Which Sedan from Japan?

[ifcar]

I didn't say "all Camry buyers are biased", I said they were as a group, which means "in general".

[ifcar]

Did I say that no Toyotas are good except for those two? No, I said I don't LIKE them. Like is completely subjective. Toyotas are good cars, just not my kind of car. The only things I like about most Toyotas are their reliability, fuel economy, and resale value. And, I was considering only cars, though the Rav4 and Highlander also get good gas mileage.

Among Lexus sedans, only the ES330 gets impressive fuel economy against its competitors.

And generalizations like "the interiors aren't great" (though I'm pretty sure I remember you extensively praising the LX470/Land Cruiser interior against the Range Rover) and "I don't like anything but..." have too many exceptions, Toyota just makes too many different cars.  

[cawimmer430]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

[Raza]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

Man, I think the GS looks a little better in person, but still bloated.  It's like they took the last generation, and blew really hard into the tail pipes so it puffed out.  

[mazda6er]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

Man, I think the GS looks a little better in person, but still bloated.  It's like they took the last generation, and blew really hard into the tail pipes so it puffed out.

The last gen was way uglier than the new one, IMO.

[Raza]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

Man, I think the GS looks a little better in person, but still bloated.  It's like they took the last generation, and blew really hard into the tail pipes so it puffed out.

The last gen was way uglier than the new one, IMO.

I don't particularly like any of them, though we did own a first gen, oh so long ago.  It was very smooth.

[cozmik]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

I agree completely about the looks Wimmer.    

[footoflead]

M45 for me B)

[SJ_GTI]

I would take the M45 (or M35 honestly) first, then the RL, then the GS out of this bunch.

Out of all Japanese sport sedans I have driven the G35 is probably the nicest. I am looking forward to test driving an IS250 6MT when they hit dealers though. It looks like a great car in just about every way. Only real issue would be the permanent electronic overrides.

[cozmik]

I would take the M45 (or M35 honestly) first, then the RL, then the GS out of this bunch.

Out of all Japanese sport sedans I have driven the G35 is probably the nicest. I am looking forward to test driving an IS250 6MT when they hit dealers though. It looks like a great car in just about every way. Only real issue would be the permanent electronic overrides.

From my understanding, the IS250 doesn't have the electronics.  

[Speed_Racer]

1) M45 (The alternative to a BMW, without the bill. Still, it's too fat looking for me)
2) RL (Less fat than the others, but not as sporty looking as the M45)
3) GS430 (Fat and bloated, bland as heck)

[thewizard16]

Lexus GS for me. I love the way that car looks, especially after seeing it in person. The Infiniti is nice too, but I don't like the interior. I actually like the Acura RL as well, I don't think it looks like an Accord at all but it doesn't win me over as much as the Lexus.

That's pretty much how I feel, as well. I like the M for the mechanics powering it, but the interior doesn't appeal to me at all, and I don't really think the exterior looks much better than either of the other two. I like the GS's styling a bit more after seeing it in person, I just wish they'd do something about the dash. I could live with it more than the M's interior, but it just doesn't look like a Lexus dash to me.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

M45 was the easy pick for me, though i wish i could get it in a manual transmission model.

[TBR]

Did I say that no Toyotas are good except for those two? No, I said I don't LIKE them. Like is completely subjective. Toyotas are good cars, just not my kind of car. The only things I like about most Toyotas are their reliability, fuel economy, and resale value. And, I was considering only cars, though the Rav4 and Highlander also get good gas mileage.

Among Lexus sedans, only the ES330 gets impressive fuel economy against its competitors.

And generalizations like "the interiors aren't great" (though I'm pretty sure I remember you extensively praising the LX470/Land Cruiser interior against the Range Rover) and "I don't like anything but..." have too many exceptions, Toyota just makes too many different cars.

First, I made a specific attempt to exclude Toyota/Lexus trucks because I actually like them, something that can't be said of their cars. Seconds, the LS430 also gets better than average gas mileage IIRC, and none of their cars are below the class average, something Infiniti can't say (besides, I was talking mainly about Toyotas, very few Lexus owners are that concerned with fuel economy).


And, finally, both of the cars that I said I specifically like are no longer in production (from what I have seen so far the new IS is nothing remarkable, sort of like the GS in that aspect).

[93JC]

I poop on the poll choices.

If I ever got a sedan from Japan, it'd be one of these:



 

[ifcar]

And, finally, both of the cars that I said I specifically like are no longer in production (from what I have seen so far the new IS is nothing remarkable, sort of like the GS in that aspect).

The IS looks to be much better in its class than the GS was in its. It should have handling that is at least competitive, and acceleration is at or near the top of its class, depending on how much of a ringer you believe the C/D tester to be.  

[TBR]

The problem is I don't care about acceleration at that price point and the IS has the same overbearing electronic nannies the GS has.  

[ifcar]

But I would never call the IS close to worst-in-class because of its "nannies". The GS has them as well, just without other redeeming qualities.  

[TBR]

Where did I call the IS worst in class? For that matter, where did I call the GS worst in class? (though it is pretty close imho) Just because I don't particularly like a car doesn't mean I think it is worst in class.

[ifcar]

You said that the IS was similar to the GS, and (IMO) the GS is the least-impressive vehicle in its class, unless I'm forgetting something.  

[TBR]

The problem with the IS is the same one the GS has, but the GS doesn't have an overwhelming power advantage to keep it from the back of the class while the IS does.

[ifcar]

The IS's class also has more vehicles with mediocre handling than the GS's. It also should have less of an interior-space deficit against other entry-luxes than the GS does against the luxury class.  

[JYODER240]

The IS's class also has more vehicles with mediocre handling than the GS's. It also should have less of an interior-space deficit against other entry-luxes than the GS does against the luxury class.

i'll get to drive the new IS any day now. Just as soon as it hits the lots.  

[ifcar]

I'm waiting for it, too.

[cawimmer430]

Why do people criticize Lexus handling so much? IMO, leave it to BMW and Infiniti to compete for the sports freaks. Lexus knows their crowd.    

[ifcar]

Focusing on comfort/luxury over handling is all well and good, but you have to at least get that right. Lexus didn't.  

[SJ_GTI]

The IS's class also has more vehicles with mediocre handling than the GS's. It also should have less of an interior-space deficit against other entry-luxes than the GS does against the luxury class.

i'll get to drive the new IS any day now. Just as soon as it hits the lots.

There is a Lexus dealer within walking distance for me. Once the new IS250 hits lots I will definitely be heading down there for a test drive.

[Raghavan]

The IS's class also has more vehicles with mediocre handling than the GS's. It also should have less of an interior-space deficit against other entry-luxes than the GS does against the luxury class.

i'll get to drive the new IS any day now. Just as soon as it hits the lots.

There is a Lexus dealer within walking distance for me. Once the new IS250 hits lots I will definitely be heading down there for a test drive.

It'll be really easy for you to get into a IS250 for a drive once the dealer sees your A4.  

[SJ_GTI]

The IS's class also has more vehicles with mediocre handling than the GS's. It also should have less of an interior-space deficit against other entry-luxes than the GS does against the luxury class.

i'll get to drive the new IS any day now. Just as soon as it hits the lots.

There is a Lexus dealer within walking distance for me. Once the new IS250 hits lots I will definitely be heading down there for a test drive.

It'll be really easy for you to get into a IS250 for a drive once the dealer sees your A4.

I've never had trouble getting tet drives anyway. I tink I was driving a (rental) Chevy Malibu when I test drove an A4 and I was driving a cavalier when I went to test drive a 3-series up here. The salesman were always more than happy to let me drive the cars.

[Raza]

Salesmen don't think you're not serious when you're an adult.  SJZ3 is like 27.  That's a lot different than 17.