Ask and You Shall Receive: Diesel Fueled Jeeps

[SVT666]

Serious offroaders use gasoline engines because diesels are so goddamn heavy.  A Chevy 5.7L weighs 450 lbs, but a Cummins diesel weighs 1100 lbs, and lightness is key in offroading. 

On a personal note, diesel clatter is one of the all time great audible crimes of humanity and when I'm out in the bush having a day of offroading, the last thing I want to hear is that gawdawful noise.

[AutobahnSHO]

Ugh. 

Once again, you could not be more wrong if you tried.

Probably one of the 3 best 4x4 vehicles EVER devised;




And, it was the diesel engine which put it in the top portion of the top three. 

What are the other two?  I would totally vote this

[Galaxy]

On a personal note, diesel clatter is one of the all time great audible crimes of humanity and when I'm out in the bush having a day of offroading, the last thing I want to hear is that gawdawful noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mulJqDwNtM&feature=related

clatter? What clatter?

[cawimmer430]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mulJqDwNtM&feature=related

clatter? What clatter?

Man, that 3.0 TDI V6 Touareg is slow! You can't merge unto a freeway with that lame ass acceleration! 

[Mustangfan2003]

I'll show you some clatter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQs5YrkV8U&feature=channel_video_title

[hounddog]

What are the other two?  I would totally vote this

The HMMWV, the M151, the LR I posted and the M561 are the best off-roaders ever made in my opinion.

[hounddog]

On a personal note, diesel clatter is one of the all time great audible crimes of humanity and when I'm out in the bush having a day of offroading, the last thing I want to hear is that gawdawful noise.

You really need to familiarize yourself with modern diesels.

As for your "serious offroaders" baloney, are you saying the Marine Corp is not serious about off-roading?

[Galaxy]

The HMMWV, the M151, the LR I posted and the M561 are the best off-roaders ever made in my opinion.

Ahem.

[hounddog]

That is a good off-roader as well, but not as good as those I mentioned.  Sorry.  

[Galaxy]

That is a good off-roader as well, but not as good as those I mentioned.  Sorry. 

Ok, in what way is it worse then an LR 1, or a Hmmwe then?

[Cookie Monster]

Ahem.

Yeah, but what happened to it after it landed?

[Galaxy]

Yeah, but what happened to it after it landed?

Probably nothing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Pc0tMZZM4

[hounddog]

Ok, in what way is it worse then an LR 1, or a Hmmwe then?

Who said "worse?"  

I said "not as good."

I never said it was a bad vehicle, in fact, I said quite the opposite.  What makes it a lesser vehicle is that is has no real combat experience to speak of, and, all the others I mentioned have seen extensive combat with ridiculous reliability in the field, and legendary toughness and 4x4 capability.

Get involved in a couple of wars and use it extensively, then we can talk about it.  



You know, on second thought, suggesting that Germans get involved in a war is probably about as good of an idea as is giving the keys to a Dunkin Donuts to the local Foodaholic Anonymous chapter.  

[Rupert]

Serious offroaders use gasoline engines because diesels are so goddamn heavy.  A Chevy 5.7L weighs 450 lbs, but a Cummins diesel weighs 1100 lbs, and lightness is key in offroading. 

On a personal note, diesel clatter is one of the all time great audible crimes of humanity and when I'm out in the bush having a day of offroading, the last thing I want to hear is that gawdawful noise.

Maybe if we're talking rock crawlers, but we aren't. In any practical 4x4, a diesel is great.

And, oh, your poor little sensitive ears!

[Cookie Monster]

Who said "worse?" 

I said "not as good."

I never said it was a bad vehicle, in fact, I said quite the opposite.  What makes it a lesser vehicle is that is has no real combat experience to speak of, and, all the others I mentioned have seen extensive combat with ridiculous reliability in the field, and legendary toughness and 4x4 capability.

Get involved in a couple of wars and use it extensively, then we can talk about it. 



You know, on second thought, suggesting that Germans get involved in a war is probably about as good of an idea as is giving the keys to a Dunkin Donuts to the local Foodaholic Anonymous chapter. 

not as good = worse

[Rupert]

As for the "best off-roaders" thing, it really depends on what you want to achieve. I don't think the HMMWV and its iterations is good for what I want a 4x4 for, just because it's so big. Ditto any quad cab full size pick-up. The classic Jeeps (military through regular sized Wranglers) aren't any good, because there's not enough room in them. IMO, off-road vehicles are about compromise: Too much room for stuff and they are too big to perform well, and too much performance, and they are too small to fit anything.

For my particular wants/needs, the best 4x4s are the long wheelbase Land Rovers (Series and Defender), LWB Land Cruisers (FJ 50, 60, 70), older G-wagons, etc. I certainly do not need my 4x4s to be vetted through war.

[hounddog]

not as good = worse

thecarnut = no sense of humor at all.

[Rupert]

hounddong = wasn't joking

[Rupert]

Oh, dear. I was going to fix the "n" in there, but it's pretty funny, so I'm going to leave it.

[BENZ BOY15]

thecarnut = no sense of humor at all.

hounddong = wasn't joking

Where's the joke...

[Galaxy]

Who said "worse?" 

I said "not as good."

I never said it was a bad vehicle, in fact, I said quite the opposite.  What makes it a lesser vehicle is that is has no real combat experience to speak of, and, all the others I mentioned have seen extensive combat with ridiculous reliability in the field, and legendary toughness and 4x4 capability.

Get involved in a couple of wars and use it extensively, then we can talk about it. 



You know, on second thought, suggesting that Germans get involved in a war is probably about as good of an idea as is giving the keys to a Dunkin Donuts to the local Foodaholic Anonymous chapter. 

Ahh, I see.

Your quote...

The HMMWV, the M151, the LR I posted and the M561 are the best off-roaders ever made in my opinion.

...threw me off. I never new that combat capability was needed to be considered a good offroader. 


However in that case I will still argue that Germany makes one of the best off roaders.




To my knowledge no other MBT comes close to the Leopard 2 in terms of water fording capabilites. 

[Rupert]

Actually, the best off-roaders ever made are shoes.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Actually, the best off-roaders ever made are shoes Sonomas

[Galaxy]

Actually, the best off-roaders ever made are shoes.

Shoes are highly overrated. 

[hounddog]

The Leopard 2 is a nice tank, however, the Abrams M1-A2 has the ability to be "operated"* at 10 meters deep.  

It is also completely impervious to biological and chemical attack, and has armour that is widely regarded as the best in the world.

In fact, when the US Army tested both the Leopard 2 and the Abrams M1, the M1 was chosen because of the superior armor protection offered by the Chobham armor, which was later upgraded with the addition of depleted Uranium layers.

In 2014 at the earliest and 2017 at the latest, the Abrams M1-A3 will be thee Big Daddy of all MBTs for decades to come.  With a brand new super-santa-secret main gun and fire control system; smaller, lighter, quieter and roughly 33% more efficient turbine engine; and upgraded and lighter version of Chobham armor there will be no tank which will be its equal.

So, while the Leopard2 is a good tank and slightly more mobile than the tougher M1A2, it will soon be left far behind.

I never new that combat capability was needed to be considered a good offroader.  

Not "needed" to be considered a good offroader.  

However, combat unequivocally outlines the abilities, reliability and overall fortitude of a vehicle.  For instance, combat made absolute believers out of EVERYONE with regards to the M151 and its predicessor the M422.

[hounddog]

hounddong = wasn't joking

Again, I did not say I was joking.  

I said "humor."

As in; intended to be humorous:  a.k.a. tongue in cheek.

[hounddog]

Actually, the best off-roaders ever made are shoes.

If you were any more wrong we would have to call you "wrongpert."  (I know, its late and that is the best I could come up with)

[Rupert]

Again, I did not say I was joking.  

I said "humor."

As in; intended to be humorous:  a.k.a. tongue in cheek.

Your tongue never makes it to your cheek until after everyone has called you on being a dick.

[Rupert]

If you were any more wrong we would have to call you "wrongpert."  (I know, its late and that is the best I could come up with)

I, uh... okaaay.

Anyway, name one place on land (that's not a battle zone ) that anything with four wheels can go that a person-sans-machine cannot. I can name a ton of places where people can go and four wheels can't.

[hounddog]

Your tongue never makes it to your cheek until after everyone has called you on being a dick.

Funny how you always manage to find a way to become an even bigger asshole than previously imaginable when anyone who demonstrates they are right and you are wrong. 

 

I, uh... okaaay.

Anyway, name one place on land (that's not a battle zone ) that anything with four wheels can go that a person-sans-machine cannot. I can name a ton of places where people can go and four wheels can't.

Name one place on land that people can go that those animals cannot go better, faster and easier.