<$50k, what do you get?

[MX793]

Contact patch of factory size tires is generally about the size of a sheet of paper folded in half, or, about 3 inches wide.  Smaller on smaller tires, I believe.

And, yes, thinner tires do better in deep snow.  My understanding of tire physics is that wider tires do better on ice, but, I admit I could be wrong on how I remember that.

Contact patch size is purely a function of how much the car weighs and what the tire pressure is (plus the stiffness of the tire itself).  Basically, regardless of what tires you put on a car, if the pressure is the same then the contact patch area will be the same whether you're running 215 wide tires or 255 wide tires.  The difference will be in the shape of the contact patch (long and narrow for a skinny tire vs short and wide for a wider tire).

As far as snow driving goes, as you drive through the snow it has to go somewhere.  Either your tire rolls over it (meaning it compacts under the tire, often become ice as it compresses), or it pushes to the sides (and your tire rides on the pavement beneath).  Snow will resist being pushed sideways, so the less you have to push it, the better.  The wider the tire, the more the snow has to shift sideways to move around the tire and the more likely the tire is to ride up on top of the snow instead of cutting through it.

[Raza]

Used RX-8 and used Z4 3.0i.

[sportyaccordy]

Used RX-8 and used Z4 3.0i.

Why would you get these two cars when the S2000 is better than both

Then get like a CR-V or something to haul shit. Or since gas mileage is not a concern

Get an old WRX or S4 V8 wagon

[SJ_GTI]

...used Z4 3.0i.

You know the thought of buying one of these (as a second car) has been rolling around in my head for a few weeks now. I haven't had a convertible since my Z3, but I still miss it on days like today!

[sportyaccordy]

You know the thought of buying one of these (as a second car) has been rolling around in my head for a few weeks now. I haven't had a convertible since my Z3, but I still miss it on days like today!

They are about 1.5x too expensive for what you get. The hardtops are even more expensive.

[hounddog]

Contact patch size is purely a function of how much the car weighs and what the tire pressure is (plus the stiffness of the tire itself).  Basically, regardless of what tires you put on a car, if the pressure is the same then the contact patch area will be the same whether you're running 215 wide tires or 255 wide tires.  The difference will be in the shape of the contact patch (long and narrow for a skinny tire vs short and wide for a wider tire).

As far as snow driving goes, as you drive through the snow it has to go somewhere.  Either your tire rolls over it (meaning it compacts under the tire, often become ice as it compresses), or it pushes to the sides (and your tire rides on the pavement beneath).  Snow will resist being pushed sideways, so the less you have to push it, the better.  The wider the tire, the more the snow has to shift sideways to move around the tire and the more likely the tire is to ride up on top of the snow instead of cutting through it.

Thanks for reposting what I said and then adding this very long, but very dry, explenation of the same thing.

 

[68_427]

They are about 1.5x too expensive for what you get. The hardtops are even more expensive.

They aged sooooo well though.

[sportyaccordy]

They aged sooooo well though.

I look at them every now and then. But the price makes me wretch

[Raza]

You know the thought of buying one of these (as a second car) has been rolling around in my head for a few weeks now. I haven't had a convertible since my Z3, but I still miss it on days like today!

I know what you mean.

[Raza]

Why would you get these two cars when the S2000 is better than both

Then get like a CR-V or something to haul shit. Or since gas mileage is not a concern

Get an old WRX or S4 V8 wagon

Your face, that's why.  I see a lot of RX-8s, and I think one of those as a family car is a very interesting proposition.  The Z4 3.0i because I would want something German and you all expect the Boxster coming from me.

[sportyaccordy]

Your face, that's why.  I see a lot of RX-8s, and I think one of those as a family car is a very interesting proposition.  The Z4 3.0i because I would want something German and you all expect the Boxster coming from me.

Have you driven S2000

I think it's pretty much perfect for you. Definitely a pure (and endearingly flawed to some degree) driving experience.

RX-8 makes no sense.

[MX793]

Have you driven S2000

I think it's pretty much perfect for you. Definitely a pure (and endearingly flawed to some degree) driving experience.

RX-8 makes no sense.

Have you ever driven an RX-8?

[sportyaccordy]

Have you ever driven an RX-8?

No but I have driven an S2000. RX-8 from what friends who have driven them have told me are like S2000s with less power, less torque, and half the gas mileage. I know it's a CS favorite, and it does combine a lot of good things, but I don't see the point of one if you can have more than one car.

[MrH]

Probably the best driving 4 seater under $40,000.  That's why.

[MX793]

No but I have driven an S2000. RX-8 from what friends who have driven them have told me are like S2000s with less power, less torque, and half the gas mileage. I know it's a CS favorite, and it does combine a lot of good things, but I don't see the point of one if you can have more than one car.

The difference in power and torque is 5 hp and 3 lb-ft (assuming we're talking about later, 2.2L S2Ks).  If your friends can tell that difference through the seats of their pants, they should sell themselves out as portable dynamometers.

[BimmerM3]

No but I have driven an S2000. RX-8 from what friends who have driven them have told me are like S2000s with less power, less torque, and half the gas mileage. I know it's a CS favorite, and it does combine a lot of good things, but I don't see the point of one if you can have more than one car.

It drives great, has a fixed roof, and has four seats. I actually think that an RX-8 and an S2000 would be a damn near perfect garage for a single guy.

[sportyaccordy]

The difference in power and torque is 5 hp and 3 lb-ft (assuming we're talking about later, 2.2L S2Ks).  If your friends can tell that difference through the seats of their pants, they should sell themselves out as portable dynamometers.

The differences on chassis dynos are greater... especially for AP2s

Performance differences are bigger than the numbers suggest too.

Its not a bad car but IMO it has some deep flaws

[Raza]

The differences on chassis dynos are greater... especially for AP2s

Performance differences are bigger than the numbers suggest too.

Its not a bad car but IMO it has some deep flaws

I agree the RX-8 is deeply flawed, which is why I drive a turbo Volkswagen that's just as quick and gets much better gas mileage and is more practical.  But that's because I have to pay for everything in the real world.  This is fantasyland. 

[the Teuton]

PS BMW did one hell of a price raise on the 135i to the point where I don't see why the discerning shopper shouldn't just splurge for the 1M. Retarded...

[sportyaccordy]

I agree the RX-8 is deeply flawed, which is why I drive a turbo Volkswagen that's just as quick and gets much better gas mileage and is more practical.  But that's because I have to pay for everything in the real world.  This is fantasyland. 

I am gonna pull a sporty and say that w/the right mods, your Jetta could also prob have 90% of the RX-8's sublime handling too

But there's no fix for the RX-8's gas mileage/performance problem.

I like to think about car purchases somewhat in reality as the time is approaching for me to get back into the ownership game. If all the parameters are right... I'm seriously considering a 964 C2. It's now or never

[MrH]

I am gonna pull a sporty and say that w/the right mods, your Jetta could also prob have 90% of the RX-8's sublime handling too

But there's no fix for the RX-8's gas mileage/performance problem.

I like to think about car purchases somewhat in reality as the time is approaching for me to get back into the ownership game. If all the parameters are right... I'm seriously considering a 964 C2. It's now or never

[GoCougs]

So what exactly is wrong with the RX-8's performance?

0-60 in the 6 sec range, 1/4-mile times in the upper 14 sec range, RWD, and by all accounts is a good handler and refined. All that for under $30k? What's wrong with that?

[Cookie Monster]

I am gonna pull a sporty and say that w/the right mods, your Jetta could also prob have 90% of the RX-8's sublime handling too

But there's no fix for the RX-8's gas mileage/performance problem.

I like to think about car purchases somewhat in reality as the time is approaching for me to get back into the ownership game. If all the parameters are right... I'm seriously considering a 964 C2. It's now or never

So you jizz over Accords yet you can appreciate the RX-8's handling and practicality? WTF is wrong with you?

[sportyaccordy]

So what exactly is wrong with the RX-8's performance?

0-60 in the 6 sec range, 1/4-mile times in the upper 14 sec range, RWD, and by all accounts is a good handler and refined. All that for under $30k? What's wrong with that?

Nothing, besides the fact that a Mustang GT gets better gas mileage

[r0tor]

Typical honduh fanboi speech    

[Laconian]

Nothing, besides the fact that a Mustang GT gets better gas mileage

There's no fix for the 964 C2's gas mileage problem.

[MrH]

Typical honduh fanboi speech    

The "I can get 90% of the performance by moddin a Jetta" mentality just tells me you don't get it, sporty.  Drive an RX-8.  It's not about pure skidpad or slalom numbers.  The rx-8 is unbelievably well balanced.  A very comfortable ride for how well it handles too. 

You make it seem like a dog compared to an S2000 too.  They're plenty quick, and almost makes identical numbers in terms of power and torque.

[GoCougs]

Nothing, besides the fact that a Mustang GT gets better gas mileage

Nobody cares about gas mileage, and there's no way a Mustang GT will get better overall MPG.

[Onslaught]

Gas millage? We talk'n about gas millage? Gas Millage man
Yes, it's not that great. But most cars in that class don't have great gas millage. Perhaps they have more power but then many of them don't do some of the things as well as the RX-8. So it's a trade.
And if you can't buy gas then you shouldn't buy sports cars. The tires cost over $1000.00 and last for less then 2 years. Everything cost more for sports cars including gas, so if you can't pay then don't play.


"I am gonna pull a sporty and say that w/the right mods, your Jetta could also prob have 90% of the RX-8's sublime handling too"

I'm going to pull a Onslaught and say that it won't. Now I'm not in anyway bashing the Jetta here. It's a fine car and a VW I don't hate.
That's saying something.

But there's a reason that every car magazine has jacked their dicks to the RX-8's handling for 8 years now. Because it really is that good.
It's one of the best handling cars you can buy for less then $50,000.00 after all these years. This isn't some kind of bull shit. It's the truth.

And if I had a friend with a Jetta who mod his car to be at my level then all I'd have to do is mod my RX-8 and then he'd be fucked. So I throw the whole "mod" thing out the window.

[MX793]

Nobody cares about gas mileage, and there's no way a Mustang GT will get better overall MPG.

Actually, it does.  EPA ratings are higher.  C&D's observed fuel economy for the two cars was exactly the same (15 mpg).