Driven: Fiat 500

[Galaxy]

Not listening to you, H&H, H&H, lalalala...

WOW! 80% of 5 series on the road are company cars?

Right. You just made me notice that for the 5er, E class and A6 I quoted the diesel %, not the company car %. 

The correct values are 79.7% for the 5er 86.4% for the A6,  and 61% for the E class. Thankfully diesel and company car % are both relatively high, so it kinda worked out anyways. 

[Byteme]

Well, DUH.

Upping your game I see.   

[Laconian]

I wish I got a company car. We just have Insight zipcars.

[ChrisV]

I don't think so.  I purposely choose the 3-4 year old Civic because it will likely still be going strong when the Fiat is ready for the scrap heap.  And between purchase and the scrap heap will likely give the owner less trouble.

No, lets pick any new car, especially an economy car. There will be a better deal in a used car for the money. ANY new car. You buy a new car because it's the car you want, not because it's the best financial deal. Hell, *I* just bought a new MINI (well, it will br primarily the wife's car, otherwise there'd be a Fiat 500 in the driveway).

And I realize it's hyperbole, but the Fiat 500 has proven already to be quite reliable and durable in Europe. And yes, I've owned 3 Fiats before.

[Colin]

Right. You just made me notice that for the 5er, E class and A6 I quoted the diesel %, not the company car %. 

The correct values are 79.7% for the 5er 86.4% for the A6,  and 61% for the E class. Thankfully diesel and company car % are both relatively high, so it kinda worked out anyways. 

And probably even higher percentages of any car bigger than a Focus in the UK market.

This is why changes to the taxation regime have such a colossal impact on sales and therefore what the manufacturers offer.

[Byteme]

No, lets pick any new car, especially an economy car. There will be a better deal in a used car for the money. ANY new car. You buy a new car because it's the car you want, not because it's the best financial deal. Hell, *I* just bought a new MINI (well, it will br primarily the wife's car, otherwise there'd be a Fiat 500 in the driveway).

And I realize it's hyperbole, but the Fiat 500 has proven already to be quite reliable and durable in Europe. And yes, I've owned 3 Fiats before.

Good for you.       A lot of people can only buy what they can afford, which might very well be different than what they want. 

[Tave]

No, lets pick any new car, especially an economy car. There will be a better deal in a used car for the money. ANY new car. You buy a new car because it's the car you want, not because it's the best financial deal. Hell, *I* just bought a new MINI (well, it will br primarily the wife's car, otherwise there'd be a Fiat 500 in the driveway).

And I realize it's hyperbole, but the Fiat 500 has proven already to be quite reliable and durable in Europe. And yes, I've owned 3 Fiats before.

That's not quite accurate, especially as it pertains to the smaller segments, which are often a viable choice for cash-conscience buyers to obtain the quantitative benefits of new car ownership at a reasonable price.

For instance, I bought my Aveo brand new for ~$10,000. Sure, I could have purchased a 5-year old Civic with 60,000K miles on the clock for the same price, or even a 5-year old Echo with 60,000K miles for half the price, but all in all I think I made a fairly efficient economic choice. As far as value goes, I'm squeezing a lot of it out of my Chevy. IMO, that's the market Fiat should try to capture, because they've got the goods for it (Panda), and it's a much larger market in America. I think we all understand intuitively that what Fiat is aiming for w/ the 500 is more of a marketing exercise by creating excitement for the brand rather than making huge profits initially.

[CALL_911]

No, lets pick any new car, especially an economy car. There will be a better deal in a used car for the money. ANY new car. You buy a new car because it's the car you want, not because it's the best financial deal. Hell, *I* just bought a new MINI (well, it will br primarily the wife's car, otherwise there'd be a Fiat 500 in the driveway).

And I realize it's hyperbole, but the Fiat 500 has proven already to be quite reliable and durable in Europe. And yes, I've owned 3 Fiats before.

This

[Galaxy]

And probably even higher percentages of any car bigger than a Focus in the UK market.

This is why changes to the taxation regime have such a colossal impact on sales and therefore what the manufacturers offer.

How liberal are UK companies in this regard? In Germany many companies - perhaps the majority, I am not quite certain - simply give their employees a maximum lease rate and send them shopping. There is a reason why on almost every German car configurator you can see how option X will effect the lease rate.  Certainly the companies are getting more restrictive with things like CO2 emissions. SUVs are often black listed because of percieved bad PR.

[Onslaught]

1) HISTORY & HERITAGE  

2) STYLING (LIFESTYLE CAR)

3) FLAIR

Regarding part three, the Fiat 500 has FLAIR. The Mazda 2 and Ford Fiesta are passionless and characterless design wise when compared to the cute and snuggly Fiat 500. Both the Mazda and Ford look like econoboxes. Zero design charisma, unlike the Fiat 500, which also looks somewhat premium and upscale compared to the cars you mentioned.

1. Ford has H&H. Hell, I'd argue that Mazda has H&H with all the racing they've done over the years. Oh, and Fiat has H&H in the US. And it's not good H&H too.
2. Lifestyle car? Flair? I don't see it.

I must say that the 500 is one of the most overrated cars I've ever seen. I never saw what people loved about it. I don't even think it looks that great. It's not ugly, but it's not great looking.
I see NOTHING upscale about it. It's just as cheap looking as the Ford or the Mazda, cost more and it's interior feels like it could fall off if you sneeze too hard. I'd argue that the Mazda and Ford
are put together better too from what I've seen.

I don't hate the 500. But I don't get the love at all. And I waited to blast it until I saw one in person. I don't get it.

[Onslaught]

Hasn't killed the Mini, nearly a decade later.

The Mini is a good car. Not so sure about the 500.

[Atomic]

i do not know what all the fuss is about, but journalists, i.e., CR rave about this small fiat. it is cute, but that is about it, imo.

[afty]

The Fiat has some cache.  It definitely is cheap, but it draws attention.  My enthusiast buddies all wanted to see it, and a friend who instructs HPDEs for the local Audi club wants to get an Abarth when they come out.  And while I was driving it, it drew stares and even initiated conversations with strangers... in Boston, where talking to strangers is frowned upon to say the least.  I can see buying one for those reasons, and I'm not convinced it's any worse than its competitors in the $16k segment.  Note also that the base Fiat is actually pretty well equipped; it's not like other cars where the base model is something that no one would ever drive.

[Atomic]

The Fiat has some cache.  It definitely is cheap, but it draws attention.  My enthusiast buddies all wanted to see it, and a friend who instructs HPDEs for the local Audi club wants to get an Abarth when they come out.  And while I was driving it, it drew stares and even initiated conversations with strangers... in Boston, where talking to strangers is frowned upon to say the least.  I can see buying one for those reasons, and I'm not convinced it's any worse than its competitors in the $16k segment.  Note also that the base Fiat is actually pretty well equipped; it's not like other cars where the base model is something that no one would ever drive.

i clearly admit that i think i am in the minority. i think i will rent one and see what it's like behind the wheel 

[Onslaught]

Can someone tell me how this car is cute? It's small, and that makes cars "cute." But other then that I see nothing at all about it that makes it stand out more then the other little cheap ass cars out today.

[Galaxy]

I would agree that in some parts the 500 is a bit cheap, especially if you start pushing, and turning dials, and buttons, however it does, imo, radiate a fun, happy atmosphere. Also the optional leather package is supplied by the same company that supplies Ferrari.

[Atomic]

Can someone tell me how this car is cute? It's small, and that makes cars "cute." But other then that I see nothing at all about it that makes it stand out more then the other little cheap ass cars out today.

round puppy eye headlights 

[Soup DeVille]

Can someone tell me how this car is cute? It's small, and that makes cars "cute." But other then that I see nothing at all about it that makes it stand out more then the other little cheap ass cars out today.

I reminds me of a cross betwen a mid '60s Sunbeam Toaster and a Swingline stapler of the same era.

[2o6]

The Mini is a good car. Not so sure about the 500.

So, one came into your body shop and you automatically hate it without having driven it or even read any reviews?


Not to sound like ChrisV, but that's a stupid reason to put down a car.

[Onslaught]

So, one came into your body shop and you automatically hate it without having driven it or even read any reviews?


Not to sound like ChrisV, but that's a stupid reason to put down a car.

I know the Mini is a good car. I've got a friend with one and it's a damn blast to drive. And while going around in a parking lot can't tell me much about the 500 most reviews I've ever seen make the Mini sound better.
And I didn't say the 500 wasn't good. I said time will tell. I don't care what a review of the car says, it will take time before I accept that a Fiat is a good, reliable car. You don't sell the shit they did here and get a clean
bill of health from me.

[2o6]

Whatever.

[Onslaught]

I think the Ford looks better, cost less and is probably a better built car too. I'd take the Ford over the 500.

[SVT666]

[/thread]

[Soup DeVille]

[cawimmer430]

1. Ford has H&H. Hell, I'd argue that Mazda has H&H with all the racing they've done over the years. Oh, and Fiat has H&H in the US. And it's not good H&H too.
2. Lifestyle car? Flair? I don't see it.

I must say that the 500 is one of the most overrated cars I've ever seen. I never saw what people loved about it. I don't even think it looks that great. It's not ugly, but it's not great looking.
I see NOTHING upscale about it. It's just as cheap looking as the Ford or the Mazda, cost more and it's interior feels like it could fall off if you sneeze too hard. I'd argue that the Mazda and Ford
are put together better too from what I've seen.

I don't hate the 500. But I don't get the love at all. And I waited to blast it until I saw one in person. I don't get it.

I don't think you're the target market for this car. I don't think most Americans have developed a taste for stylish economy cars yet. Here in Europe stylish economy cars are a lifestyle product. The Fiat 500 is essentially a nicely dressed-up economy car designed to win over those who want something small and efficient, yet also stylish. It succeeds in that regard.

[cawimmer430]

Wimmer one thing you have to keep in mind is that one reason that under the top 10 best selling cars in Germany you routinely find vehicles like the E/C class, 5er, 3e,r A4, A6 etc is because of our tax system. At ? 52,552 you pay 42% taxes (with tax credits, and write-offs you can easily get it to ~ 30% or lower but that is another topic). If your company gives you a ? 50,000 Mercedes E class to use privately  1% of MSRP is taxed, and your company simply writes the car off anyways. I believe Germany is relatively unique in this regard, and that is the reason why a majority of Germans use company cars. This makes up almost 60% of our car market. With luxury cars the ratio is much higher. In July 2011 89.4% of A6s, 90.3% of 5ers, and 77.9% of E classes were sold as company cars.

Now when Germans buy cars privately then bang for the buck becomes more important. This might be a shock but the cars Germans buy most privately are the likes of Toyota Yaris, and Fiat Punto. 

http://www.kba.de/cln_033/nn_330190/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/MonatlicheNeuzulassungen/201107GV1monatlich/201107__n__top50__teil1__tabelle.html

I'm aware of that but I never knew the figure was that high. 

[Onslaught]

I don't think you're the target market for this car. I don't think most Americans have developed a taste for stylish economy cars yet. Here in Europe stylish economy cars are a lifestyle product. The Fiat 500 is essentially a nicely dressed-up economy car designed to win over those who want something small and efficient, yet also stylish. It succeeds in that regard.

I know what it is. And I don't have a problem with that kind of car. I however don't see the "stylish" part of it. I looks better then some of the small cars we have here but not by much. And I don't see what makes this car look so good to people inside or out.
It's not ugly to me, but it's way overrated.

And you're correct that I'm not the target market for these cars. I don't live in a huge city with no room to park and I've got money to buy gas.

[cawimmer430]

It's not ugly to me, but it's way overrated.

I think the American media might be "overhyping" it a bit. You know, the whole "first Fiat in the US since they pulled out in the 1980s thing" and so forth. It's a "big" occasion in that sense.

I like the Fiat 500 from a styling point of view. It reminds me of the original Fiat 500 from the 50s, a car with cult status here. But I'd never buy one. I require a bit more space for my camera lighting equipment etc. and a Fiat 500 just isn't the car for that. Even if I didn't have to haul my stuff around, a Fiat 500 just isn't the car for me. I'd be looking at something from Renault or Citroen if I wanted an efficient small car with lots of interior space.

[Byteme]

I think the American media might be "overhyping" it a bit. You know, the whole "first Fiat in the US since they pulled out in the 1980s thing" and so forth. It's a "big" occasion in that sense.

I like the Fiat 500 from a styling point of view. It reminds me of the original Fiat 500 from the 50s, a car with cult status here. But I'd never buy one. I require a bit more space for my camera lighting equipment etc. and a Fiat 500 just isn't the car for that. Even if I didn't have to haul my stuff around, a Fiat 500 just isn't the car for me. I'd be looking at something from Renault or Citroen if I wanted an efficient small car with lots of interior space.

Now put yourself in the US, where gas is cheap compared to Europe, the travel distances are an order of magnitude greater and people (for better or worse) are fond of larger vehicles...much larger vehicles.   You said it yourself "I'd be looking at something from Renault or Citroen if I wanted an efficient small car with lots of interior space".  Renault and Citroen aren't sold here, so substitute Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Honda, Toyota... for those brands.
"

[ifcar]

It sounds like your objection is to the practicality of any two-door car versus a four-door alternative.