Alfa's 11, I mean 12, and now 13 years (and counting) of broken promises

[ifcar]

The MINI doesn't sell on the merits of the car itself - given it pretty much has some of the worst reliability of any car available

Inaccurate.

[Madman]

Alfa Romeo's North American launch date has been pushed back yet again.  Alfas were due to arrive in 2013 but now it looks like we won't see any until 2014 (marketed as 2015 model year cars).  Meanwhile, US Fiat dealers (with only one car to sell) are growing impatient with Alfa's repeated launch delays.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/20/fiat-dealers-irked-by-alfa-romeos-delayed-return-to-u-s/

[2o6]

They'll get here.

[cawimmer430]

Ah, the joys of living in Europe and seeing various Alfas, old and new (Suck it, Consumer Reports!), everyday. 

My buddies Alfa Romeo 156 GTA is still for sale. Who wants to buy it and have it shipped over to America? 

[sportyaccordy]

I have a EVO magazine buyer's guide... if I remember when I get home I will post some of the little problems they noted with the 156/147 GTA. Little things like electric harnesses frying, head gaskets going, timing equipment breaking etc, you know, minor stuff.

[Raza]

I have a EVO magazine buyer's guide... if I remember when I get home I will post some of the little problems they noted with the 156/147 GTA. Little things like electric harnesses frying, head gaskets going, timing equipment breaking etc, you know, minor stuff.

My friend had far more problems with his Honda Civic than I did with my Volkswagens. 

[68_427]

Honestly, that Alfa would be so worth it.

[2o6]

My friend had far more problems with his Honda Civic than I did with my Volkswagens. 

Exceptions to the rule.

[Raza]

Exceptions to the rule.

True.  But I'm on like 7 years of relatively problem free Volkswagen ownership, and he got rid of the Honda because it was problematic. 

[cawimmer430]

I have a EVO magazine buyer's guide... if I remember when I get home I will post some of the little problems they noted with the 156/147 GTA. Little things like electric harnesses frying, head gaskets going, timing equipment breaking etc, you know, minor stuff.

And I have the "owners guide". The car has about 170,000 km and he's never had a problem with it. The only thing that needed fixing is some cloth lining falling off the sunvisors. Wow, such an unreliable car!

[2o6]

And I have the "owners guide". The car has about 170,000 km and he's never had a problem with it. The only thing that needed fixing is some cloth lining falling off the sunvisors. Wow, such an unreliable car!

When converted to miles, that is not impressive.

[Vinsanity]

Alfa Romeo is a luxury make, that competes with Volvo, Saab and in some respects BMW and MB.


It's not like we'd be getting Dacias badged as Alfa's; we'd be getting essentially an Italian version of BMW.

Um, no. I hate to be "that guy", but as long as they're FWD, Alfas won't be on the same level as BMW in performance, ride, and handling.

Even if I could overlook the potential reliability issues, I'm still not sure I understand the point of a premium sporty FWD car.

[ifcar]

Um, no. I hate to be "that guy", but as long as they're FWD, Alfas won't be on the same level as BMW in performance, ride, and handling.

Then just replace "BMW" with "Audi" in that statement -- problem solved.

[68_427]

Purdy

[sportyaccordy]

My friend had far more problems with his Honda Civic than I did with my Volkswagens. 

Statistically, EVO's buyer's guide, w/info compiled from Alfisti + their rich mechanics >>>>>>>>>>>>> your one buddy.

I blew up 2 Honda Accord motors, but I'm an anomaly (I ran the cars ragged + modified them).

[cawimmer430]

When converted to miles, that is not impressive.

170,000 km isn't "impressive"? That's quite a mileage.

[MX793]

170,000 km isn't "impressive"? That's quite a mileage.

105K miles isn't that much, really.  Maybe by European standards, but in the US it's not uncommon to see cars with over 150K miles on them.  My Mazda has close to 90,000 on it.  My 240SX had 120K on it when I sold it.  I was just talking to a co-worker who mentioned he was looking to pick up a car as a winter-rat for his son that had about 200,000 miles on it.

[MX793]

True.  But I'm on like 7 years of relatively problem free Volkswagen ownership, and he got rid of the Honda because it was problematic. 

You never had either of them for more than 4 years and have any of them cleared 50K miles?  You have to have a real lemon of a car to have a lot of major issues in less than 4 years/50K miles.

[ifcar]

105K miles isn't that much, really.  Maybe by European standards, but in the US it's not uncommon to see cars with over 150K miles on them.  My Mazda has close to 90,000 on it.  My 240SX had 120K on it when I sold it.  I was just talking to a co-worker who mentioned he was looking to pick up a car as a winter-rat for his son that had about 200,000 miles on it.

I thought the Mazda recently blew up, though?

While I agree with the your general point, it's also important to avoid the Wimmer standard of "existence = reliability." A 200,000-mile car has probably needed work.

[Rupert]

I'm not impressed until a car has seen 250 kmiles on the original engine and transmission. I fully expect my cars to go 200 kmiles without major work engine/transmission work.

[sportyaccordy]

I'm not impressed until a car has seen 250 kmiles on the original engine and transmission. I fully expect my cars to go 200 kmiles without major work engine/transmission work.

Agreed.

I found the EVO buyer's guide. Here are some of the problems one should look out for when buying a 147/156 GTA:

- Factory timing belt recommendation is at 72K, but EVO recommends 45K as they've been known to fail as early as 49K
- Oil filter is in bad spot, which keeps people from changing... which results in main bearing failures
- Gearbox differentials overheat + explode
- Front suspension AND subframe have to be removed for clutch job
- Hood had a recall for opening at speed

By comparison, the E39 M5 and DC2 ITR basically had NO problems. "Find one in good shape and you will be fine"

There's DEFINITELY a difference in reliability. Alfa STILL doesn't seem to have got it together. This is all from a European magazine too, for enthusiasts. So please spare us the CR crap Wim. Alfas are economy cars that are more temperamental than Ferraris

[2o6]

170,000 km isn't "impressive"? That's quite a mileage.

My focus has 147k. My old neon had 105k when I sold it.

[sportyaccordy]

Accords routinely do 200K+ miles here. More cracks show in the German auto market psychology.

[Rupert]

Agreed.

I found the EVO buyer's guide. Here are some of the problems one should look out for when buying a 147/156 GTA:

- Factory timing belt recommendation is at 72K, but EVO recommends 45K as they've been known to fail as early as 49K
- Oil filter is in bad spot, which keeps people from changing... which results in main bearing failures
- Gearbox differentials overheat + explode
- Front suspension AND subframe have to be removed for clutch job
- Hood had a recall for opening at speed

By comparison, the E39 M5 and DC2 ITR basically had NO problems. "Find one in good shape and you will be fine"

There's DEFINITELY a difference in reliability. Alfa STILL doesn't seem to have got it together. This is all from a European magazine too, for enthusiasts. So please spare us the CR crap Wim. Alfas are economy cars that are more temperamental than Ferraris

To be fair, difficult maintenance and tough access are hardly reliability problems.

[Raza]

You never had either of them for more than 4 years and have any of them cleared 50K miles?  You have to have a real lemon of a car to have a lot of major issues in less than 4 years/50K miles.

50K on the Passat and I'm at 66K on the Jetta.  I forget the mileage on his car, but I admit, I remember it being more than that.  90,000-105,000, something like that. 

[MX793]

I thought the Mazda recently blew up, though?

While I agree with the your general point, it's also important to avoid the Wimmer standard of "existence = reliability." A 200,000-mile car has probably needed work.

Didn't say the car has been spotless, just that 105K miles isn't some impressive number of miles. 

And as it turned out, what I thought was a "blow up" was refrigerant venting out of a pressure relief valve due to the compressor being stuck on.  No parts needed to actually fix it, just had to free up the clutch on the compressor.

[cawimmer430]

105K miles isn't that much, really.  Maybe by European standards, but in the US it's not uncommon to see cars with over 150K miles on them.  My Mazda has close to 90,000 on it.  My 240SX had 120K on it when I sold it.  I was just talking to a co-worker who mentioned he was looking to pick up a car as a winter-rat for his son that had about 200,000 miles on it.

170,000 km is a lot for our standards. If a car holds up well to that mileage it's definitely also an indication of how it'll hold up in the future.

[cawimmer430]

Agreed.

I found the EVO buyer's guide. Here are some of the problems one should look out for when buying a 147/156 GTA:

- Factory timing belt recommendation is at 72K, but EVO recommends 45K as they've been known to fail as early as 49K
- Oil filter is in bad spot, which keeps people from changing... which results in main bearing failures
- Gearbox differentials overheat + explode
- Front suspension AND subframe have to be removed for clutch job
- Hood had a recall for opening at speed

By comparison, the E39 M5 and DC2 ITR basically had NO problems. "Find one in good shape and you will be fine"

There's DEFINITELY a difference in reliability. Alfa STILL doesn't seem to have got it together. This is all from a European magazine too, for enthusiasts. So please spare us the CR crap Wim. Alfas are economy cars that are more temperamental than Ferraris

The Alfa 156 wasn't perfect. It has weak spots like every other car. The 156 GTA of this guy has held up well. I've ridden in the car when we had lunch in the city and the car felt more solid than the new Mito I drove recently. There were no squeaks or rattles, no damage to the interior, no cracks etc. The car was in perfect shape. Only on the passenger side sun visor was some cloth coming off. Big deal. The owner has a garage for his car and he does regular maintenance. He used this car as his daily driver in a CITY ENVIRONMENT and for touring across Europe on vacations (including shitty quality Eastern European roads).

All to often people ignore regular maintenance and then blame problems on the car. Some cars need more precise maintenance than others. And anyone who ignores regular maintenance and then blames the car/brand should be bitch slapped until they need to take off their shirt to shit.

I'm surprised the transmission in your Honda didn't blow up and maim you or your house burned down because of...oh, Honda engine fires.... 

[ifcar]

170,000 km is a lot for our standards.

If true, that speaks volumes to why you can't understand American concerns about German cars' reliability.

[cawimmer430]

If true, that speaks volumes to why you can't understand American concerns about German cars' reliability.

We have tons of high-mileage German and European cars in Europe. So what's the problem? 

If our cars are so shitty at high mileage, then why would some people here still drive them? Why not buy a used Japanese car that are sooooooooooooo reliable and hold up so well that they're quite popular at classic car shows....oh wait.