Opinions on LR2

[Raza]

The Grand Cherokee is not that much bigger (~10 inches), has a much nicer interior than the LR2 and is much more capable. For the money you would spend on an LR2 you could get a really nicely optioned out GC.

10 inches is huge.  The difference between a compact and a midsize sedan is 10 inches, if that. 

[TurboDan]

Thanks for the opinions so far! I'm not really big on the Subie or any of the Volvo SUVs. No offense, but they seem like "mom" SUVs to me. The sand around where I live is pretty damn soft (have to let the air out of the tires beforehand) but I'm really only looking to get up on the beach with my fishing gear. Only would drive a couple blocks from jetty to jetty, really. I've seen Escapes do fine on the beach by me, so not overly concerned on that.

As mentioned, I'd only buy an LR2 used. I found one locally with 33K on the clock, upgraded stereo and nav touch screen for $21K.

I will also look at the JGC. I actually like them a lot, just don't like the larger size. As for the LR2, I really like the idea of the straight 6 from the S80 in there. That's a great engine! Have driven a car wih that one before.

[Raza]

Thanks for the opinions so far! I'm not really big on the Subie or any of the Volvo SUVs. No offense, but they seem like "mom" SUVs to me. The sand around where I live is pretty damn soft (have to let the air out of the tires beforehand) but I'm really only looking to get up on the beach with my fishing gear. Only would drive a couple blocks from jetty to jetty, really. I've seen Escapes do fine on the beach by me, so not overly concerned on that.

As mentioned, I'd only buy an LR2 used. I found one locally with 33K on the clock, upgraded stereo and nav touch screen for $21K.

I will also look at the JGC. I actually like them a lot, just don't like the larger size. As for the LR2, I really like the idea of the straight 6 from the S80 in there. That's a great engine! Have driven a car wih that one before.

"The force-fed flat-four's combination of torque, gearing, and weight will get you a blazing 0-to-60 time of 5.3 seconds and a quarter-mile of 13.8 seconds at 97 mph, just 0.3 second slower than an $89,665 Porsche Cayenne Turbo"

"The shifter was as sweet as a peach, the clutch nice and light, and the engine truly heroic. With this kind of power and weight, the little XT ends up as the only real hot rod in the entire small-SUV spectrum; it's capable of nearly 130 mph."

"There are lots of cars, trucks, and SUVs out there with overcooked plasticky interiors. The Subaru Forester 2.5XT is not one of them. It is the very model of restraint, with an aggregation of sport seats, textures, textiles, and metallic elements in the cockpit that put it in the same league as the attractive Mercury Mountaineer's interior design. It doesn't wear on you or distract you; it's just there to look plenty good and serve your needs as they arise."



Doesn't sound very mumsy to me.  

[r0tor]

Thanks for the opinions so far! I'm not really big on the Subie or any of the Volvo SUVs. No offense, but they seem like "mom" SUVs to me. The sand around where I live is pretty damn soft (have to let the air out of the tires beforehand) but I'm really only looking to get up on the beach with my fishing gear. Only would drive a couple blocks from jetty to jetty, really. I've seen Escapes do fine on the beach by me, so not overly concerned on that.

As mentioned, I'd only buy an LR2 used. I found one locally with 33K on the clock, upgraded stereo and nav touch screen for $21K.

I will also look at the JGC. I actually like them a lot, just don't like the larger size. As for the LR2, I really like the idea of the straight 6 from the S80 in there. That's a great engine! Have driven a car wih that one before.

I didn't really like the size of the JGC either at first and i too was looking for a small SUV... But it handles so well that I really don't notice the size and it more then makes up for it in actual off road capability and hauling.

The LR2 actually was on my list as well.  A friend of mine has one and is pleased with it.  The handling on the thing seemed a bit clumsy despite the size.

[Lebowski]

The problem with excluding cars because they're too momsy is that all small SUVs fit that category. The LR2 is no less a mommy car /grocery getter than the forester or Volvo.

Raza might not know dick about french fries, but IMHO the forester best fits the criteria you laid out.

[r0tor]

Almost all of the smallish cute utes have femanine styling... The LR2 is one of the few that's a bit more manly

[68_427]

If you're not a fan of the Forester's interior the Outback 2.5XT was available with auto or manual as well.

[Galaxy]

The problem with excluding cars because they're too momsy is that all small SUVs fit that category. The LR2 is no less a mommy car /grocery getter than the forester or Volvo.

Raza might not know dick about french fries, but IMHO the forester best fits the criteria you laid out.

What he is saying is buy a Wrangler, or a Defender. 

[68_427]

The 4 door Wrangler with updated interior and V6 might actually be worth a look.

[Atomic]

The 4 door Wrangler with updated interior and V6 might actually be worth a look.

a lot reviews are starting to appear in the october issues of car/truck magazines. five speed automatics replace four speed autos. i think six speed manuals are started across the board.

[Lebowski]

The 4 door Wrangler with updated interior and V6 might actually be worth a look.

4 door wrangler hits the beach car about perfectly but it gives up a lot as far as refinement.  I haven't seen the new interior.

[TurboDan]

4 door wrangler hits the beach car about perfectly but it gives up a lot as far as refinement.  I haven't seen the new interior.

I have nothing against the Wrangler, but it's really not what I'm looking for. I'm really looking for a luxury or near-lux small SUV that has the capability to also carry my fishing equipment onto the beach and jump a couple puddles when my street floods at high tide. Being in the business I'm in, I also find that on occasion I have to be out in storms and in other hard-to-reach places where my Passat ain't the right vehicle to get the job done.

As for not wanting a "mom" SUV, well, that's really a personal judgment call. I don't need to buy an F-350 and drive like a bully to prove my manhood. At the same time, I'd rather not drive around in a feminine-looking vehicle, either. Personally, I disagree that all small SUVs are "mom" like. The Escape isn't, the new Liberty isn't (the old one was) nor is the Xterra. The X3 is borderline, but I'd consider it fully unisex. I tend to think that guys who feel the need to buy a massive SUV they don't really need in order to look tough do so because they are lacking elsewhere

By the way, when did the 4Runner grow to become the monstrosity it currently is? Saw a new one today and that thing seemed massive.

[Lebowski]

I have nothing against the Wrangler, but it's really not what I'm looking for. I'm really looking for a luxury or near-lux small SUV that has the capability to also carry my fishing equipment onto the beach and jump a couple puddles when my street floods at high tide. Being in the business I'm in, I also find that on occasion I have to be out in storms and in other hard-to-reach places where my Passat ain't the right vehicle to get the job done.

As for not wanting a "mom" SUV, well, that's really a personal judgment call. I don't need to buy an F-350 and drive like a bully to prove my manhood. At the same time, I'd rather not drive around in a feminine-looking vehicle, either. Personally, I disagree that all small SUVs are "mom" like. The Escape isn't, the new Liberty isn't (the old one was) nor is the Xterra. The X3 is borderline, but I'd consider it fully unisex. I tend to think that guys who feel the need to buy a massive SUV they don't really need in order to look tough do so because they are lacking elsewhere

By the way, when did the 4Runner grow to become the monstrosity it currently is? Saw a new one today and that thing seemed massive.

Guess I should have said small unibody SUVs are mom-ish. I agree the xterra isn't, nor is the wrangler. And I'm not the one who used it as an insult - I still think the forester is the vest recommendation so far, I was just saying it seems a bit arbitrary to dismiss the forester or Volvo as momish when IMO the lr2 is just as much of a mom car (and the 4runner ain't too far behind IMO, fwiw).

4runner has got progressively bigger with each of the last two generations. 3rd gen is my fav as far as size and styling. I like my 5th, but would like it even more if it was a bit smaller.

[Galaxy]

I don't like it because it misuses the Range Rover name, but what about an Evoque? It should be good enough for the beach. Granted it does cost ~7 grand more then the LR2.





The one thing that would concern me with all vehicles mentioned here is the driving through puddles of salt water thing....

[r0tor]

Those seats look so damn nice....

[Colonel Cadillac]

I don't like it because it misuses the Range Rover name, but what about an Evoque? It should be good enough for the beach. Granted it does cost ~7 grand more then the LR2.

Agreed, horrible use of brand equity to get sales. Horrible. The Range Rover Sport worked well--it's still pretty "up there," but this is basically entry-lux and the Range Rover name does not belong there.

[TurboDan]

Yeah, salt water is no good for any car, really. But it's a reality you just have to deal with when you live on a barrier island. We go through lots of CV joints and such around here. The Passat has to ford the salt sometimes as is.

[hounddog]

JGC!!!

Shut the doors.
Turn out the lights.
Send everyone home.

In your catagory of desires, the JGC is the best.  Even the leather is now fantastically supple.

Too small for my tastes, but, it is by all accounts magnificent.  I would then recommend the Durango and the Highlander.

Of course, it will be hard to excercise ones brand snobbery without a snobby brand.  

[Tave]

10 inches is huge.  The difference between a compact and a midsize sedan is 10 inches, if that.  

Civic - 175.5"
Accord - 194.9"


Jeep GC - 189.9"


Besides which, we're talking about SUVs here. The added length will mean next to nothing.

[ifcar]

Civic - 175.5"
Accord - 194.9"


Jeep GC - 189.9"


Besides which, we're talking about SUVs here. The added length will mean next to nothing.

Civic sedan is 177.3, actually. And that's not quite a fair example, because the Accord is quite a bit longer than most midsize sedans. Most are closer to what Raza was saying.

Difference between Cruze and Malibu: 10.8 inches
Focus sedan and Fusion: 12.1 inches
Elantra and Sonata: 11.5 inches
Sentra and Altima: 10.6 inches
Corolla and Camry: 9.9 inches
Jetta and Passat: 9.5 inches


In the case of the Grand Cherokee, though, it's the width that makes it feel big more than its length. The Grand Cherokee is closer to a Tahoe or Expedition than a RAV4 or CR-V in that measurement.

[Raza]

Civic - 175.5"
Accord - 194.9"


Jeep GC - 189.9"


Besides which, we're talking about SUVs here. The added length will mean next to nothing.

The Accord is not a midsize sedan. 

2010 Jetta: 179.30
2010 Passat:  187.60

[Tave]

The Accord is not a midsize sedan.  

2010 Jetta: 179.30
2010 Passat:  187.60

You've been droning on for years about how the Jetta isn't a compact.

Civic sedan is 177.3, actually.

Not according to MSNautos.

And that's not quite a fair example, because the Accord is quite a bit longer than most midsize sedans.

It's a great example, because the Accord/Civic sell more than any other compact/midsize combo excepting the Corolla/Camry. They're two of the most popular and most prevalent cars on the road.

[Tave]

In the case of the Grand Cherokee, though, it's the width that makes it feel big more than its length. The Grand Cherokee is closer to a Tahoe or Expedition than a RAV4 or CR-V in that measurement.

I don't think the Grand Cherokee feels big.

[Raza]

You've been droning on for years about how the Jetta isn't a compact.

Not according to MSNautos.

It's a great example, because the Accord/Civic sell more than any other compact/midsize combo excepting the Corolla/Camry. They're two of the most popular and most prevalent cars on the road.

I said it's as roomy as a midsize, but its overall dimensions fall firmly in the compact category. 

[Raza]

It's a great example, because the Accord/Civic sell more than any other compact/midsize combo excepting the Corolla/Camry. They're two of the most popular and most prevalent cars on the road.

It's completely irrelevant and a terrible example, as the Accord is an EPA large car.  You might as well have responded with the difference between crudite and a cheese plate. 

[ifcar]

Not according to MSNautos.

But according to Honda.

It's a great example, because the Accord/Civic sell more than any other compact/midsize combo excepting the Corolla/Camry. They're two of the most popular and most prevalent cars on the road.

They're size outliers. The others, as I showed, are closer in size, Camry and Corolla included. As you probably recall, Honda only enlarged the Accord for the most recent generation (probably in part because it has no Avalon/Impala/Taurus/Azera).

[Tave]

I have trouble terming a dominant market player an "outlier."

Regardless, you two are missing the point. The Jeep GC doesn't feel too big or unwieldy.

[2o6]

It's an outlier, because pretty much everything else that it competes with is physically smaller.


And if the GC doesn't feel unwieldy or big, then cars like the Sorento and X5 should be on the list.

[ifcar]

I have trouble terming a dominant market player an "outlier."

I don't. Something that's unusual is an outlier. Honda also sells ten zillion Accords, but you can't use it to say "midsize sedans in general don't have split-folding rear seats," to use just one example.

Regardless, you two are missing the point. The Jeep GC doesn't feel too big or unwieldy.

It would to someone who said an Xterra felt too big.

[Tave]

I don't. Something that's unusual is an outlier.

Exactly. Hondas aren't unusual. They are incredibly common and at times the most popular passenger car in the world.

Honda also sells ten zillion Accords, but you can't use it to say "midsize sedans in general don't have split-folding rear seats," to use just one example.

How about, "a very large number of midsize sedans on the road don't have split-folding rear seats."

It would to someone who said an Xterra felt too big.

Dimensions alone don't tell the whole story. Dan said that the Xterra felt a little too big but the LR2 felt just right. Well, the LR2 is actually 3 inches wider and almost the same length as the Xterra. I'm guessing the reason the Nissan feels larger is because it's taller. Coincidently, the Jeep GC is closer in height to the LR2.

Dan said he was interested in the GC, so maybe he should try it out and see how it feels.