The Neon Light Goes Out This Week

[ifcar]

I can't find a Spectra for under $3000 Used here.

I'm talking used....I'd never buy a car new. First gens is what I'm talking about.
Hell, even the 2nd gen C&D tested they placed 5th out of 13.

Behind the Protege, Focus, Sentra and Civic.

It sounded as though you were comparing it new to other new cars.

As to the $3k Spectra, AutoTrader produced 16 results. And the oldest would be several years newer than the oldest Neon. (But those Spectras were dreadful).

BTW, for $3K, I'd buy a Protege, Escort, Esteem, or Mirage over a Neon. I'd probably even buy a Cav/Sunf first.

$3,000 Canadian, and that's a quite high estimate. There's plenty in the $1500 range.

Again, the Neon had a three-year head start. A 1995 car is generally less expensive than a 1998.  

[Run Away]

We're talking about two different comparos then. You must be talking about the 2000 one, I'm talking about the 02.

Yup, I'm talking about the 2000 one. It had the EK bodystyle Civic.

[93JC]

Actually, Car and Driver put the Neon is a tie for 6th of 10 with the Mitsu Lancer, and the Sentra in eighth.

This was in 2002, BTW.

I poked around and found it on the C&D website.


Some questionable stuff in their review though:

"If you're a stickler for driving finesse, the Neon has a troubling remoteness about it, as if you were piloting a simulator." --> Outright lie. Very direct feel.
"The shifter feels like an assemblage of loose-fitting parts," --> Must have confused it with another car. Not the case whatsoever.
"the throttle is stiff," -->  :blink:
"the steering is inclined to abrupt transitions when that's not at all what you intended." --> I would tend to agree.
"The engine is mild enough in its audio output, but why does it have to sound like a leaf blower instead of a cammer four?" --> Don't know what they're talking about. Sounds just fine.
"The interior feels crowded with curvaceous plastic gestures and plump seats, and the wheel pushes close to your chest." --> The bit about the plastic is spot-on, but the seats are in no way 'plump', and the wheel doesn't 'push on your chest'. You'd have to be a midget to need to have to move the seat that far forward.
"Everywhere, you see blatantly man-made materials with a relentless and unnatural shininess about them." --> 'Man-made materials'? As opposed to what, materials made by our giant monster overlords? The bit about the 'shininess' is flat out silly: the Neon has very dull plastic (which is what I had assumed most people gripe about besides the general texture of the stuff).
"For this kind of money, do you really mind that the seats appear to be covered in the same material in which bicyclists shrink-wrap their posteriors?"---> Feels like the stuff in a Toyota Celica, actually. Thin, rough material.
"Can you live with a plastic wheel that feels like sandpaper? For sure, it's not slippery." ---> Must have been trippin' when they wrote this nonsense.
"The back seat is remarkably low and close to the floor, and there's zero toe space under the front seats. It has to be low to make head clearance; the rear glass is directly above. It's hard. For shade, a few low-tech black strips across the window top block the sun. At least the cushion is deftly shaped so you get thigh support despite its lowness." --> double-you tee eff. I had no problem in the back of the Neon. Plenty of room for my legs and feet. No headroom though, to that I can attest.

Their Corolla review is mildly amusing. I especially like the bits about the "haul-ass motor" and "superb interior gloss". The Corolla's engine is a lazy lump meant for a grandpamobile, and somehow glossy plastics make the Corolla superb but make the Neon shite...  <_<

[ifcar]

The Corolla managed a 0-60 of close to 8 seconds in that test, definitely praiseworthy.  

[Run Away]

I can't find a Spectra for under $3000 Used here.

I'm talking used....I'd never buy a car new. First gens is what I'm talking about.
Hell, even the 2nd gen C&D tested they placed 5th out of 13.

Behind the Protege, Focus, Sentra and Civic.

It sounded as though you were comparing it new to other new cars.

As to the $3k Spectra, AutoTrader produced 16 results. And the oldest would be several years newer than the oldest Neon. (But those Spectras were dreadful).

BTW, for $3K, I'd buy a Protege, Escort, Esteem, or Mirage over a Neon. I'd probably even buy a Cav/Sunf first.

$3,000 Canadian, and that's a quite high estimate. There's plenty in the $1500 range.

Again, the Neon had a three-year head start. A 1995 car is generally less expensive than a 1998.

What is the cheapest '98 Spectra?
The cheapest '98 Neon is $1,200 Candian.

http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.asp...70&adid=4429830

Year   1998
Make   DODGE
Model   NEON
Exterior Colour   red
Interior Colour   grey
Transmission   Automatic
Engine Size   2.0, 4 cyl.
Fuel Type   Gas
# Doors   4
   
Price   $1,200.00
Mileage   140,000 km
Warranty   Available
Stock #   711950B
Date   9/21/2005
Ad Code   CPYLLX
Web Ad ID   4429830



$1,028.81 USD for a 1998 Vehicle with 87,000 miles.

[giant_mtb]

I like driving Corolla's... :ph34r:  

[Run Away]

In the '00 Comparo, they called the Neon 5 speed "slick".

[mazda6er]

The Corolla managed a 0-60 of close to 8 seconds in that test, definitely praiseworthy.

I've got to admit, for a compact, that's damn good.

[93JC]

The Corolla managed a 0-60 of close to 8 seconds in that test, definitely praiseworthy.

I didn't see any figures, and the Neon is quite easily capable of handing the Corolla its ass on a dull black-grey plastic platter.

[Run Away]

In the June 2000 issue, the cars finnished like this:

13: Kia Sephia LS
12: Daewoo Nubria CDX
10 (tie): Toyota Echo
10 (tie): Suzuki Esteem 1.8GLX Sport
9: Saturn SL2
8: Mitsubishi Mirage DE
7: Chevrolet Prism (Toyota Corolla, really)
6: Hundai Elantra GLS
5: Dodge Neon ES
4: Honda Civic LX
3: Ford Focus ZTS
2: Nissan Sentra GXE
1: Mazda Protege ES

Neon-
Highs: Drives bigger than it is, high style interior, trusty brake feel
Lows: Outrageous wind noise, too much engine vibration, and you must press a scratchy-clunky button to release the ignition key
The Verdict: Big car feel comes to the low price class

"In go power, the Neon falls a bit behind the lead pack - a half second slower to 60, for example - but it feels peppy once you get used to the stiff throttle spring. THe clutch strokes easily, the shifter is slick, and the brakes are firm, all qualities that ear high marks with us. We rated teh Neon an eight for fun to drive, just one point behind our overall favourite"

[Run Away]

Damn it, after typing all that out I finally find the article online.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=3899

[ifcar]

I can't find a Spectra for under $3000 Used here.

I'm talking used....I'd never buy a car new. First gens is what I'm talking about.
Hell, even the 2nd gen C&D tested they placed 5th out of 13.

Behind the Protege, Focus, Sentra and Civic.

It sounded as though you were comparing it new to other new cars.

As to the $3k Spectra, AutoTrader produced 16 results. And the oldest would be several years newer than the oldest Neon. (But those Spectras were dreadful).

BTW, for $3K, I'd buy a Protege, Escort, Esteem, or Mirage over a Neon. I'd probably even buy a Cav/Sunf first.

$3,000 Canadian, and that's a quite high estimate. There's plenty in the $1500 range.

Again, the Neon had a three-year head start. A 1995 car is generally less expensive than a 1998.

What is the cheapest '98 Spectra?
The cheapest '98 Neon is $1,200 Candian.

http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.asp...70&adid=4429830

Year   1998
Make   DODGE
Model   NEON
Exterior Colour   red
Interior Colour   grey
Transmission   Automatic
Engine Size   2.0, 4 cyl.
Fuel Type   Gas
# Doors   4
   
Price   $1,200.00
Mileage   140,000 km
Warranty   Available
Stock #   711950B
Date   9/21/2005
Ad Code   CPYLLX
Web Ad ID   4429830



$1,028.81 USD for a 1998 Vehicle with 87,000 miles.

The Spectra was still called the Sephia in 1998 (the car was redesigned for 98, but the name didn't change until 02). I had thought they'd changed the name with the redesign, I didn't remember the Spectra name being that new.

That said, there were five 98 or newer Sephias on AutoTrader (US version) priced below $1,028.81 USD, and the only two with listed mileage were below 87K.  

[ifcar]

Neon-
Highs: Drives bigger than it is, high style interior, trusty brake feel
Lows: Outrageous wind noise, too much engine vibration, and you must press a scratchy-clunky button to release the ignition key
The Verdict: Big car feel comes to the low price class

"In go power, the Neon falls a bit behind the lead pack - a half second slower to 60, for example - but it feels peppy once you get used to the stiff throttle spring. THe clutch strokes easily, the shifter is slick, and the brakes are firm, all qualities that ear high marks with us. We rated teh Neon an eight for fun to drive, just one point behind our overall favourite"

Of course, those are the standards of five years ago, and the Neon has barely changed since then.    

[Run Away]

So because the car is older, it's a crap box?

Yes there are better cars new vs new, I'm not arguing that.
But in the used car market, they're a pretty good deal for the money, not many can compete. And they're certainly not "crap boxes".

[mazda6er]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

[Run Away]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

Ignorance.


   

[ifcar]

So because the car is older, it's a crap box?

Yes there are better cars new vs new, I'm not arguing that.
But in the used car market, they're a pretty good deal for the money, not many can compete. And they're certainly not "crap boxes".

For about $5,000 used, they're half decent. Any more, and they're crap boxes.

And I was only explaining why they were more favorable towards the car in 2000 than they were in 2002 and are now: standards change.  

[ifcar]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

In 2000, interior styling was still something of an unknown in economy cars. Compared to blandies like the Corolla, Civic, Protege, or Sentra, or uglies like the Echo or (debatably) the Focus of that era, it was high-style.  

[Run Away]

So because the car is older, it's a crap box?

Yes there are better cars new vs new, I'm not arguing that.
But in the used car market, they're a pretty good deal for the money, not many can compete. And they're certainly not "crap boxes".

For about $5,000 used, they're half decent. Any more, and they're crap boxes.

And I was only explaining why they were more favorable towards the car in 2000 than they were in 2002 and are now: standards change.

What makes them crap boxes?

Lower grade plastic used in the dash?
Wind noise?

[mazda6er]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

In 2000, interior styling was still something of an unknown in economy cars. Compared to blandies like the Corolla, Civic, Protege, or Sentra, or uglies like the Echo or (debatably) the Focus of that era, it was high-style.

hmm...blandies and uglies, eh? Sounds more like a description of your ex-girlfriends than econcar interiors if, but I'll take your word for it. :P

Totally joking, but I just had to use that.    

[93JC]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

In 2000, interior styling was still something of an unknown in economy cars. Compared to blandies like the Corolla, Civic, Protege, or Sentra, or uglies like the Echo or (debatably) the Focus of that era, it was high-style.

hmm...blandies and uglies, eh? Sounds more like a description of your ex-girlfriends than econcar interiors if, but I'll take your word for it. :P

Totally joking, but I just had to use that.  

   

[ifcar]

So because the car is older, it's a crap box?

Yes there are better cars new vs new, I'm not arguing that.
But in the used car market, they're a pretty good deal for the money, not many can compete. And they're certainly not "crap boxes".

For about $5,000 used, they're half decent. Any more, and they're crap boxes.

And I was only explaining why they were more favorable towards the car in 2000 than they were in 2002 and are now: standards change.

What makes them crap boxes?

Lower grade plastic used in the dash?
Wind noise?

No refinement, no ride comfort, little seat comfort, no interior quality. When you get into the $5K+ range, you find cars that exceed the Neon's abilities without those flaws. The Focus and Protege come immidiately to mind.  

[ifcar]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

In 2000, interior styling was still something of an unknown in economy cars. Compared to blandies like the Corolla, Civic, Protege, or Sentra, or uglies like the Echo or (debatably) the Focus of that era, it was high-style.

hmm...blandies and uglies, eh? Sounds more like a description of your ex-girlfriends than econcar interiors if, but I'll take your word for it. :P

Totally joking, but I just had to use that.  

You call me picky and then come out with that.  <_<  :P  

[93JC]

No refinement,

Can anyone define "refinement" for me? The most descriptive definition I've been told is "precision". Precision of what I do not know, which is why I hate the word "refinement" with a passion.

[mazda6er]

I wasn't aware the Neon ever had a "high-style" interior, 5 years ago or otherwise.

In 2000, interior styling was still something of an unknown in economy cars. Compared to blandies like the Corolla, Civic, Protege, or Sentra, or uglies like the Echo or (debatably) the Focus of that era, it was high-style.

hmm...blandies and uglies, eh? Sounds more like a description of your ex-girlfriends than econcar interiors if, but I'll take your word for it. :P

Totally joking, but I just had to use that.  

You call me picky and then come out with that.  <_<  :P

:D  

[Run Away]

And have you personally been in/driven a Neon in comparison with the others?

I've been in both first and second generation Neons, and while the second gen trip was long ago and short, I didn't find it bad at all. Nothing noticably different from the Foci I've been in, or my co-workers Protege.
If they changed the seats from first to second gen, it must have been for the worst because I've had no problems with Neon seats on longer trips (went on a camping trip in that 1st gen I've driven).

Maybe because I just don't care about those things (besides seat confort, which I dont agree with) is why I don't share your point of view.

[ifcar]

No refinement,

Can anyone define "refinement" for me? The most descriptive definition I've been told is "precision". Precision of what I do not know, which is why I hate the word "refinement" with a passion.

Precision? I'm talking NVH.  

[93JC]

No refinement,

Can anyone define "refinement" for me? The most descriptive definition I've been told is "precision". Precision of what I do not know, which is why I hate the word "refinement" with a passion.

Precision? I'm talking NVH.

So "unrefined" means "noisy" in your lexicon?

What about "uninspired"?

[ifcar]

And have you personally been in/driven a Neon in comparison with the others?

I've been in both first and second generation Neons, and while the second gen trip was long ago and short, I didn't find it bad at all. Nothing noticably different from the Foci I've been in, or my co-workers Protege.
If they changed the seats from first to second gen, it must have been for the worst because I've had no problems with Neon seats on longer trips (went on a camping trip in that 1st gen I've driven).

Maybe because I just don't care about those things (besides seat confort, which I dont agree with) is why I don't share your point of view.

Even if you don't care about those things, you sacrifice absolutely nothing by buying a Focus or Protege. Both have comparable power (though not with the basest base engines) and even better handling, and once you get over $5K, you can easily pick up either of them.  

[ifcar]

No refinement,

Can anyone define "refinement" for me? The most descriptive definition I've been told is "precision". Precision of what I do not know, which is why I hate the word "refinement" with a passion.

Precision? I'm talking NVH.

So "unrefined" means "noisy" in your lexicon?

What about "uninspired"?

Uninspired? Bland.