Challenge: What was the last 4 seat RWD car under 3,000lbs?

[hounddog]

  Nothing to gained by the debate, nobody is right or wrong here.

Holy shit, if you were anymore wrong you would be wrongermostestest.

Everything is debatable, and old people are always right and the older you are the righter you are.

WTBFFFF?????

 

[The Pirate]

Holy shit, if you were anymore wrong you would be wrongermostestest.

Everything is debatable, and old people are always right and the older you are the righter you are.

WTBFFFF?????

 

Settle down, gramps!

[hounddog]

 



WTBFFFF = wt bloody fucking fucked fuck fucker  ftw! 

[SVT32V]

New mustang and old is like night and day. IIRC, Hemi himself said that the SN95 chassis is pretty flexible. Even so, the tuning of the new Mustang is awesome.


And I like Mustangs....but there's a reason why you see so many small hatches at autocross and track events. They handle by in large, brilliantly.






The SVT Focus is one of the best handling hot hatches of all time.

Fox3 mustangs were pretty flexible like most cars from that time but the SN-95s were a major improvement and not that bad.

As far as handling, need I remind you of the import magazine test pitting a integra type R against a mustang GT. Power to weight isn't that different and the mustang owned the R in every test except the tightest parking lot course.

fwd hatches exist because many people like them, not because they are better performers. Hot hatches are plentiful and driven by young people, so it is no surprise to see more at an autocross event.

Most reasonably priced hot hatches of today would be left on a road course by a 2011 mustang v6, see car and drivers lightning lap, yet they still sell fairly well.

Why because they have other attributes that people like, not because they perform better than a random car X.

It is good that the world has both.

[SVT32V]

I find this very unlikely.  The 2012 Focus weighs north of 2900 lbs as it is, and I don't see it getting lighter when they start adding performance hardware like added chassis bracing, bigger wheels and tires, bigger brakes, and the bigger engine.  If it manages to come in under 3000 lbs, it will be by only a couple of pounds.

So the subcompact/compact economy cars are nearly 3000 lbs and sporty is decrying the lack of sub 3000 lb rwders.

[omicron]

The last Commodore to drop below 3000lbs was the '94 VR II with the V6 (2916lbs):



The Nissan 200SX, sold until '02, was well under at 2788lbs and an '05 318ti weighs in at 2866lbs, but I wouldn't want to put any people in those rear seats.

[MX793]

So the subcompact/compact economy cars are nearly 3000 lbs and sporty is decrying the lack of sub 3000 lb rwders.

All of the subcompacts are well under 3000 lbs.  I think the heaviest might touch 2700 lbs.  About half of the compact class (perhaps a bit more than half) are under 3000 lbs.  Lancer, Mazda3, Cruze, Impreza, Golf and Jetta (which I think might now be midsize, technically) are over 3000.  The rest, to my knowledge, are under by between 25 lbs to 300 lbs.

[MrH]

In defense of 2o6, you and many others prefer the Mustang, and he (and many others) prefer the Focus.  Nothing to gained by the debate, nobody is right or wrong here.

At this point, I would take a SVT Focus over a same year Mustang.  Nimble, great steering, great handling out of the box, more utility, and a superior fun to drive factor on a twisty back road, IMO.

And in hounddog's defense, 2o6 is arguing about a bunch of cars, none of which he's driven.  He's telling us the SVT is a better handler because the chassis of the mustang is flexible, but couldn't even tell us what that means in the context of handling.

It's like arguing with a poor summary of all the car mags over the last few years.  Nothing is being said with any sort of experience or understanding.

[SVT666]

SVT Focus was $18.5k (the only price I could find in a very quick search) while the Mustang GT was just over $20k. 

The GT was 0-60 in 5.4, and, you are insane if you think it did not handle well.  As well as a BMW or Corvette?  Of course not, but a few hundred bucks worth of shocks and springs and it handled better than the SVT Focus could.

Also, gas mileage was close enough to be a push unless you were going on a 250 mile road trip. 

Sorry.

Uh no.  I have an SVT Focus and I had an SN95 Mustang GT.  My SVT Focus would easily run away from my Mustang GT on a twisty two laner even though my Mustang had a Kenny Brown suspension kit in it.  Gas mileage is easily in the Focus' favour despite the Premium Only requirement.

[The Pirate]

And in hounddog's defense, 2o6 is arguing about a bunch of cars, none of which he's driven.  He's telling us the SVT is a better handler because the chassis of the mustang is flexible, but couldn't even tell us what that means in the context of handling.

It's like arguing with a poor summary of all the car mags over the last few years.  Nothing is being said with any sort of experience or understanding.

Point taken.  Spurious claims were there on both sides.

More than anything, hounddog's dismissive comments towards the SVT Focus resonated with me.  It's a competent, special car.

[SVT32V]

Uh no.  I have an SVT Focus and I had an SN95 Mustang GT.  My SVT Focus would easily run away from my Mustang GT on a twisty two laner even though my Mustang had a Kenny Brown suspension kit in it.  Gas mileage is easily in the Focus' favour despite the Premium Only requirement.

The mustang with power adder and suspension mods?  I would imagine without power adder the GT and SVT have similar power to weight, in which case I would give it to the SVT hands down.

KB makes reasonable bracing, but their handling kits are somewhat lacking IMO.

[hounddog]

The mustang with power adder and suspension mods?  I would imagine without power adder the GT and SVT have similar power to weight, in which case I would give it to the SVT hands down.

KB makes reasonable braking, but their handling kits are somewhat lacking IMO.

This ^^^^^^

Uh no.  I have an SVT Focus and I had an SN95 Mustang GT.  My SVT Focus would easily run away from my Mustang GT on a twisty two laner even though my Mustang had a Kenny Brown suspension kit in it.  Gas mileage is easily in the Focus' favour despite the Premium Only requirement.

LULzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHO THE HELL CALLS MUSTANGS BY THE COMPANY DESIGNATION?  LOLOLOLOL  Except, of course, someone trying to impress.  

I had a 96 Cobra convertible, far more flex than the SVT you are talking about, so I know what I am talking about.  A few hundred dollars will fix the suspension, and a couple hundred in frame stiffeners and a new strut tower brace fixed the flex to the point you could hardly notice any.    I seriously doubt there were SVT Focus out there that were as able in the twisties.  

Also, please explain why the CVPI, with its virtually identical setup to the Mustang, hands it to the SVT Focus in every chase I have ever seen or heard of?    

Lastly, did you ever consider that maybe you just are not a very good driver when it comes to RWD?  Some people just do not understand how to drive them hard. 

[S204STi]

Dog, not being hostile, just suggesting: you should drive a Focus, much less an SVT Focus, before passing judgement on its flat-out speed in the twisties.  I'm certain, in fact, that on at least one road around here I could hang on the ass of pretty much anything on the road with one, it's that good of a handler.

[565]

I think the JDM Toyota Altezza was 1340kgs, so that's just under 3000lbs.  And that's a 4 door!

[SVT666]

This ^^^^^^

LULzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHO THE HELL CALLS MUSTANGS BY THE COMPANY DESIGNATION?  LOLOLOLOL  Except, of course, someone trying to impress.  

Mustang enthusiasts.  I have never been on a Mustang forum where they don't.  I have had 3 Stangs and I have always referred to them by their chassis designations. 

I had a 96 Cobra convertible, far more flex than the SVT you are talking about, so I know what I am talking about.  A few hundred dollars will fix the suspension, and a couple hundred in frame stiffeners and a new strut tower brace fixed the flex to the point you could hardly notice any.    I seriously doubt there were SVT Focus out there that were as able in the twisties.  

I guarantee it, that any SVT Focus would outrun it in the twisties.

Also, please explain why the CVPI, with its virtually identical setup to the Mustang, hands it to the SVT Focus in every chase I have ever seen or heard of?    

Driver ability.  THere is no way in hell that a CVPI could ever keep up with an SVT Focus on any road if the drivers are of equal ability.

Lastly, did you ever consider that maybe you just are not a very good driver when it comes to RWD?  Some people just do not understand how to drive them hard. 

Nope.  I'm better with RWD then I am with FWD anyway.  Maybe you should consider that you know jack shit about the SVT Focus.  It's hellaciously fast in the twisties and it handles and brakes much better than any SN95 Mustang I have ever driven and that includes a 1997 Cobra Coupe.  Don't forget, this is coming from the biggest Mustang whore on this site.  The Mustang was more fun, for sure, but there is no way it could keep up in the corners.

[MX793]

Also, please explain why the CVPI, with its virtually identical setup to the Mustang, hands it to the SVT Focus in every chase I have ever seen or heard of?   

Because the guy in the CVPI has a radio and calls in for backup/spike-strips and/or manages to catch up when the SVT gets tangled up in traffic.  On open road, one-on-one, a CV isn't going to catch an SVT Focus unless the Focus driver screws up and puts it into the ditch.

[SVT32V]

It's hellaciously fast in the twisties and it handles and brakes much better than any SN95 Mustang I have ever driven and that includes a 1997 Cobra Coupe.  Don't forget, this is coming from the biggest Mustang whore on this site.  The Mustang was more fun, for sure, but there is no way it could keep up in the corners.

Stopping distance of an sn-95 cobra and SVT focus are within 5 ft of each other (60-0). Both have good brakes, up until the terminator (to much wt and more power).

[hounddog]

Mustang enthusiasts.  I have never been on a Mustang forum where they don't.  I have had 3 Stangs and I have always referred to them by their chassis designations.

 Internet forums?  LOL  Pretty much defines my point.   Could you at least be specific, then, when using their designations?

I guarantee it, that any SVT Focus would outrun it in the twisties.

 Your guarantee is pretty much worth the paper it is printed on.

Driver ability.  THere is no way in hell that a CVPI could ever keep up with an SVT Focus on any road if the drivers are of equal ability.

Proof?  

I have seen this many times on this forum, yet, in other threads police ability is questioned.  

Comical.

Nope.  I'm better with RWD then I am with FWD anyway.

Or your driving 'ability' is all in your head?  

Maybe you should consider that you know jack shit about the SVT Focus.

Based on what, exactly?  You literally know nothing about me that I have not allowed you to know.  

It's hellaciously fast in the twisties and it handles and brakes much better than any SN95 Mustang I have ever driven and that includes a 1997 Cobra Coupe.  Don't forget, this is coming from the biggest Mustang whore on this site.  The Mustang was more fun, for sure, but there is no way it could keep up in the corners.

Sorry, the braking ability of the Cobra is pretty much equal.  Nice try though.

Always fun to debate with you, you get personal so quickly.  No wonder Cougs likes to stir you up. 

I will help you out, however; some of this post is me pulling your leg because, honestly, it is as easy to get you going as it is to get Benzboi going, and some of it is me being serious.  I will leave it to you to decide which is which.

Because the guy in the CVPI has a radio and calls in for backup/spike-strips and/or manages to catch up when the SVT gets tangled up in traffic.  On open road, one-on-one, a CV isn't going to catch an SVT Focus unless the Focus driver screws up and puts it into the ditch.

Not exactly what I was asking.

I think some you guys really do not understand the training police officers get.

[hounddog]

Dog, not being hostile, just suggesting: you should drive a Focus, much less an SVT Focus, before passing judgement on its flat-out speed in the twisties.  I'm certain, in fact, that on at least one road around here I could hang on the ass of pretty much anything on the road with one, it's that good of a handler.

Assuming I never have, of course.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Focus > Mustang.
Let's keep this going.

[hounddog]

Focus > Mustang.
Let's keep this going.

Fairly vague, no?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Fairly vague, no?

How is this for vague?

[hounddog]

How is this for vague?

Unrelated?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Unrelated?

It's a Focus with a Mustang V8, four seats, RWD, and under 3,000 lbs. Completely related.

[hounddog]

It's a Focus with a Mustang V8, four seats, RWD, and under 3,000 lbs. Completely related.

Sort of hard to tell all that from the remarkably vague photo. 



Now a car like that I could honestly get into, if it were bigger and say, 4500 pounds. 

[SVT666]

 Internet forums?  LOL  Pretty much defines my point.   Could you at least be specific, then, when using their designations?

Internet forums, performance shops, etc.

SN95 = 1994-2004

 Your guarantee is pretty much worth the paper it is printed on.

I have owned both and driven both very hard for about 3 years each, and my Mustang was extensively modified and was a better machine than your Cobra was.

Based on what, exactly?  You literally know nothing about me that I have not allowed you to know.  

If you had ever driven an SVT Focus balls out then you wouldn't be making these comments.  That's how I know.

Sorry, the braking ability of the Cobra is pretty much equal.  Nice try though.

Yes...in distance.  The Mustang (Cobra or not) nosedives like a mofo under hard braking even with aftermarket suspension, whereas the SVTF has very little nosedive and the driver has much better control because of it.




[/quote]

[hounddog]

Internet forums, performance shops, etc.

SN95 = 1994-2004

Not specific enough. 

I have owned both and driven both very hard for about 3 years each, and my Mustang was extensively modified and was a better machine than your Cobra was.

Do you know what modifications mine had? 

If you had ever driven an SVT Focus balls out then you wouldn't be making these comments.  That's how I know.

   Ok.

Yes...in distance.  The Mustang (Cobra or not) nosedives like a mofo under hard braking even with aftermarket suspension, whereas the SVTF has very little nosedive and the driver has much better control because of it.

So, you are saying a car which has nose-dive (which the mustang of that era has minimal amounts) automatically makes the car undrivable under braking? 

Seriously? 

I think we are done here. 

[2o6]

Point taken.  Spurious claims were there on both sides.

More than anything, hounddog's dismissive comments towards the SVT Focus resonated with me.  It's a competent, special car.

+1.

[MX793]

This ^^^^^^

LULzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHO THE HELL CALLS MUSTANGS BY THE COMPANY DESIGNATION?  LOLOLOLOL  Except, of course, someone trying to impress.   

FYI, "Fox" is also a company designation for a Ford platform.

[Eye of the Tiger]

SVTF is an amazing machine.
Mustang drives like a lowered pickup truck.