Is chasing volume a winning strategy?

[2o6]

I have a buddy in the US with a 1995 VW Jetta 2.0. He's tuned up his 2.0 engine to produce around 150 or 170-hp which according to him is a clear step up from the normal performance of that engine. And more important the engine is reliable, even with tuning. VW knows that their products are popular amongst the young tuning crowd. This might, MIGHT, be one of the reasons why the 2.0 engine is still offered. It's a lame reason, but it's a reason nonetheless. Besides, I really don't think anyone buying the 2.0 really cares about refinement etc. They want a stylish car to get from A to B.

The 2.slow is an 8-valve unit that dates back to the mid 80's. It's old and slow, and produces TERRIBLE MPG's.


The "Tuning" element is a lame excuse. Tuning that motor is polishing a turd.

[cawimmer430]

The 2.slow is an 8-valve unit that dates back to the mid 80's. It's old and slow, and produces TERRIBLE MPG's.
The "Tuning" element is a lame excuse. Tuning that motor is polishing a turd.

I'm not making excuses. I'm thinking out loud if it was this and that that made VW offer this old engine in the new Jetta.

I bet that VW kept the old 2.0 engine here for price reasons. Old but proven existing engine and tooling equipment means the car can be offered at a cheaper asking price.

[sportyaccordy]

Yeah, but the Jetta now also appeals to a broader mass of people. That's what VW wants.

Yea but so do the Civic, Corolla, Focus, etc

To put it in terms you can understand, it would be like if Mercedes completely cheapened out the E Class to chase the Camry's volume, but in the process stripped away all its high quality materials and feel. There would be no reason to buy one over a Camry, aside from H&H and "German car feel" (that can be, to some level anyway, achieved simply w/stiffer springs/shocks)- neither of which matter to the volume consumer. Just like in absence of all logic you pledge allegiance to MB for "emotional" reasons, so will volume buyers cling to Civics and Camrys instead of better cars (which the Jetta isn't)

[GoCougs]

This is why I posed the thread as a QUESTION, and then explained my thoughts and opened the floor. God forbid someone question the almighty free market! No company has ever made a bad decision!

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I think the Jetta got into its stride in the MK4 & 5... they were downright luxurious, and small enough that the 2.Slow didn't really matter. There was a reason to get one over a Civic that might not have worked for everyone but def worked for some.

Now the Jetta has been downgraded to the point that it is NOT the premium choice. So what does it offer that its competitors don't? W/the grand cheapening VW is like a crackhead, selling off the brand cachet that helped them gain popularity amongst rich college girls and latte swilling liberals. Who defines the Jetta's market now?

Not to mention w/the size boost they have a gap... hopefully the Polo will come to us too.

I just don't know about VW.

You said VW was "an all out mess," which I was implying was a broken premise. The new Jetta is a major sales hit for VW.

The point being Americans don't buy "premium" small cars en masse, and why the Jetta has been a but a sales curiosity, relatively speaking.

[GoCougs]

But there's no two ways about it, the new Jetta's 2.0 is laughably last in class, but then again, the Germans can't build a 4-cyl to challenge the Japanese, so the average for the class is relatively sky high.

[cawimmer430]

Yea but so do the Civic, Corolla, Focus, etc

To put it in terms you can understand, it would be like if Mercedes completely cheapened out the E Class to chase the Camry's volume, but in the process stripped away all its high quality materials and feel. There would be no reason to buy one over a Camry, aside from H&H and "German car feel" (that can be, to some level anyway, achieved simply w/stiffer springs/shocks)- neither of which matter to the volume consumer. Just like in absence of all logic you pledge allegiance to MB for "emotional" reasons, so will volume buyers cling to Civics and Camrys instead of better cars (which the Jetta isn't)

I understand you. But keep in mind that many people also buy cars not based on logic but emotions. And despite many people calling the new Jetta bland, some folks find it good-looking and probably have some sort of emotional connection with it.

[NomisR]

I understand you. But keep in mind that many people also buy cars not based on logic but emotions. And despite many people calling the new Jetta bland, some folks find it good-looking and probably have some sort of emotional connection with it.

Those same people probably find the Camcord attractive and exciting to drive too..

[cawimmer430]

But there's no two ways about it, the new Jetta's 2.0 is laughably last in class, but then again, the Germans can't build a 4-cyl to challenge the Japanese, so the average for the class is relatively sky high.

You need to try the 4-cylinder engines we have over here. Smooth, refined (V6-like feel to it) and powerful as well as economical. The 4-cylinders which the Germans sell in the US are admittedly outdated with the exception of some Audi 4-cylinders.

[Tave]

You said VW was "an all out mess," which I was implying was a broken premise. The new Jetta is a major sales hit for VW.

The point being Americans don't buy "premium" small cars en masse, and why the Jetta has been a but a sales curiosity, relatively speaking.

Some brands thrive as a "curiosity," but VW isn't one of them. Sporty forgets that VW had always been "The People's Car" until VWAG tried to push it upmarket in the 90s, which backfired big time in the US. We don't get Seat or Skoda, so there's nothing for us as far as basic transportation. Not only did VW abandon the volume brand, but also the move put them into a category that doesn't sell well here to begin with: the near lux, Acura Saab Volvo crowd.

[2o6]

Some brands thrive as a "curiosity," but VW isn't one of them. Sporty forgets that VW had always been "The People's Car" until VWAG tried to push it upmarket in the 90s, which backfired big time in the US. We don't get Seat or Skoda, so there's nothing for us as far as basic transportation. Not only did VW abandon the volume brand, but also the move put them into a category that doesn't sell well here: the near lux, Acura Saab Volvo crowd.

It didn't backfire (at least, not at first).


The MK3 Jetta saved VW from pulling out of the US, and the MKIV IIRC sold better than the MK3 Jetta. I think they offered an appreciable substance distance over the cheaper compacts. However, IMO, that gap has closed. Most cars are just as nice for cheaper.



Personally, I think VW should only sell the CC, Euro Jetta/Golf and Passat. (Maybe the beetle) And introduce SEAT to the USA.

[Laconian]

I just think it's ridiculous how much Volkswagen has to forfeit in order to hit that low price point. The car's built in Mexico FFS. It's not built from unobtanium nor is it  built by German artisans.

[hotrodalex]

VW has lost most of its appeal, to me at least. The styling is rather bland, the interior has regressed, the performance is mediocre. The brand seems confused; they were trying to be a bit more upscale before but now they are trying to be Hyundai. Except Hyundai has moved on now.

[AltinD]

No, they might simply not be able to afford more, but they will certainly be able to afford a competitor that offers more power and better mpgs at the same price.

Back in 2002 I bought my previous Passat with the 2sl.0w engine. A I4 Camry or a Accord were cheaper then the base Passat trim, and I had more then 3 grand worth of extra options (total price was 21 grand). Yet I didn't gave a shit. I wanted a European car that drove and felt like one, and despite lacking in power was way more fun and involving to drive.

[AltinD]

The 2.slow is an 8-valve unit that dates back to the mid 80's. It's old and slow, and produces TERRIBLE MPG's.

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

[ifcar]

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

You say that like it's something to be proud of. Both specs are lousy.

[Tave]

Back in 2002 I bought my previous Passat with the 2sl.0w engine. A I4 Camry or a Accord were cheaper then the base Passat trim, and I had more then 3 grand worth of extra options (total price was 21 grand). Yet I didn't gave a shit. I wanted a European car that drove and felt like one, and despite lacking in power was way more fun and involving to drive.

That's great. I was talking about chasing volume.

[AltinD]

You say that like it's something to be proud of. Both specs are lousy.

Did the Camry and Accord in 2002 weighted 3300 pounds? Did their 2.4 had a fuel economy of 25MPG or better?

[ifcar]

Did the Camry and Accord in 2002 weighted 3300 pounds? Did their 2.4 had a fuel economy of 25MPG or better?

They weighed 3,200 pounds and achieved EPA mixed-driving ratings of 24 and 25 mpg, respectively.

[omicron]

Produce something the mainstream will like and you'll appeal to more buyers more often - easier to get more people to pay fewer dollars than it is to get fewer people to pay more dollars.

[Galaxy]

I do not really care what VW does as long as they still do their quirky little projects now and then.

[GoCougs]

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

Yeah, that's really terrible.

[GoCougs]

Also remember VWAG is vying for the title of largest automaker in the world yet its US market share is less than 3%. SOMETHING has to be done to make inroads, and GTIs, diesel Golfs, and CCs ain't going to cut it.

[MX793]

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

Sorry, that's pretty poor.  Most V6 midsize family sedans weigh that much or more and get better than 20 mpg while being capable of 0-60 in 7 seconds or less.  I average about 24 mpg in mixed driving in my 305 hp, 3400 lb Mustang.

[sportyaccordy]

Some brands thrive as a "curiosity," but VW isn't one of them. Sporty forgets that VW had always been "The People's Car" until VWAG tried to push it upmarket in the 90s, which backfired big time in the US. We don't get Seat or Skoda, so there's nothing for us as far as basic transportation. Not only did VW abandon the volume brand, but also the move put them into a category that doesn't sell well here to begin with: the near lux, Acura Saab Volvo crowd.

Like 2o6 said, VW's sales took off when it stopped chasing volume and went upmarket. They filled a previously unfilled niche and put a nice distance between them and the likes of Toyota, Nissan, etc w/o competing directly w/BMW, MB etc and not quirking themselves out of relevance like Volvo and Saab. The strategy made sense and paid off then. Even up till recently I would say their brand was in a comfy space... well below actual premium brands but not in the dead zone of Saab + Volvo. What was wrong w/that?

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

You got ripped off hardcore

Also remember VWAG is vying for the title of largest automaker in the world yet its US market share is less than 3%. SOMETHING has to be done to make inroads, and GTIs, diesel Golfs, and CCs ain't going to cut it.

I mean, if they went from making 5k on every CC sold to 1K on every Passat Kamry and even manage to quadruple their market share, would it be worth it? Like I said in the first post, these companies are businesses first, so I'm hoping their not going Napoleon and sacrificing overall profit for volume. I'd rather be Porsche or Ferrari than GM... market share means shit w/o a focus on profitability + peace of mind. Liability alone makes me weary of chasing volume in today's litigious times

[CALL_911]

That engine in my 3300 pound car it turned more then 20 MPG and was able to move the car from 0 - 60 in 10 - 10.5 seconds, with a top speed of 122 MPH.

LOL

[93JC]

I mean, if they went from making 5k on every CC sold to 1K on every Passat Kamry and even manage to quadruple their market share, would it be worth it?

This is the answer to the question posed in the thread title. Earning profits is a winning strategy. Chasing volume is but a way of going about that.

If they make $5k on every CC and only $1k on every new Passat it is worth it if they sell six times as many Passats as CCs. Same with the Mk V Jetta vs. the Mk VI: sure, they might earn less on each sale, but if they sell several times more of them they'll make more money in the end.

The only thing that might get them in trouble is if they cheapen out on the product to the point it's so bad people won't want to buy one regardless of price (what happened to GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.). I don't think that will happen because quite frankly their old products don't have a good reputation for reliability in North America anyway.

[cawimmer430]

Personally, I think VW should only sell the CC, Euro Jetta/Golf and Passat. (Maybe the beetle) And introduce SEAT to the USA.

Skoda would be a far better choice. Seats are "quirky" and you know how Americans feel about quirky cars (French cars failed in the US apparently also because of quirky design and interior design). Boring stuff from Toyota, Hyundai etc. will sell over exciting cars from Seat, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault etc.

Then again Skoda might fail in the US since nobody there wants a car built by "Communists". 

[2o6]

Skoda would be a far better choice. Seats are "quirky" and you know how Americans feel about quirky cars (French cars failed in the US apparently also because of quirky design and interior design). Boring stuff from Toyota, Hyundai etc. will sell over exciting cars from Seat, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault etc.

Then again Skoda might fail in the US since nobody there wants a car built by "Communists". 

Skoda isn't as cheap, and Seat isn't quirky; it's sporty.

[cawimmer430]

Skoda isn't as cheap, and Seat isn't quirky; it's sporty.

Skoda in Europe is known for excellent value-for-money, quality and even better reliability than VWs.

Seats are sporty but their designs will definitely not appeal to the average American.


This....



Will always be preferred to this.  

[MX793]

Hate to break it to you, Wims, but the Yaris isn't all that popular.