The New 911

[Submariner]

The new Porsche 7-sp M/T has 7 distinct gates:

Well, for starters, that's quite clearly a picture of a 997 interior, a pre-facelift 997 if I'm not mistaken. 

If it were up to me, I'd go with a traditional 6-speed setup with a computer activated 7th only when you're in 6th.  But that's just me. 

What would be the point of the clutch with a sequential?

What's the point of a clutch, period?  Though, I agree that in all likely hood, it would be more engaging to row through a standard manual format than to simply flick the shifter up and down. 

On the whole, I really like the way this car looks both inside and out. 

[MexicoCityM3]

Meh, this will bring the new 7th to 4th money shift innovation.

[68_427]

That made absolutely no sense at all.

There's a missing word in there, but a true sequential manual offers nothing over PDK.

[CJ]

The rear reminds me very much of the 993.

[MX793]

What would be the point of the clutch with a sequential?

Motorcycles do it....

[r0tor]

I mean a true sequential with a clutch but I don't think we'd ever see in that in a road car.

Didn't the mr2 have one?

I think the smartfour2 has one as well

[r0tor]

I think I like evrything except the sharp body panel line across the rear and cutoff looking tail lights

[2o6]

Didn't the mr2 have one?

I think the smartfour2 has one as well

That's an automated manual, not a sequential manual.

[MX793]

That's an automated manual, not a sequential manual.

All automated manuals are sequential manuals....

The MR-S had an SMG gearbox without an automatic mode, but like all other commercially available SMG boxes, the clutch was automated.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I hope that's how it would work.  7 gears with a stick is ridiculous.

Huh? It's just one more gear.

I don't at all understand the ridicule of the 7-speed manual. If you can find 3rd when you're driving, finding 5th can't be that much more difficult...



Plus, Porsche is even bothering to update the manual transmission, which should be given its own set of praise on top of everything.

[Cookie Monster]

There's a missing word in there, but a true sequential manual offers nothing over PDK.

...which is why I said it'd never be offered in road cars as automated manuals already exist.

I think it'd be awesome though.

[SVT666]

Huh? It's just one more gear.

I don't at all understand the ridicule of the 7-speed manual. If you can find 3rd when you're driving, finding 5th can't be that much more difficult...



Plus, Porsche is even bothering to update the manual transmission, which should be given its own set of praise on top of everything.

How about an 8 speed manual?  I mean, it's only one more than 7.  Or a 9 speed manual, after all it's only one more gear than 8.

[2o6]

How about an 8 speed manual?  I mean, it's only one more than 7.  Or a 9 speed manual, after all it's only one more gear than 8.

21 speed?

[SVT666]

I mean, six is a lot of gears.  I skip gears all the time, so I have a hard time understanding what the point in another one is? 

[2o6]

I mean, six is a lot of gears.  I skip gears all the time, so I have a hard time understanding what the point in another one is? 

A higher overdrive, or a lower underdrive.


A car like this, you could be at 110MPH at like 2K.

[GoCougs]

More gears = better, that's why.

[GoCougs]

...which is why I said it'd never be offered in road cars as automated manuals already exist.

I think it'd be awesome though.

It would certainly cure the herky-jerky low speed issues that pretty much all automated manuals have...

[SVT666]

More gears = better, that's why.

Not always.  Especially when you have to do all the shifting.  Why not put 21 speed manuals in a car if more gears is always better Cougs?

[2o6]

Not always.  Especially when you have to do all the shifting.  Why not put 21 speed manuals in a car if more gears is always better Cougs?

Ideally, he's right. More gears = more range of control for the engine.



In the grand scheme of things, CVT's IN THEORY SHOULD BE the best option, but the operation and longevity issues are still not good for high performance cars.

[Cookie Monster]

A higher overdrive, or a lower underdrive.


A car like this, you could be at 110MPH at like 2K.

Shorter gears is kind of dumb when the 911 TT does 0-60 in less than 3 seconds already. You'd waste time just shifting more.

And what's the point of doing 2k at 110 mph? Most people will never drive it that fast on public roads, and certainly not long enough for there to be any benefits to running at 2k vs 4-5k. And on the track I can't think of a good reason to be at 2000 rpm. You're going to be out of the powerband which is useless.

[GoCougs]

Not always.  Especially when you have to do all the shifting.  Why not put 21 speed manuals in a car if more gears is always better Cougs?

Then what do you know that Porsche engineers don't?

And big rigs often have 15 - 18+ gears.

More gears = better, with the CVT being the pinnacle.

[Tave]

Then what do you know that Porsche engineers don't?

And big rigs often have 15 - 18+ gears.

More gears = better, with the CVT being the pinnacle.

Porsche engineers may have sacrificed some of the action in exchange for increased economy and performance. Everyone will have a different opinion on that. To some it might not be worth the loss in feel if the gains aren't large enough. Others may find the closer ratios pointless and bothersome if they were already satisfied the car's performance.

More gears = more parts. A better question would be why did Porsche engineers wait until now to do this if it was such a good idea? Could it be that these transmissions were too big/expensive/complex/infeasible until now? Are we so sure that their first attempt will be super-duper-awesome? Hmm, I wonder...

If CVT is the pinnacle of transmissions, why didn't Porsche engineers use it?

[2o6]

Because CVT technology is still quite limited.

You guys sound like you'd be in favor of a three speed on this car.

[Tave]

Because CVT technology is still quite limited.

Oh, so you mean that just because something works in theory, doesn't mean it will translate to the real world?

You guys sound like you'd be in favor of a three speed on this car.

Actually I have no opinion one way or the other. I can understand both sides to the argument. We'll have to wait and see what the reviews say. My gut reaction tells me that the PDK will be more liveable, while the manual will work fine but won't be as fluid as the previous 6-speed. That's just a SWAG though.

[2o6]

The idea behind a CVT is great, the technology still isn't quite there. It works fine in the real world....



There are some longevity and response issues that should be addressed before one is put into a car like this.

[Tave]

The idea behind a CVT is great, the technology still isn't quite there. It works fine in the real world....

Not in this application. That was my point. The theory of using a CVT-like device in a 911 is wonderful, but the reality is the technology just isn't there yet.

In theory, this 7-speed should improve gas mileage and performance, but in reality will people appreciate the added value in light of possible drawbacks? I dunno.

It's not a perfect analogy, I admit, but I think it serves.

There are some longevity and response issues that should be addressed before one is put into a car like this.

Exactly, and there are reasons why every automaker doesn't put 7-speed manuals in their cars, right?

[sportyaccordy]

Motorcycles do it....

Yea but motorcycles aren't fun

A Cavalier w/a stickshift >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a DSG 997 C2S, as far as driving pleasure goes.

It's ALL about the STICK.

[sportyaccordy]

Then what do you know that Porsche engineers don't?

And big rigs often have 15 - 18+ gears.

More gears = better, with the CVT being the pinnacle.

Have you driven a car w/CVT? They suck. I mean, they do what they're supposed to do, but they add another layer of viscous coupling in the interface between the driver and the car. For a DD penalty box for someone who drives for no reason other than to get from point A to B, sure. For someone w/any driving for pleasure bone in their body, no freaking way.

There's a good reason there hasn't, isn't, and prob never will be a sports car w/CVT. And no, torque limits are not the reason (see: Nissan V6 transmission).

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yea but motorcycles aren't fun

A Cavalier w/a stickshift >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a DSG 997 C2S, as far as driving pleasure goes.

It's ALL about the STICK.

[2o6]

Have you driven a car w/CVT? They suck. I mean, they do what they're supposed to do, but they add another layer of viscous coupling in the interface between the driver and the car. For a DD penalty box for someone who drives for no reason other than to get from point A to B, sure. For someone w/any driving for pleasure bone in their body, no freaking way.

There's a good reason there hasn't, isn't, and prob never will be a sports car w/CVT. And no, torque limits are not the reason (see: Nissan V6 transmission).

Do you know how long it took Nissan to engineer a CVT that could handle the torque? Do you know that there are still nagging longevity and reliability issues with the V6 CVT setup?



I like CVT's, but for a sports car, the response time needs to be sharpened up a lot more.


That really is the only legitimate reason I can think as to why CVT's aren't used in sports cars. Because if it were about emotion entirely, there would be no DSG or automatic sports cars.