FWD mini Mercedes SLK in the works

[cawimmer430]

Maybe, maybe not.  Features drive up the price. 

And as for the features, the Eos and other CCs all have two things it seems the SLA won't--rear seats. 

Rear seats in such cars are completely useless unless you want the International Human Rights Group paying you a visit.

[cawimmer430]

You're missing the point.

The SLA won't sell for the same reasons as the SLK, Z4, et al. It's a mistake to compare it to that class.

Entry-level cars exist to lure new customers among other reasons.

I think the new SLK and Z4 etc. have become pretty big cars. When I see an SLK/Z4 parked on our tiny parking spots here I realize how much they've grown in size. It kind of makes sense to offer a smaller version of these cars in that regard, not only because of parking issues but also to attract new customers.

[Raza]

Rear seats in such cars are completely useless unless you want the International Human Rights Group paying you a visit.

Eos rear seats are easily usable by adults for short trips. 

[cawimmer430]

Eos rear seats are easily usable by adults for short trips. 

I'm sure they are, but not for tall adults like me (6'4"). Besides, the folks who currently drive SLKs, Z4s etc. generally have a more spacious car in their garage as well. The same will most likely be true for SLA customers as well.

[Vinsanity]

Dare I ask why anyone would buy this over a Miata/MX-5?

[Raza]

Dare I ask why anyone would buy this over a Miata/MX-5?

Rhymes with "vaj".

[Eye of the Tiger]

Rhymes with "vaj".

Sage?

[Hachee]

To me, it's not so much the FWD that's a problem, it's the downscale nature of the lower end offerings coming from MB and BMW.  As the model ranges have grown in size, I get why there's a need for models below the C Class and 3-Series.  The B and the 1 make perfect sense to me.  But fuck it, they don't need to be FWD.  I don't care what you say, it is and will further dilute these brands.  The B looks horrible (on the outside), and this small, FWD roadster seems unecessary to me.  Same goes for upcoming sub 1-Series and small roadster BMWs.  These companies should have separate lines for models like these.  I get the need/desire for really small but luxurious city cars for Europe, but this seems more of a niche to me.  These cars should be special and expensive, and shouldn't compete with offerings from Peugoet or VW.  Audi, IMO, by virtue of its more humble roots, somehow gets a little more slack here. 

It's all about sustaining growth (volume, revenue and profits) for these companies in order to satisfy shareholders and keep the stock price as high as possible.  That is absolutely the ultimate goal, regardless of the long term impact.  Maybe some new company will somehow emerge and provide the exclusivity and driving experience of BMW of MB of years ago at a comparable price. 

Rambling rant over.

[Onslaught]

Dare I ask why anyone would buy this over a Miata/MX-5?

Snob appeal.
H&H - not that people in the US care about that.
Someone wants a Mercedes but can't afford a real one.
Some people don't know that the Miata is a better car. Yea, it's not even out and I'll go on a call it. The MX-5 is better.

[cawimmer430]

These cars should be special and expensive, and shouldn't compete with offerings from Peugoet or VW.  Audi, IMO, by virtue of its more humble roots, somehow gets a little more slack here. 

The thing is that Volkswagen and Peugeot (and Skoda, Citroen etc.) have all stepped up the game with their stylish lifestyle cars. And as is the case with the B-Class, it'll come in different trims. there's an entry-level trim, a mid-luxury trim and a high-end trim. The entry-level and mid-luxury trims will most likely be aimed at the typical Peugeot etc. client while the high-end trim is aimed at traditional MB customers.

It was less so in the past, but now you have a lot of mainstream and luxury shoppers cross shopping in different niches. The Peugeot RCZ and Volkswagen Scirocco for example are legitimate competitors to the Audi TT or BMW 1-Series Coupe (and the FWD Peugeot RCZ even beat the RWD BMW 1er in a Grip Magazine track test - absolutely destroyed the BMW in handling and track performance) and are even cross shopped.

[sportyaccordy]

So a bit of it too is that MB has stepped "down" their game as well to cash in on volume

Spreading that H&H? as thin as possible

Next they will make a roadster off the A-Class for whoever can't afford this thing but wants to look rich

Lol. The whole thing is very confusing.

How do these cars compare to the original 190E or even the W201?

[cawimmer430]

How do these cars compare to the original 190E or even the W201?

The 190E is the W201.

And at the time it was a huge risk for Mercedes because of perceived image loss. Mercedes' had not made a small car up to that point after the 130H and 150H of the 1930s. People weren't used to seeing a small "Baby Benz" so again, the 190 was a huge risk.

And it was a smashing success. It offered Mercedes traits in a smaller more compact and efficient package.

These new cars are essentially just repeating that process.

[Hachee]

The thing is that Volkswagen and Peugeot (and Skoda, Citroen etc.) have all stepped up the game with their stylish lifestyle cars. And as is the case with the B-Class, it'll come in different trims. there's an entry-level trim, a mid-luxury trim and a high-end trim. The entry-level and mid-luxury trims will most likely be aimed at the typical Peugeot etc. client while the high-end trim is aimed at traditional MB customers.



It was less so in the past, but now you have a lot of mainstream and luxury shoppers cross shopping in different niches. The Peugeot RCZ and Volkswagen Scirocco for example are legitimate competitors to the Audi TT or BMW 1-Series Coupe (and the FWD Peugeot RCZ even beat the RWD BMW 1er in a Grip Magazine track test - absolutely destroyed the BMW in handling and track performance) and are even cross shopped.

I get that the market is different now (and ever-changing).  There has always been overlap in the "low end" of Mercedes and the "high end" of Peugoet, etc.  And now every mainstream maker offers almost everything you can get from a luxury maker, so that complicates it.  But the sheer proliferation of models from Mercedes, BMW and Audi just serves to dilute the exclusivity that, IMO, was once a key component of the ownership experience.  And if more and more people are cross-shopping Mercedes and Peugoet (for example), then that's telling you that they realize they can get the same thing (or close to it) from Peugoet, and that it's just not special any more to own a Mercedes.  And I think that's the real problem.

And I get what you're saying about the W201.  At the time, it seemed shocking, but was obviously widely accepted.  But BMW, with it's 3 Series, had shown there was a market for upscale, "small" cars.  But where does it end, and is there anything that truly distinguishes the Mercedes offerings?  I think my biggest problem is the loss of exclusivity (in terms of what I think makes MB and BMW worth a bit more), and the simple fact that I just think most new MB just look so fucking bad!
But I guess the ever-expanding sales numbers will just keep proving me wrong. 

[Byteme]

It is supposed to be an entry-level car slotted underneath the SLK. And since it is based on the new B-Class platform it'll naturally be FWD. Maybe an AWD version will come along. Who knows.

Clearly this car isn't aimed at the hardcore purists who insist that everything they touch needs to be RWD. If 80% of the people who bought a BMW 1-Series thought it was FWD...

Good luck fitting in that little tin can.

[Byteme]

The 190E is the W201.

And at the time it was a huge risk for Mercedes because of perceived image loss. Mercedes' had not made a small car up to that point after the 130H and 150H of the 1930s. People weren't used to seeing a small "Baby Benz" so again, the 190 was a huge risk.

And it was a smashing success. It offered Mercedes traits in a smaller more compact and efficient package.

These new cars are essentially just repeating that process.

No, the Mercedes 190 C and D were considered small cars. 

[Byteme]

Dare I ask why anyone would buy this over a Miata/MX-5?

Three pointed star.
Driveway jewelry.
Snob appeal.
"Hey, look at poor little rich me".
More money than brains.

Need I go on?

[cawimmer430]

Three pointed star.
Driveway jewelry.
Snob appeal.
"Hey, look at poor little rich me".
More money than brains.

Need I go on?

Sounds like the reasons why people buy Jaguar E-Types.  

Come on, you don't need a Jaguar E-Type when a Geo Metro Convertible does everything it does except for much less money and maybe not as fast or as stylish...

[cawimmer430]

I get that the market is different now (and ever-changing).  There has always been overlap in the "low end" of Mercedes and the "high end" of Peugoet, etc.  And now every mainstream maker offers almost everything you can get from a luxury maker, so that complicates it.  But the sheer proliferation of models from Mercedes, BMW and Audi just serves to dilute the exclusivity that, IMO, was once a key component of the ownership experience.  And if more and more people are cross-shopping Mercedes and Peugoet (for example), then that's telling you that they realize they can get the same thing (or close to it) from Peugoet, and that it's just not special any more to own a Mercedes.  And I think that's the real problem.

I don't think it is such a big issue in Europe where manufacturers have always produced cars for the common man and the elite under one brand name. Citroen, Fiat, Opel, Renault, Peugeot, Lancia, Talbot/Simca, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen and even Audi all fit that scheme.

Let's take Citroen for example - they had the simple and cheap 2CV for the masses while at the same time they had the luxurious (it certainly was at the time) DS and later CX and SM models. The CX was also offered in different trims ranging from mainstream to premium. The DS and SM were competitors to Mercedes' products of the day.

Opel - they offered the economical Kadett models for the masses, then inbetween cars like the Commodore while at the same time they had luxury cars with American V8s like the Diplomat, Kapit?n and Admiral. At during the '50s to '70s Opel was actually a Mercedes-Benz competitor. Only in the late 1970s did they start dumping the fullsize luxury cars focusing instead on poorly made mainstream cars with crap designs.

Even Volkswagen - we all know about the affordable Beetle, Golf but Volkswagen also produced a car called the Volkswagen K70. It was designed by the same man who designed the famous NSU Ro80 - Claus Luthe. The K70 was a premium car for Volkswagen and the results show it: it sold poorly.

Fiat - the luxury cars they produced were many: The Fiat Dino GT with a Ferrari V6 engine, the Fiat 130 Coupe and 130 Sedan - these were all luxury. At the same time you could still buy a Fiat 850 mini car and the 124/125 models - which were mass market cheap mainstream cars.

I could go on but I think you get the point. 

I think this might be a bit hard to understand for Americans who just aren't used to that. There was never a small Cadillac until the Cimarron arrived and Cadillac certainly never needed to worry about small and fuel-efficient cars at the time since those cars could be offered by Buick or Oldsmobile or perhaps Chevrolet and Pontiac. Things were different in Europe where manufacturers had always, even before World War II, sold economy and luxury cars under the same brand name.

[Onslaught]

Sounds like the reasons why people buy Jaguar E-Types.  

Come on, you don't need a Jaguar E-Type when a Geo Metro Convertible does everything it does except for much less money and maybe not as fast or as stylish...

A Geo metro isn't near as good a car as the E-Type and it's ugly. The E-Type is anything but ugly.
On the other hand a Miata will do everything this Benz will do and probably better. And it will cost less. And if the Benz looks anything like that picture at all the Miata will look better too.

[cawimmer430]

A Geo metro isn't near as good a car as the E-Type and it's ugly. The E-Type is anything but ugly.
On the other hand a Miata will do everything this Benz will do and probably better. And it will cost less. And if the Benz looks anything like that picture at all the Miata will look better too.

The SLA pictured here is the concept car from awhile back.

This upcoming car will most likely have a mix of current SLK (SL) and SLS styling traits.

[Onslaught]

The SLA pictured here is the concept car from awhile back.

This upcoming car will most likely have a mix of current SLK (SL) and SLS styling traits.

And that's a good thing? I'm not a huge fan of the current SLK.

Still, the main reason someone in the US would get this little FWD joke is because of snob appeal.

[cawimmer430]

Still, the main reason someone in the US would get this little FWD joke is because of snob appeal.

So these luxury cars were jokes?

[Onslaught]

So these luxury cars were jokes?

The top one is to me.

But this won't be a luxury car. You can't have a cheap luxury car. You shouldn't make a cheap MB. The only reason someone would buy this over a real Benz is because they don't have the  money. So they shouldn't have a Benz at all.

And FWD sucks in a  roadster.

[cawimmer430]

The top one is to me.

But this won't be a luxury car. You can't have a cheap luxury car. You shouldn't make a cheap MB. The only reason someone would buy this over a real Benz is because they don't have the  money. So they shouldn't have a Benz at all.

The luxury market is changing. Plus what car does Mercedes have in the US to attract younger buyers that would otherwise go elsewhere? The C-Class and its Coupe version are probably out of reach for most people. This car makes sense. A fun, small and compact yet luxurious entry-level roadster from a premium brand. Makes sense to me.

And FWD sucks in a  roadster.

By all accounts the last Lotus Elan drove pretty well and that car was FWD.

[Onslaught]

The luxury market is changing. Plus what car does Mercedes have in the US to attract younger buyers that would otherwise go elsewhere? The C-Class and its Coupe version are probably out of reach for most people. This car makes sense. A fun, small and compact yet luxurious entry-level roadster from a premium brand. Makes sense to me.



By all accounts the last Lotus Elan drove pretty well and that car was FWD.

Young people without money shouldn't buy a MB. They can't afford them and they can't pay for the upkeep on one or the maintenance while it's under warranty. Correct me if I'm wrong but brands like BMW and MB like for you to bring the cars into their dealers while under warranty for oil changes and stuff like that? MB should never be about young people without money. It's about old people with money.

I hate the Lotus Elan. There, I said it.

[2o6]

Wimmer, you are barking up the wrong tree.



But in other news, I think a small FWD, smaller SLK is a terrible idea. That's going to be like A Mercedes version of this:



Which is a horrible idea.

[Vinsanity]

hmm. Renault Wind might make a neat Nissan NX/Pulsar...

[Vinsanity]

...but, yeah. If Mercedes wants to be held to a higher standard to consumers (H&H and shit), then they shouldn't build cars with the intent of appealing to a less affluent demographic. The purpose of being an aspirational brand is defeated if people don't have to aspire very hard to buy your product.

[Laconian]

...but, yeah. If Mercedes wants to be held to a higher standard to consumers (H&H and shit), then they shouldn't build cars with the intent of appealing to a less affluent demographic. The purpose of being an aspirational brand is defeated if people don't have to aspire very hard to buy your product.

I agree with this. Taken to an extreme, imagine if Rolls Royce made a competitor to the 3-series that was priced around the same range.

[2o6]

I agree with this. Taken to an extreme, imagine if Rolls Royce made a competitor to the 3-series that was priced around the same range.

I would buy it.