Honda and Toyota shut out of May 2011 top-10 best-seller list

[Tave]

They could've saved money by ditching Lincoln.  

They didn't need to save money. They needed instant cash or they were going to go bankrupt.

[MX793]

The current Corolla is MY2009 that went on sale in 2008, so nearing the end of its current generation but not outdated; newer than the Civic for example.

The things that count in the class; comfort, fuel economy, space utilization, price; the Corolla is at or near the top (especially comfort). It also has the best reliability track record, which pretty much seals the deal. This class couldn't care less about 5sp AT vs. 6sp AT or available navigation.

The powertrain has been essentially untouched since 1997.  The only significant change to the 1ZZ-FE engine since it's debut has been the addition of variable valve timing, which happened over 10 years ago.  It's the only car in class still using a 4AT, and it's fuel economy is mid pack.

[ifcar]

The powertrain has been essentially untouched since 1997.  The only significant change to the 1ZZ-FE engine since it's debut has been the addition of variable valve timing, which happened over 10 years ago.  It's the only car in class still using a 4AT, and it's fuel economy is mid pack.

People keep claiming that about Corolla fuel economy, and it's just not true. It's nearly best-in-class with the manual and certainly competitive with the automatic, and without EPA-cheating gearing tricks.


Manuals:
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/36, 31
Corolla: 28/35, 31
Cruze: 26/36, 30
2012 Focus: 26/36, 30
2011 Focus: 25/35, 29
2011 Civic: 26/34, 29
Forte: 25/34, 29
Mazda3: 25/33, 28
Lancer: 24/33, 28
Sentra: 24/31, 27
SX4: 23/33, 26
Jetta: 23/33, 26
Impreza: 20/27, 22


Automatics (city/highway, overall -- EPA):
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/39, 32
2012 Focus: 28/38, 31
Sentra: 27/34, 30
Forte: 26/36, 29
2011 Civic: 25/36, 29
Corolla: 26/34, 29
Cruze 1.4: 24/36, 28
2011 Focus: 25/34, 28
Lancer: 25/33, 28
SX4: 25/32, 28
Mazda3: 24/33, 27
Cruze 1.8: 22/35, 27
Jetta: 24/31, 27
Impreza: 20/26, 22

[Atomic]

What the hell is going on here

this, from automotive news should help...  

MAY U.S. AUTO SALES: May sales slide 4% on rising fuel prices, tight vehicle supplies

- Toyota, Honda suffer as SAAR falls to 11.78M

-Deliveries of the Chevrolet Silverado pickup dropped 8.6 percent last month, contributing to a 1 percent decline in GM's overall U.S. sales in May, the automaker said today.

By: David Phillips

For: Automotive News -- June 1, 2011 - 11:00 am ET (UPDATED: 6/1/11 4:14 p.m. ET)

U.S. light vehicle sales dropped 4 percent in May -- the first decline since August -- as rising gas prices, inventory shortages, higher stickers and economic jitters curbed demand.

The pace of sales last month ? 11.78 million units on an annualized basis ? was the year's lowest and marked the first seasonally adjusted total below 12 million units in seven months. Industry sales are now up 14 percent year for the year after being up 20 percent through April.

Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., hobbled by tight supplies stemming from the March earthquake in Japan, posted sharp declines, while South Korean rivals Hyundai and Kia advanced.

General Motors and Ford Motor Co. also fell as rising gasoline prices put a damper on demand for light trucks. Chrysler Group advanced.

Ford CEO Alan Mulally cited the slowing U.S. economy for putting a dent in the automaker's May sales.

"It's a little less than what we hoped for at the beginning of the year," Mulally told reporters in Washington on Monday.

Sales slid 1 percent at GM and 3 percent at Ford as a rise in car deliveries failed to overcome a sharp decline in light truck volume.

Pickups, SUVs weak

At GM, sales of large pickup trucks dropped 14 percent and crossover demand slipped 1 percent. Ford said car sales rose 4 percent last month, but truck deliveries slid 7 percent, with F-Series pickup volume off 15 percent.

At Toyota, sales fell 33 percent, while Honda deliveries slid 23 percent.

A drop in pickup and SUV sales also resulted in a 9 percent decline in Nissan Motor Co.'s U.S. sales last month.

Chrysler, helped by new models and a 55 percent jump in Jeep deliveries, said sales rose 10 percent last month to 115,363 units ? enough to outsell Toyota and Honda.

Hyundai and Kia also benefited from new, more fuel-efficient models, healthy inventory levels and the woes at Japanese rivals to post sharply higher sales. Deliveries last month jumped 53 percent at Kia and 21 percent at Hyundai.

Average U.S. gasoline prices peaked at $3.97 a gallon in May before falling, but the quick run-up in pump prices was enough to scare some new shoppers.

"A number of consumers continue to wait to see where fuel prices are going to net out and stabilize over the long term before they make a purchase decision," said Don Johnson, GM's head of U.S. sales operations. "We expect that fuel prices will continue to be volatile."

GM said car sales climbed 13 percent on a 32 percent increase in retail deliveries as consumers shifted to smaller, more fuel-efficient models. Sales of the compact Chevrolet Cruze hit 22,711 last month, including 18,996 retail units. Ford said deliveries of the Focus compact ? aided by the redesigned 2012 model ? surged 32 percent to 22,303 units.

GM's fleet volume fell 16 percent, reflecting a 21 percent drop in deliveries to rental car operators.

U.S. light vehicle sales were up 20 percent through April but demand cooled considerably in May because of tight inventories, fewer deals, and mixed economic signals. In addition to lower discounts, GM, Ford and Toyota have raised new car and light truck prices in recent months to counter rising costs for raw materials.

As a result, the average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the United States rose 2.1 percent to a record $29,817 last month, online shopping guide TrueCar.com said today.

Discounts drop

Across the industry, sales slumped in early May as automakers and dealers dialed back on incentives because of dwindling stockpiles resulting from the earthquake in Japan.

GM said its average May discount dropped 10 percent from April. TrueCar.com estimates May discounts averaged $2,107 per model ? down 13 percent from April and a drop of 29 percent from May 2010.

Several automakers responded to the drop-off in showroom traffic by enhancing incentives in mid-May, a move that drew more customers.

"May was a challenge," said Patrick Browne, chief operating officer of the Colonial Automotive Group in Acton, Mass.

Browne said sales remained sluggish until the last 10 days of the month, when enhanced discounts and Memorial Day promotions drew buyers and helped push overall May sales up 5 percent over a year ago.

When Boston-area gas prices dropped back from nearly $4 a gallon last month, showroom traffic also ticked up, Browne said.

Tracking stockpiles

U.S. car and light truck inventories stood at 2.3 million units on May 1, down from 2.5 million on April 1 but up from 2.11 million units in May 2010.

Paul Taylor, chief economist for the National Automobile Dealers Association, said inventory shortages will plague some Japanese automakers through June and early July.

Toyota said this week it expects to increase output to 90 percent of planned levels during June, up from a target of 70 percent as recently as May 12, and well above the 50 percent level it projected for May production.

"Japanese automakers will be back on line sooner than we realize," said Taylor.

"And the fierce industry-wide battle for sales and share will resume just as soon."

Taylor said the recent dip in gasoline prices should also bring some stability to the market.

While consumers are responding to the rise in fuel prices by conserving fuel and choosing new models with smaller engines, Taylor said prices are nowhere near a level that would frighten consumers.

Ford said 80 percent of the Ford Fusion models it sold in May were equipped with a 4-cylinder engine, up from 50 percent when the mid-size sedan went on sale five years ago.

Gas prices are still short of their 2008 peak of $4.11 a gallon, and would need to climb to $4.50 a gallon to create "a disaster" for the auto industry, Taylor said.

Automakers expect the industry's sales rebound to build as the year unfolds. Ford announced plans today to produce 630,000 vehicles in North America during the third quarter, up 44,000 -- or 8 percent -- from the third quarter of 2010.

Setback for some Japanese

Combined with price increases, analysts say the decision to lower incentives in early May hurt some Japanese automakers.

"Most of the falloff is likely from the Japanese, who lost significant market share in May after raising prices and cutting their incentives drastically to preserve inventories," Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson said in a report.

At Nissan's Infiniti division, May sales dropped 21 percent, partly as a result of lower shipments from Japan where nearly all of the luxury brand's models are assembled.

The Craig Zinn Automotive Group in southern Florida sold 400 Japanese-brand cars and light trucks -- including Lexus, Toyota, Acura, and Subaru models -- over the holiday weekend.

In December and January 2011, the group purchased 1,000 additional cars and light trucks in anticipation of price increases.

"We planned for the short term by purchasing a lot of Japanese-brand inventory above and beyond the dealership purchasing requirements," CEO Craig Zinn said.

Bob Reichert, head of Kenwood Dealer Group in Cincinnati, said the company posted May sales that were 3.1 percent below May 2010.

His stores have benefited from a consolidation of Cincinnati-area dealers and healthy new vehicle stockpiles.

His Toyota store moved 50 new cars and light trucks over the weekend.

Sales at the group are now up 4.1 percent for the year.

"There seems to be pent-up demand and a desire to buy," said Reichert. "May was a setback, but transaction prices are up, so I have no complaints."

Mike Colias contributed to this report

[MX793]

People keep claiming that about Corolla fuel economy, and it's just not true. It's nearly best-in-class with the manual and certainly competitive with the automatic, and without EPA-cheating gearing tricks.


Manuals:
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/36, 31
Corolla: 28/35, 31
Cruze: 26/36, 30
2012 Focus: 26/36, 30
2011 Focus: 25/35, 29
2011 Civic: 26/34, 29
Forte: 25/34, 29
Mazda3: 25/33, 28
Lancer: 24/33, 28
Sentra: 24/31, 27
SX4: 23/33, 26
Jetta: 23/33, 26
Impreza: 20/27, 22


Automatics (city/highway, overall -- EPA):
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/39, 32
2012 Focus: 28/38, 31
Sentra: 27/34, 30
Forte: 26/36, 29
2011 Civic: 25/36, 29
Corolla: 26/34, 29
Cruze 1.4: 24/36, 28
2011 Focus: 25/34, 28
Lancer: 25/33, 28
SX4: 25/32, 28
Mazda3: 24/33, 27
Cruze 1.8: 22/35, 27
Jetta: 24/31, 27
Impreza: 20/26, 22

I was referring specifically to the automatic version since a significant majority of American consumers purchase their vehicles so equipped.  Excluding the Impreza (which is saddled with AWD), the median overall fuel economy rating for the class is 28.5 and the mean is 29.  Hence, the Corolla is mid-pack.

[Atomic]

here is a really cool table. again, i apologize for my pc (or my very own) trouble lining up figures allowing an easier to read format...


Automotive News: MAY SALES SLIDE 4% (All manufacturers have reported)

Posted: June 1, 2011

Automaker   May 2011   May 2010   Pct. chng.   5 month 2011   5 month/2010   Pct. chng.
   
BMW division   20,651   17,859   16%   92,068   81,450   13%
   Mini   5,801   4,233   37%   24,588   16,804   46%
   Rolls-Royce   44   43   2%   220   211   4%
BMW Group*   26,496   22,135   20%   116,876   98,465   19%
   
Chrysler Division   16,364   20,699   ?21%   79,539   90,233   ?12%
   Dodge   40,200   42,242   ?5%   186,497   163,471   14%
   Dodge/Ram   61,667   61,172   1%   284,048   238,464   19%
   Fiat   1,759   ?   ?%   3,141   ?   ?%
   Jeep   35,573   22,948   55%   152,810   106,040   44%
   Ram   21,467   18,960   13%   97,551   74,993   30%
Chrysler Group LLC   115,363   104,819   10%   519,538   434,737   20%
   
Maybach   4   5   ?20%   24   28   ?14%
   Mercedes-Benz   20,306   19,177   6%   95,458   87,975   9%
   Smart USA   492   695   ?29%   2,226   2,772   ?20%
Daimler AG**   20,802   19,877   5%   97,708   90,775   8%
   
Ford division   184,130   175,129   5%   841,431   703,327   20%
   Ford/Lincoln/Mercury   191,529   192,012   0%   876,321   782,451   12%
   Lincoln   7,399   7,755   ?5%   34,642   37,444   ?8%
   Mercury   ?   9,128   ?100%   248   41,680   ?99%
   Volvo   ?   4,659   ?100%   ?   23,211   ?100%
Ford Motor Co.***   191,529   196,671   ?3%   876,321   805,662   9%
   
Buick   15,579   12,582   24%   78,731   56,899   38%
   Cadillac   11,623   12,328   ?6%   65,262   52,997   23%
   Chevrolet   161,401   167,023   ?3%   747,700   639,981   17%
   GMC   32,589   29,960   9%   154,582   122,616   26%
   Hummer   ?   1,290   ?100%   ?   2,626   ?100%
   Pontiac   ?   181   ?100%   ?   815   ?100%
   Saab   ?   ?   ?%   ?   608   ?100%
   Saturn   ?   46   ?100%   ?   6,343   ?100%
General Motors****   221,192   223,410   ?1%   1,046,275   882,885   19%
   
Acura   9,000   11,766   ?24%   51,972   50,278   3%
   Honda Division   81,773   105,407   ?22%   471,578   437,004   8%
Honda (American)?   90,773   117,173   ?23%   523,550   487,282   7%
   
Hyundai division   59,214   49,045   21%   263,588   204,577   29%
   Kia   48,212   31,431   53%   200,060   138,163   45%
Hyundai Group??   107,426   80,476   34%   463,648   342,740   35%
   
Jaguar   1,271   962   32%   5,021   4,233   19%
   Land Rover   2,891   2,709   7%   14,140   12,174   16%
Jaguar Land Rover   4,162   3,671   13%   19,161   16,407   17%

Maserati   206   152   36%   908   732   24%

Mazda   17,875   22,605   ?21%   103,072   97,481   6%

Mitsubishi   7,568   4,737   60%   35,816   22,292   61%
   
Infiniti   6,389   8,091   ?21%   40,986   38,996   5%
   Nissan Division   69,759   75,673   ?8%   392,046   336,766   16%
Nissan???   76,148   83,764   ?9%   433,032   375,762   15%

Porsche   2,817   1,873   50%   12,996   8,842   47%

Saab Cars North America?   385   174   121%   3,150   520   506%

Subaru   20,036   23,667   ?15%   112,255   104,359   8%

Suzuki   2,290   1,903   20%   11,124   9,514   17%
   
Lexus   12,305   22,216   ?45%   77,237   90,098   ?14%
   Scion   4,696   4,112   14%   23,165   17,262   34%
   Toyota division   91,386   136,485   ?33%   601,449   598,578   1%
   Toyota/Scion   96,082   140,597   ?32%   624,614   615,840   1%
Toyota??   108,387   162,813   ?33%   701,851   705,938   ?1%
   
Audi   10,457   9,205   14%   45,858   39,839   15%
   Bentley   226   134   69%   665   572   16%
   VW division   30,100   23,543   28%   125,681   104,961   20%
Volkswagen???   40,783   32,882   24%   172,204   145,372   19%

Volvo Cars North America????   7,359   ?   ?%   29,203   ?   ?%

Other (estimate)   244   241   1%   1,220   1,204   1%

TOTAL   1,061,841   1,103,043   ?4%   5,279,908   4,630,969   14%

Numbers in this table are calculated by Automotive News based on actual monthly sales reported by the manufacturers and may differ from numbers reported elsewhere.

Source: Automotive News Data Center

Note: Other includes estimates for Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Lotus

*Includes Mini and Rolls-Royce
**Includes Maybach, Mercedes-Benz and Smart
***Includes Volvo through July 2010
****Includes Saab through February 2010
?Includes Acura
??Includes Kia
???Includes Infiniti
?The sale of Saab was final on February 23, 2010
??Includes Lexus and Scion
???Includes Audi and Bentley
????The sale of Volvo to Zhejiang Geely Holding Group was final on Aug. 2, 2010

[Atomic]

good news for honda and americans in search of work...

Honda to add 2nd shift at Indiana plant, boosting Civic supplies

Honda is confident that its suppliers can support two shifts of Civic output at an Indiana plant because of the more than two months it has spent working to revive its supply chain.

Honda keeps fleet sales below 2 percent in North America as prior to two severe natural disasters in Japan just two months ago.

By: Ryan Beene

Automotive News -- May 31, 2011 - 6:10 pm ET
 
Honda Motor Co. plans to hire 1,000 additional workers and add a second production shift at its Civic plant in Greensburg, Ind., by the end of the year.

Workers at the factory were told of the plans last month, Honda spokesman Ed Miller said Tuesday.

The announcement comes as Civic production in North America is running at roughly half of normal levels due to supply chains damaged by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami disaster in Japan.

The parts shortages hit Civic output especially hard because Honda was in the midst of switching from production of the 2011 Civic to the redesigned 2012 model, Miller said.

Honda is confident that its suppliers can support two shifts of Civic production at the Indiana plant because of the more than two months it has spent working to revive its supply chain, Miller said.

"We have a much clearer view of where the parts are coming from and in what volumes," Miller said. "We have a better picture of our supply chain now and we're able to make that commitment."

Miller declined to say when Civic production would return to normal. Honda said last week that output of eight vehicles built in North America would return to normal levels in August, except the Civic.

Honda has always planned to operate two shifts at the Greensburg plant since its opening in 2008, Miller said. The plant can build 200,000 Civics annually with 2,000 employees working two shifts, he said.

Honda's U.S. sales are up 17 percent this year, with Civic demand also up 17 percent, in a market that has advanced 20 percent.

[Madman]

Amazing how the decade-old Ford Escape can still sell in such huge numbers!?!  How?  Why? 

[ifcar]

Amazing how the decade-old Ford Escape can still sell in such huge numbers!?!  How?  Why? 

Price, kind of. It's not the class value leader, but it's not as expensive as a CR-V or Equinox.

And it's got the basics: easy to drive, plenty of space, good visibility. Call it the Corolla of its class.

[shp4man]

The sun is setting on the reputation of the cars from the land of the rising sun. Another Toyota recall in the paper today.
All of you great Americans- maybe it's time to say "Sayonara" and buy an American car.

[Vinsanity]

The sun is setting on the reputation of the cars from the land of the rising sun. Another Toyota recall in the paper today.
All of you great Americans- maybe it's time to say "Sayonara" and buy an American car.

Yeah, just make sure you don't own it out of warranty. Learn from my fail.

p.s. buying a car based on nationality? Some progressive you are

[shp4man]

Yeah, just make sure you don't own it out of warranty. Learn from my fail.

p.s. buying a car based on nationality? Some progressive you are

Japanese cars never break. That's why they don't have service departments. Oh wait....

[Vinsanity]

Japanese cars never break. That's why they don't have service departments. Oh wait....

This one repair is going to cost me more than the combined repair costs of all my previous Japanese cars combined. Sorry if that turns me off from any blind flag-waving nationalist consumer sentiment, but then again, I've always been put off by that attitude.

[shp4man]

This one repair is going to cost me more than the combined repair costs of all my previous Japanese cars combined. Sorry if that turns me off from any blind flag-waving nationalist consumer sentiment, but then again, I've always been put off by that attitude.

I don't know the particulars of your issue, or even what you drive. I can tell you that I know people who work in the service departments of dealerships that sell Japanese cars. Amazingly, they are some busy guys. Maytag repairmen? Not.

[sportyaccordy]

Nah, at best it's a mid-cycle update. Sat in one yesterday during my oil change - it's even less updated than pictures and specs led me to believe.

Honda takes a major risk in abusing the brand (i.e., a la Escort, Ranger, Taurus) by not coming out with an all-new Civic.

Lol, the current Corolla's underpinnings are no more updated, if anything they are older. Definitely less sophisticated.

[Byteme]

The best-seller of one of those automakers was the No. 12 Camry, though the Camry, Corolla, Accord and Civic remain on the top 10 YTD. Full Top 20 lists, May 2011 and year-to-date through May:

http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/top-20-best-selling-cars-of-may-2011-honda-and-toyota-absent-from-top-10

Note that 50% of the top 20 sellers are Fords or Chevrolets.    GOOD!

[Byteme]

People keep claiming that about Corolla fuel economy, and it's just not true. It's nearly best-in-class with the manual and certainly competitive with the automatic, and without EPA-cheating gearing tricks.


Manuals:
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/36, 31
Corolla: 28/35, 31
Cruze: 26/36, 30
2012 Focus: 26/36, 30
2011 Focus: 25/35, 29
2011 Civic: 26/34, 29
Forte: 25/34, 29
Mazda3: 25/33, 28
Lancer: 24/33, 28
Sentra: 24/31, 27
SX4: 23/33, 26
Jetta: 23/33, 26
Impreza: 20/27, 22


Automatics (city/highway, overall -- EPA):
Elantra: 29/40, 33
2012 Civic: 28/39, 32
2012 Focus: 28/38, 31
Sentra: 27/34, 30
Forte: 26/36, 29
2011 Civic: 25/36, 29
Corolla: 26/34, 29
Cruze 1.4: 24/36, 28
2011 Focus: 25/34, 28
Lancer: 25/33, 28
SX4: 25/32, 28
Mazda3: 24/33, 27
Cruze 1.8: 22/35, 27
Jetta: 24/31, 27
Impreza: 20/26, 22

Most people buy automatics by far and the Corolla is mid pack with an automatic.

[Byteme]

Amazing how the decade-old Ford Escape can still sell in such huge numbers!?!  How?  Why? 

It was very, very right when it first came out and it's still competitive today.  Ford has done a very good job in keeping it updated. 

[GoCougs]

The sun is setting on the reputation of the cars from the land of the rising sun. Another Toyota recall in the paper today.
All of you great Americans- maybe it's time to say "Sayonara" and buy an American car.

Nah, Toyota still builds the best cars in the world. Detroit has made strides, especially GM in the phenomenal successes of the Malibu, Cruze, Equinox and Camaro, but all three Detroiters have a long way to go to challenge Toyota. A LONG way.

[2o6]

Nah, Toyota still builds the best cars in the world. Detroit has made strides, especially GM in the phenomenal successes of the Malibu, Cruze, Equinox and Camaro, but all three Detroiters have a long way to go to challenge Toyota. A LONG way.

Given the atrocious quality of my brother's '11 Camry SE, I don't agree at all.

[CJ]

Nah, Toyota still builds the best cars in the world. Detroit has made strides, especially GM in the phenomenal successes of the Malibu, Cruze, Equinox and Camaro, but all three Detroiters have a long way to go to challenge Toyota. A LONG way.

Quality in their new cars isn't there.  The interior of the $40,000 Sienna is mediocre at best.  The Camry?  Laughable.  We have a 2000 Camry LE and it's built very well.  The interior is made with good quality materials, the seats are comfortable, great sound system, and it still gets 35 MPG on the highway.  It was regular wear and tear, but it's still nicer than the brand new 2011 Camry LE, nearly identical to our car, that I drove a few months ago.

[Madman]

Given the atrocious quality of my brother's '11 Camry SE, I don't agree at all.

Even during Toyota's so-called "glory days" their cars were vastly overrated.  Many years ago my mother had a 1988 Camry that was as reliable as a crack addict.  Damn thing leaked more oil than the fucking Exxon Valdez, too.  It was her first....and last Toyota!

[Byteme]

Nah, Toyota still builds the best cars in the world. Detroit has made strides, especially GM in the phenomenal successes of the Malibu, Cruze, Equinox and Camaro, but all three Detroiters have a long way to go to challenge Toyota. A LONG way.

So, I said to myself, "Self, give the boy a break.  Un-ignore him". Then this post came along.  Back to ignore for you.  

[CJ]

Our Camry doesn't leak a drip of oil and we've owned it since new.  It literally had 6 miles on it when we took delivery.  It's been maintained very well and has never left us stranded. 

[Mustangfan2003]

Toyota builds the best cars, where is the link for that.  My dad has a coworker that had a Corolla that broke a crankshaft.  That has never happen to any American car we have owned. 

[Mustangfan2003]

Also like to add

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

[Byteme]

Toyota builds the best cars, where is the link for that.  My dad has a coworker that had a Corolla that broke a crankshaft.  That has never happen to any American car we have owned.  

Start with JD Power and you will see that Toyota has been living on it's rapidly tarnishing reputation for about 2-5 years, depending on the model.  

[Morris Minor]

No kidding.  Ford needs to pull a Cadillac or cut it loose.

Exactly.There's not enough daylight between Ford models & their fraternal twin Lincoln equivalents. Badge engineering does not cut it these days.

[MX793]

Exactly.There's not enough daylight between Ford models & their fraternal twin Lincoln equivalents. Badge engineering does not cut it these days.

Seems to be working pretty well for VWAG.

[Laconian]

Seems to be working pretty well for VWAG.

There may be overlap in the $30-50k end of the spectrum, but the reach of Audi's upper end far exceeds Volkswagen's. Audi has the RS cars, the R8, and the TT.