 150kg

If 20-40lbs on a 350lb engine renders it obsolete then yes the inline engine is obsolete

More accurate comparos would be between inline and vee engines from the same manufacturer with the same displacement from the same material. No such modern combo exists.

I6 died out because you can't fit a decent sized one in a regular FWD traverse layout car.

[Galaxy]

Many of those same "awards" are also won by pooprod motors too.

Well, one has to admit it is amazing what GM has done with the Corvettes LS in recent years.

[r0tor]

This thread is probably the same shit you'd hear in an engineer's meeting.

No, because if you gave an engineer a blank slate to design a piston engine they would build a I6 or V12 because of being perfectly balanced.  A bean counter meeting would care about how cheaply it could be made.

[Mustangfan2003]

Many of those same "awards" are also won by pooprod motors too.

Doesn't your beloved Camaro use an ancient pushrod engine?

[GoCougs]

Well, one has to admit it is amazing what GM has done with the Corvettes LS in recent years.

Doesn't your beloved Camaro use an ancient pushrod engine?

True, but that doesn't make a pooprod not archaic.

[MX793]

Magnesium is only ~2/3 the density of aluminum, and considering how much of it the BMW inline-6 uses of it (the majority of the block is Mg) I'm guesstimating a weight savings of 15 kg. Add in the aluminum liners and hollow cams and I'm guesstimating another 5 kg. Thus, with same materials as those employed in the average V6:

BMW N52 - 161 181 kg
Toyota 2GR-FE (Camry, ES350) - 163 kg
Toyota 2GR-FSE (Lexus IS350)- 174 kg

Plus, again, the N52 is down 500 cc and ~30 - 70 hp.

Sorry, guys, I win this round. Inline-6 is an archaic design.

The N52 is only 10 kg lighter than its predecessor, meaning that had they stuck with traditional "all aluminum" for the cast block, it's still only a 171 kg motor.  Still right in the ballpark with 3L class V6 engines.

[GoCougs]

The N52 is only 10 kg lighter than its predecessor, meaning that had they stuck with traditional "all aluminum" for the cast block, it's still only a 171 kg motor.  Still right in the ballpark with 3L class V6 engines.

Sorry, don't buy it. With 1/3 weight savings in the block is alone worth way more than 10 kg. Plus, many 3.0L V6s were closed deck blocks such as the Toyota 3.0L DOHC V6 (MZ)

[giant_mtb]

Y'all know so much about engines it's riDQulous.

[sportyaccordy]

True, but that doesn't make a pooprod not archaic.

How does cylinder arrangement render a block archaic?

How is an inline 6 more archaic than say, an inline 4?

How is a pushrod V8 more high tech or modern than a DOHC VVL VVT inline 6?

[giant_mtb]

I love my 2.0T.