Alfa's 11, I mean 12, and now 13 years (and counting) of broken promises

[Rupert]

I don't know, I'd never put up with a car that wasn't reliable. Perhaps a "toy" car that I only took out once or twice a month. But not a car I used every day.
That's why I used a Miata for so long. It worked every time and was fun too.


As for Alfa, just like the Fiat 500 I don't get the love for them. Perhaps they are all that but I can't see it. And I don't think most of them look good either. I'd never take a chance on one to find out.

I think almost any new car is going to be plenty reliable. I don't think anyone sells a horrendously unreliable car anymore.

[Onslaught]

I think almost any new car is going to be plenty reliable. I don't think anyone sells a horrendously unreliable car anymore.

I'm not sure. Perhaps it's more reliable then cars from 10-20 years ago. But it could be far less reliable then other modern day cars. And that makes it unreliable in the modern world.
Most cars won't spill oil all over the place and not run when you need it. But they can have those little things that drive you nuts happen.

I don't know if Alfa's are that way or not. And I won't go by what a tv show says. But I'd have to see how they do over say 10 years before I'd give them my money.


Hey, I drive a car that's a big POS that won't start or last 100K if you take everything on the internet as the truth. So who am I to say?

[sportyaccordy]

Wrong.

I am pointing out that Civic is a car like any other. It's not perfect, it has problems.

There are people who have problem-free Japanese, Korean, German, French, Italian, RUSSIAN etc. cars and there are people who have problematic cars from those same countries. What simply annoys me is this bullshit about how a car from Europe is automatically considered "unreliable" compared to "anything" out of Japan.

Again, some makes and models consistently have more problems than others. If you have 100 Honda owners and 100 Alfa owners, more Alfa owners would have problems. Some might have none, but more Honda owners would have none. It's a very, very, very simple concept. Nobody said ALL European cars will have problems. But a higher percentage of them do than the likes of Honda/Toyota. There are tons of stats to back this up. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[Rupert]

I'm not sure. Perhaps it's more reliable then cars from 10-20 years ago. But it could be far less reliable then other modern day cars. And that makes it unreliable in the modern world.
Most cars won't spill oil all over the place and not run when you need it. But they can have those little things that drive you nuts happen.

I don't know if Alfa's are that way or not. And I won't go by what a tv show says. But I'd have to see how they do over say 10 years before I'd give them my money.


Hey, I drive a car that's a big POS that won't start or last 100K if you take everything on the internet as the truth. So who am I to say?

According to The Intenets, my car is either supposed to be totally bombproof through 200 kmiles, or super unreliable and a huge money pit no matter the mileage.

[Madman]

Thread revival time.

Alfa's now dozen-year-old quest to once again cross the Atlantic is in a state of shambles.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/09/alfa-romeo-u-s-launch-in-shambles/#more-458886


No Alfa MiTo for North America.  Oh, and forget the Giulietta, too, because it's US launch has been cancelled.  Looks like the only Alfa confirmed for America is the 4C.

Yeah, that will pack them into the showrooms! 

[TurboDan]

Thread revival time.

Alfa's now dozen-year-old quest to once again cross the Atlantic is in a state of shambles.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/09/alfa-romeo-u-s-launch-in-shambles/#more-458886

This entire thing is so silly. I can see why there were delays 12 years ago, but the U.S. market in 2012 is eating Alfa type cars up like Cheerios. Despite the economy, if ANY of these brands want to return to the US market, this is pretty much the time to do it.

[cawimmer430]

Why would Alfa want to bring over the stylish Giulietta when there's the bland Dart? Same car, just much, much, much duller-looking.

[CJ]

The Dart looks great.

[cawimmer430]

The Dart looks great.

I think it looks dull.

But still, if the Dart exists in the US then there is no need for the Alfa Romeo version to be brought over. The Giulietta will probably sell in extremely small numbers anyway just like the Fiat 500 or MINI Cooper. Stylish lifestyle cars aren't popular yet in America AFAIK. Economy cars need to look boring and dull, then they'll sell tot he un-enthusiasts masses. <--- My impression.   

[2o6]

I think it looks dull.

But still, if the Dart exists in the US then there is no need for the Alfa Romeo version to be brought over. The Giulietta will probably sell in extremely small numbers anyway just like the Fiat 500 or MINI Cooper. Stylish lifestyle cars aren't popular yet in America AFAIK. Economy cars need to look boring and dull, then they'll sell tot he un-enthusiasts masses. <--- My impression.   

500 and mini sells in similar proportion here as it does elsewhere. 500 and Mini are niche products, as well as to a lesser extent Guiletta.

[sportyaccordy]

I think it looks dull.

But still, if the Dart exists in the US then there is no need for the Alfa Romeo version to be brought over. The Giulietta will probably sell in extremely small numbers anyway just like the Fiat 500 or MINI Cooper. Stylish lifestyle cars aren't popular yet in America AFAIK. Economy cars need to look boring and dull, then they'll sell tot he un-enthusiasts masses. <--- My impression.   

Small cars need style. Americans are all about image. Manufacturers keep failing with small cars because they make them miserable penalty boxes. Its only recently with cars like the Honda Fit + Ford Fiesta that feel premium (as well as sky high gas prices) that they've begun to catch on.

[2o6]

Small cars need style. Americans are all about image. Manufacturers keep failing with small cars because they make them miserable penalty boxes. Its only recently with cars like the Honda Fit + Ford Fiesta that feel premium (as well as sky high gas prices) that they've begun to catch on.

Europe is far more image conscious; our models are usually dumbed down compared to other markets.

[TurboDan]

Europe is far more image conscious; our models are usually dumbed down compared to other markets.

Wrong. We're far, far more image-conscious. BMW and MB, for example, are scared to death to even bring their lower end trims here because they think it will make the image of the brand cheaper and more accessible.

Our models are dumbed down because vehicles that are considered "entry level" cars for young people here are considered a mid-level vehicle elsewhere. See: Jetta. Hisorically, people have been unwilling to pay for loaded and/or pricier mainstream small vehicles here so they were dumbed down in order to make them cheaper. The fact that this is changing and Americans are buying more higher-end small vehicles in both the mainstream and luxury segments is sort of the entire crux of this argument.

[2o6]

Wrong. We're far, far more image-conscious. BMW and MB, for example, are scared to death to even bring their lower end trims here because they think it will make the image of the brand cheaper and more accessible.

I don't think so; the fact that BMW and MB's 3-series and C-classes are considered legitimate competitors to Mondeo, Avensis, Insignia and friends despite being worse for that specific purpose in almost every way speaks volumes. The fact that people will pay price premiums for the cheapest Benz or BMW versus a typical midsizer says that they value the badge more than anything.

[SVT666]

I think it looks dull.

Dull?  I know you Euros like ugly cars, but good looking /= dull.

[cawimmer430]

500 and mini sells in similar proportion here as it does elsewhere. 500 and Mini are niche products, as well as to a lesser extent Guiletta.

Exactly. Niche product.

Niche product = low sales.

[cawimmer430]

Dull?  I know you Euros like ugly cars, but good looking /= dull.

No offense, but the new Dodge Dart doesn't look good in my eyes compared to the Alfa it is based on. 

[2o6]

Dull?  I know you Euros like ugly cars, but good looking /= dull.

I have to agree with Wimmer, I think the design looks five years old in person.

[Madman]

I have to agree with Wimmer, I think the design looks five years old in person.

Agreed.  The Dart looks dated.  Had this car been introduced back in 2006 or so as a real Neon replacement, it would have been the best car in it's class.  But today, the Dart just looks stale.  Hard to believe it's based on the gorgeous Alfa Giulietta.  They took a silk purse and turned it into a sow's ear!

[SVT666]

No offense, but the new Dodge Dart doesn't look good in my eyes compared to the Alfa it is based on. 

Compared to what it's based on it's hideous.  The Alfa is hot.  But the Dart is still a good looking car and pictures really do not do it justice.

[cawimmer430]

Compared to what it's based on it's hideous.  The Alfa is hot.  But the Dart is still a good looking car and pictures really do not do it justice.

I'm not saying the Dart is ugly. It looks pretty "unique" for a compact car sold in the US (not like a "penalty box") but I still don't find it that interesting in terms of design compared to the Alfa it's based on.

[2o6]

Compared to what it's based on it's hideous.  The Alfa is hot.  But the Dart is still a good looking car and pictures really do not do it justice.

The proportions suck and the interior is ugly.

[SVT666]

The proportions suck and the interior is ugly.

That's rich coming from you.

[2o6]

That's rich coming from you.

Cop out.

[SVT666]

Cop out.

No it's not.  How can you possibly criticize something for poor proportions and an ugly interior when all you ever design is exactly that?  Not to mention the multitude of oddly proportioned ugly ass Chinese shit that you post on here and call "cute".  The Dart's proportions are fine.  The interior is fine.

[2o6]

No it's not.  How can you possibly criticize something for poor proportions and an ugly interior when all you ever design is exactly that?  Not to mention the multitude of oddly proportioned ugly ass Chinese shit that you post on here and call "cute".  The Dart's proportions are fine.  The interior is fine.

Why do you get so personally offended when someone doesn't agree with you?



It shares the Crap proportions that all Fiat c segments have; super log front overhang too high rear end. It looks old, and the interior looks bad.

[Vinsanity]

They both have excessively long front overhangs

[2o6]

Its worse on the Delta and Bravo.


I think the Delta and Bravo are styled better, though. Especially Bravo; from some angles the proportions actually work.

[CJ]

I like the Dart a lot. I've driven two now, an they're really quite good. Engine is a little pokey, but once the turbo spools up, it's got great power.

[sportyaccordy]

Alfas do have really bad overhang, so do Peugeots and big Renaults...

And Americans are way more image conscious, I don't think any American would be caught dead in a Twingo... we buy the most of cars that make no sense (big sedans, small SUVs and pickup trucks) and run from cars that make sense (wagons, hatchbacks, MPVs). Americans are image conscious to a fault.