Report: Austin police looking to stockpile Crown Vics ahead of model's phase-out

[hounddog]

I see that now.

This is probably the one place I would agree that vehicles like the Volt, only bigger and better, and TDIs would be very appropriate as a mandate.

There is no real reason for them not to be.

[thewizard16]

Not to mention that the performance of some of the current offerings makes specialty cars an expense that is not justifiable. 

Charger 5.7l and the Caprice will do everything police always wished they could do with a four door performance-wise, but could only get out of a two door. 

The state police here used to have quite a handful of Camaros (and some local municipalities still do) that were supposedly their pursuit vehicles, but last I'd read they had decided to quit buying coupes for pursuit vehicles due to space/practicality issues when the new Chargers came out. Now they have the Hemi Chargers mixed in throughout their fleet with regular Chargers, so you never know which one is sitting out there by the side of the road waiting for you . I know they bought their first batch of Chargers back in 06 (20 of the first orders were the hemi V8 models) with plans to evaluate and, if appropriate, replace the entire fleet of 400 Crown Vics and Impalas (which they're not a fan of, but there are still a few newer unmarked "stealth" SP Impalas out there due to the cost of the stealth cars supposedly) with the Chargers. I don't know what ratio they kept going forward with of Hemis, but I assume they've replaced or nearly replaced the fleet by now because I haven't seen a state trooper Crown Vic in at least a couple years.

[hounddog]

Some departments in Michigan had Mustangs, MSP even had a couple Camaros they hardly ever drove.

In the end, they were not useful since policies often required transport of prisoners in rear seats with cages, so another car was required to transport.  You ended up with two cars being tied up for one arrest.

[rohan]

We just had Chevy bring us two Caprices last week and we had a mule from Dodge at the same time.  I don't have a clue why they'ld even consider buying up a stockpile of them unless it's just so they don't have to buy different equip like cages and consoles.  They're such piles of crap next to the other two.

[Catman]

We just had Chevy bring us two Caprices last week and we had a mule from Dodge at the same time.  I don't have a clue why they'ld even consider buying up a stockpile of them unless it's just so they don't have to buy different equip like cages and consoles.  They're such piles of crap next to the other two.

New Caprice is the way to go.  Tons of interior space.  Taurus is a disappointment.

[rohan]

It's about 50-50 in our department on Charger vs Caprice and the word coming down from his exalted highness is the guys will get to choose what they drive of the 2.  the guys under 35 seem to like the charger and the older guys like the caprice.  

[rohan]

And we can't even consider a taurus until they get evaluated by the MSP by our contract - plus no purchase bid price on them either.

[Galaxy]

We just had Chevy bring us two Caprices last week and we had a mule from Dodge at the same time.  I don't have a clue why they'ld even consider buying up a stockpile of them unless it's just so they don't have to buy different equip like cages and consoles.  They're such piles of crap next to the other two.

Carbon Motors is not even being considered? Does the company even have working prototypes?

[hounddog]

Carbon Motors is not even being considered? Does the company even have working prototypes?

And we can't even consider a taurus until they get evaluated by the MSP by our contract - plus no purchase bid price on them either.

No, they have some kind of prototype, but Carbon Motors will never get to production.  The cost to produce a one-off specialty vehicle by a company, without even any manufacturing facilities at this point, will make it unfeasible to departments on tight purchasing budgets.  

Then there is the issue of service and warranty and corporate liability, which honestly, is huge in the police vehicle market.

I cannot imagine how they will ever get the cash to create a manufacturing plant, unless they can pursuade an existing manufacturer to build one.  Then, there is the difficult task in getting fleet managers to go away from what they know to what is completely new.  AND, it would just stand out in the crowd so much it would mean that crinimals could see it from great distances in many cases.

Lastly, it would have to pass the federal and IIHS crash tests at least at the same level as existing production LE models.

It just seems about as likely as me winning the lotto at this point.

[S204STi]

The argument that they would have to buy all new gear to mount on a different type of interceptor is pretty specious. I mean, seriously.  It cannot cost anywhere near as much to buy new light bars and stuff as it would to buy cars to match the gear.  Stupid, stupid logic.

[S204STi]

Some departments in Michigan had Mustangs, MSP even had a couple Camaros they hardly ever drove.

In the end, they were not useful since policies often required transport of prisoners in rear seats with cages, so another car was required to transport.  You ended up with two cars being tied up for one arrest.

Well, and since the mere V-6 versions of the Charger and Caprice (not to mention the potent V-8 versions) will be plenty fast enough to run down all but the most exotic iron on the road it makes even less sense to have specialized pursuit cars, doesn't it?

[hounddog]

The argument that they would have to buy all new gear to mount on a different type of interceptor is pretty specious. I mean, seriously.  It cannot cost anywhere near as much to buy new light bars and stuff as it would to buy cars to match the gear.  Stupid, stupid logic.

Not really when you look at the cost of things.

New consoles for mounting radios and switch controls can be as much as $300-500 bucks. (made to fit exactly between seats, and height of seats, of specific cars)
New cages are about $500. (made to fit the space exactly between the floor and roof, and door to door)
New computer stands to fit your car if needed $150.
New push bumpers $250-500. (made to fit the exact subframe of each vehicle)
New hard shell transport seats $350-500. (should be obvious why new would be needed between models)

It adds up pretty quickly, and over a fleet of 30 or more cars it could get really expensive.

Well, and since the mere V-6 versions of the Charger and Caprice (not to mention the potent V-8 versions) will be plenty fast enough to run down all but the most exotic iron on the road it makes even less sense to have specialized pursuit cars, doesn't it?

There is no V6 Caprice, so I assume you mean Impala, otherwise; exactly.

[S204STi]

Not really when you look at the cost of things.

New consoles for mounting radios and switch controls can be as much as $300-500 bucks. (made to fit exactly between seats, and height of seats, of specific cars)
New cages are about $500. (made to fit the space exactly between the floor and roof, and door to door)
New computer stands to fit your car if needed $150.
New push bumpers $250-500. (made to fit the exact subframe of each vehicle)
New hard shell transport seats $350-500. (should be obvious why new would be needed between models)

It adds up pretty quickly, and over a fleet of 30 or more cars it could get really expensive.
There is no V6 Caprice, so I assume you mean Impala, otherwise; exactly.

So we're looking at approx $2500 per car, so it makes sense then to buy a $25k car that's obsolete in order to avoid losing that?  I don't think it's worth the up-front cost to be stuck in Crown Vics for the next half a decade.  Just MO.

I thought the new Caprice had a V6 and V8 option.

[bing_oh]

I thought the new Caprice had a V6 and V8 option.

Not until the 2nd model year. The new Carpice is only available in the V8 for the first year.

[S204STi]

Ah, I see.  Shows what I know.

[hounddog]

So we're looking at approx $2500 per car, so it makes sense then to buy a $25k car that's obsolete in order to avoid losing that?  I don't think it's worth the up-front cost to be stuck in Crown Vics for the next half a decade.  Just MO.

I thought the new Caprice had a V6 and V8 option.

I was not defending it, just helping you to see there is more to it than lightbars to consider.

I have long stated the CVPI was out of date and in need of retirement or overhaul.

I also do not support their decision to stockpile cars, and their fleet manager should be thrashed.

[S204STi]

Yeah, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure out the logic.  I mean, I guess what you said makes sense now that I think about it.  I just don't think it's a valid reason not to update your fleet, not necessarily arguing with you about that I guess.

[hounddog]

It is when budgets are tight, however, if their budget is the talking point then how will it be a positive for their budget to buy cars and to simply let them sit for an in determinant amount of time?

Honestly, it makes very little sense.

[S204STi]

Yeah, they're talking about a huge outlay of money on a depreciating asset.  Maybe depreciation doesn't factor in the same way in this decision, but one has to think it would in some way.

[hounddog]

Probably not regarding depreciation, since they are not worth much after service regardless.

[bing_oh]

Probably not regarding depreciation, since they are not worth much after service regardless.

That's true but it can vary greatly from one department to another. For example, I have a friends whose departments have automatic retirement/replacement policies for cruisers at anywhere from 65000 to 80000 miles. My department, on the other hand, has cruisers with 140000+ miles. Obviously, any of these miles are going to be hard ones...that's just a fact of police usage. But, a cruiser with 65000 miles still retains some value, while my 142000 mile 2003 Crown Vic is nothing but scrap value once it's retired.

[Madman]

If police departments really wanted to save money, they could start by refurbishing some of these.......

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=299414445&dealer_id=63804941&car_year=2002&doors=&systime=&position=top&search_lang=en&start_year=1998&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=used&distance=50&min_price=1&drive=&rdm=1305903750361&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=64253063&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=y&certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&address=37221&color=&sort_type=priceASC&max_price=4000&awsp=false&make=&num_records=100&seller_type=b&cardist=38&standard=false

[hounddog]

If police departments really wanted to save money, they could start by refurbishing some of these.......

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=299414445&dealer_id=63804941&car_year=2002&doors=&systime=&position=top&search_lang=en&start_year=1998&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=used&distance=50&min_price=1&drive=&rdm=1305903750361&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=64253063&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=y&certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&address=37221&color=&sort_type=priceASC&max_price=4000&awsp=false&make=&num_records=100&seller_type=b&cardist=38&standard=false

Refurbishing GOOD cars ran about $11,000 in 1996.   I can only imagine how much it would cost now for a full refurbish today.

In the end you get an old car with a new engine and suspensions, seats and steering wheel, that still has old everything else.  In the end, the constant repair bills made it a running joke.

Refurbishing was a dismal failure with Carpices, so I can only imagine how bad it would be with Crap Victorias.

[bing_oh]

In the end you get an old car with a new engine and suspensions, seats and steering wheel, that still has old everything else.  In the end, the constant repair bills made it a running joke.

Refurbishing was a dismal failure with Carpices, so I can only imagine how bad it would be with Crap Victorias.

Yes it was. I drove a "refurbished" Caprice at one point...what a total POS and a waste of money.

[The Pirate]

That's true but it can vary greatly from one department to another. For example, I have a friends whose departments have automatic retirement/replacement policies for cruisers at anywhere from 65000 to 80000 miles. My department, on the other hand, has cruisers with 140000+ miles. Obviously, any of these miles are going to be hard ones...that's just a fact of police usage. But, a cruiser with 65000 miles still retains some value, while my 142000 mile 2003 Crown Vic is nothing but scrap value once it's retired.

I was out in park downtown today test riding a bike.  LEO drives by in a Crown Vic, and it was making some absolutely horrible suspension clanks over bumps.  Don't know if it was something simple like sway bar links or something bigger, but that's not good.

[MaxPower]

I was talking to a trooper the other day...looks like the current plan here is to place one final order of about a hundred Crown Vics and then replace them with the Ford Interceptor offerings.  Its rumored the troopers will get their choice of SUV or car.

[bing_oh]

I was out in park downtown today test riding a bike.  LEO drives by in a Crown Vic, and it was making some absolutely horrible suspension clanks over bumps.  Don't know if it was something simple like sway bar links or something bigger, but that's not good.

Huh. I didn't see you.

[The Pirate]

Huh. I didn't see you.

I'm that fast.  On that note, Albany has a unit of bicycle cops, I so want to be attempted to pulled over by one of those guys.  The guys I've interacted with (bike shop I work at services their fleet) are in pretty good shape, but I'm a much better rider, I know I could destroy them.  I'd be strongly tempted to make a run for it.  'Course, you guys have radios, guns and back up, so I'd ultimately fail.  It'd still be fun though.  

[hounddog]

Our sheriff department just ordered 12 Impalas and intend on shedding them until the current ones get replaced.  

They only want front wheel drive or 4x4 from now on.      

I understand the need for them, but, really?

[68_427]

Our sheriff department just ordered 12 Impalas and intend on shedding them until the current ones get replaced. 

They only want front wheel drive or 4x4 from now on.     

I understand the need for them, but, really?

The 300hp and 6spd model?