Edmunds: 2012 BMW M5 First Drive

[MrH]

Tomorrow I shall drive my car at 1500 rpms the whole time just to spite Cougs.

That's damn near impossible.  Our cars are geared so much shorter than the new M5.

[Cookie Monster]

That's damn near impossible.  Our cars are geared so much shorter than the new M5.

I just need to putter down a 25 mph road to get to Safeway. It's doable.

Well at least half of the trip is, since it's downhill. I don't think I'll be able to get back up at 1,500 rpm.

[SVT_Power]

WTF did cougs just say? Someone revoke that man's engineering degree...

[MrH]

I just need to putter down a 25 mph road to get to Safeway. It's doable.

Well at least half of the trip is, since it's downhill. I don't think I'll be able to get back up at 1,500 rpm.

1,500 rpm in 6th gear is 30 mph for my car.

[Cookie Monster]

1,500 rpm in 6th gear is 30 mph for my car.

Yep, I'll be chugging in 5th the whole way there.

I wonder how bad the MPG's would be at that low of an RPM range.

[SVT666]

I nominate Cougs for "The most creative excuse for getting out of an argument he obviously lost" award.

[giant_mtb]

I feel pretty lousy at the moment (vertigo seizure) so The Rock (upon which you all will brake yourselves) will return later - maybe tonight after a rest but likely tomorrow - to commence said brakage (pun intended, BTW).

Brakage, eh?

[GoCougs]

Wow, a bit of rest and a shower and I feel better - this one was a minor one. I was to go on a group mountain biking ride tonight and this would have been a disaster ~10 miles out in the middle of nowhere in the dark. Still not 100% but WAY better - breathing a sigh of relief. Thanks for being there for me 'SPINners. Using what I could find about the DCT and an online speed/rpm calculator:

Gear
Speed in gear at 1,500 rpm
Speed in gear at 2,500 rpm

1st
8 mph 1,500 rpm
13 mph 2,500 rpm

2nd
13 mph 1,500 rpm
21 mph 2,500 rpm

3nd
18 mph 1,500 rpm
30 mph 2,500 rpm

4th
23 mph 1,500 rpm
38 mph 2,500 rpm

5th
28 mph 1,500 rpm
46 mph 2,500 rpm

6th
32 mph 1,500 rpm
53 mph 2,500 rpm

7th
38 mph 1,500 rpm
64 mph 2,500 rpm

Drive an '12 M5 like a Regular Person and it will virtually never see 1,500 rpm save at idle. Look how sedate (in terms of mph) the driving experience at a max of 2,500 rpm in each gear. C'mon guys. Having such a wide power band is mostly useless in this car and most cars; too many gears, too good transmissions.

[giant_mtb]

5th gear, 28MPH, 1500RPM.

Sounds perfect for puttsing around in 25MPH zones.

[sportyaccordy]

Wow, a bit of rest and a shower and I feel better - this one was a minor one. I was to go on a group mountain biking ride tonight and this would have been a disaster ~10 miles out in the middle of nowhere in the dark. Still not 100% but WAY better - breathing a sigh of relief. Thanks for being there for me 'SPINners. Using what I could find about the DCT and an online speed/rpm calculator:

Gear
Speed in gear at 1,500 rpm
Speed in gear at 2,500 rpm

1st
8 mph 1,500 rpm
13 mph 2,500 rpm

2nd
13 mph 1,500 rpm
21 mph 2,500 rpm

3nd
18 mph 1,500 rpm
30 mph 2,500 rpm

4th
23 mph 1,500 rpm
38 mph 2,500 rpm

5th
28 mph 1,500 rpm
46 mph 2,500 rpm

6th
32 mph 1,500 rpm
53 mph 2,500 rpm

7th
38 mph 1,500 rpm
64 mph 2,500 rpm

Drive an '12 M5 like a Regular Person and it will virtually never see 1,500 rpm save at idle. Look how sedate (in terms of mph) the driving experience at a max of 2,500 rpm in each gear. C'mon guys. Having such a wide power band is mostly useless in this car and most cars; too many gears, too good transmissions.

Whos to say this will hit every gear, or even start in 1st w/low throttle input? Especially with 500lbft of torque at 1500rpm?

And what about the video I just posted?

You dug so deep the walls collapsed.

[omicron]

Wow, a bit of rest and a shower and I feel better - this one was a minor one. I was to go on a group mountain biking ride tonight and this would have been a disaster ~10 miles out in the middle of nowhere in the dark. Still not 100% but WAY better - breathing a sigh of relief. Thanks for being there for me 'SPINners. Using what I could find about the DCT and an online speed/rpm calculator:

Gear
Speed in gear at 1,500 rpm
Speed in gear at 2,500 rpm

1st
8 mph 1,500 rpm
13 mph 2,500 rpm

2nd
13 mph 1,500 rpm
21 mph 2,500 rpm

3nd
18 mph 1,500 rpm
30 mph 2,500 rpm

4th
23 mph 1,500 rpm
38 mph 2,500 rpm

5th
28 mph 1,500 rpm
46 mph 2,500 rpm

6th
32 mph 1,500 rpm
53 mph 2,500 rpm

7th
38 mph 1,500 rpm
64 mph 2,500 rpm

Drive an '12 M5 like a Regular Person and it will virtually never see 1,500 rpm save at idle. Look how sedate (in terms of mph) the driving experience at a max of 2,500 rpm in each gear. C'mon guys. Having such a wide power band is mostly useless in this car and most cars; too many gears, too good transmissions.

What fizzle.

Observation on test:

At 100km/h (62mph), the M5 is pulling just 1550rpm and that only lifts to 2000 at 130 (80mph)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/reviews/2011/prestige-and-luxury/bmw/m5/bmw-m5-first-drive-26996

Assuming the Edmunds specifications are correct, that gives:

1st = 4.806, 2nd = 2.593, 3rd = 1.701, 4th = 1.277, 5th = 1.000, 6th = 0.844, 7th = 0.671
Final drive    = 3.150
295/35R19 rear tyres
7200 rpm redline

Into a speed/RPM calculator:

1st
7.7 mph @ 1500 rpm
12.9 mph @ 2500 rpm

2nd
14.3 mph @ 1500 rpm
23.8 mph @ 2500 rpm

3rd
21.8 mph @ 1500 rpm
36.3 mph @ 2500 rpm

4th
29 mph @ 1500 rpm
48.4 mph @ 2500 rpm

5th
37.1 mph @ 1500 rpm
61.8 mph @ 2500 rpm

6th
43.9 mph @ 1500 rpm
73.2 mph @ 2500 rpm

7th
55.3 mph @ 1500 rpm
92.1 mph @ 2500 rpm

http://www.car-videos.net/tools/speedrpm.asp?Car=Select&Num1=295&Num2=35&Num3=19&AxleRatio=3.15&Ratio1=4.806&Ratio2=2.593&Ratio3=1.701&Ratio4=1.277&Ratio5=1&Ratio6=0.844&Ratio7=0.671&Redline=7200&Increment=500&B1=Recalculate

Probably slightly conservative figures, too, given the calculator I used applies a factor of 0.965 to the results 'to account for the reduced tire diameter caused by...barometric pressure and altitude....temperature, humidity, car weight, car weight distribution, weight shifting caused by acceleration, and rotational speed'.

Seems to me that these calculated figures are much closer to the speeds/RPMs noted in the CarPoint test, and if you remove the 0.965 factor applied to the calculated data and assume a slightly optimistic speedometer (i.e. an indicated 62 mph is probably only 58-60 mph in reality), the observations are even closer to the calculations.

So yes, a person driving a '12 M5 normally is likely to see 1500 rpm, given that it's essentially the engine speed in 7th at which the Australian state freeway limit of 100km/h is reached, and I'm sure in many other US states, too.

[GoCougs]

Oh, good grief. Haven't you turkeys realized that yet - those who attack acknowledge loss? C'mon. Let's work on this Intrentry.

[omicron]

[sportyaccordy]

Cougs you presented a theory and people proved it false (extensively). That your response is essentially an ad hominem speaks volumes. M5 will def hover around 1500 RPM in cruise mode, it wouldn't make sense for it not to

For Christ's sake, at 1500 RPM this thing will be making close to 150HP (at full throttle). Do you think this thing needs even half of that to loaf around at 30 MPH?

[GoCougs]

Seems like a lot of guess work on the gear ratios there Omi. I referenced fanboy forums that listed M5 gear ratios - so true that source also isn't from BMW either.

Nonetheless the assertion stands unchallenged - if you're driving an M5 at 1,500 rpm for any length of time and are reticent to downshift or let the tranny downshift you're doing it catastrophically wrong. The broad power band is a byproduct not a design and thus mostly useless in a car like this owing to short gearing, short gear spacing, and ultra responsive tranny.

[Raza]

First of all, I'm right.  I'm right because I say I'm right.  Are you right?  No, I'm right. 

(For the record, I don't know what the fuck any of you are talking about.  As an outsider, though, this is a funny conversation.)

[omicron]

Seems like a lot of guess work on the gear ratios there Omi. I referenced fanboy forums that listed M5 gear ratios - so true that source also isn't from BMW either.

Nonetheless the assertion stands unchallenged - if you're driving an M5 at 1,500 rpm for any length of time and are reticent to downshift or let the tranny downshift you're doing it catastrophically wrong. The broad power band is a byproduct not a design and thus mostly useless in a car like this owing to short gearing, short gear spacing, and ultra responsive tranny.

Guesswork? I just took them straight from the original article.

[GoCougs]

First of all, I'm right.  I'm right because I say I'm right.  Are you right?  No, I'm right. 

(For the record, I don't know what the fuck any of you are talking about.  As an outsider, though, this is a funny conversation.)

People hate to be challenged on their realities. The first response is often a knee-jerk personal attack owing to the shaking of paradigms.

[Tave]

Uh, wouldn't the fact that the M5 rarely runs below 1500 RPM mean that it would always be in the meat of its powerband? How is that a bad thing?

[omicron]

Because of my kindness, please note:

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub/p/pcgl/pressDetail.html?outputChannelId=6&id=T0121654EN&left_menu_item=node__2249

Scroll down to 'Documents for downloading', select 'The new BMW M5', and note on page 45 of the press kit the following:

[GoCougs]

Uh, wouldn't the fact that the M5 rarely runs below 1500 RPM mean that it would always be in the meat of its powerband? How is that a bad thing?

Uh, no one has said "bad" about anything. The point being it's interesting but mostly useless.

[Raza]

People hate to be challenged on their realities. The first response is often a knee-jerk personal attack owing to the shaking of paradigms.

On the outside, it looks like they blew your theory apart with hard facts though.  Granted, I'm not an engineer, but they are. 

[GoCougs]

Also don't forget turbo lag and the lower the RPM the worse it is...

[GoCougs]

On the outside, it looks like they blew your theory apart with hard facts though.  Granted, I'm not an engineer, but they are. 

They failed absolutely miserably especially with context and experience (not including Omi) in conjunction with coming perilously close to my all-time car "enthusiast" uber fail that is torque vs. hp.

At least Omi had some facts and calcs but IMO doesn't quite get the context or the practicalities (turbo lag) of the assertion of Doing it Wrong: having 500 lb-ft at 1,500 rpm in this car is essentially useless.

[Galaxy]

They failed absolutely miserably especially with context and experience (not including Omi) in conjunction with coming perilously close to my all-time car "enthusiast" uber fail that is torque vs. hp.

At least Omi had some facts and calcs but IMO doesn't quite get the context or the practicalities (turbo lag) of the assertion of Doing it Wrong: having 500 lb-ft at 1,500 rpm in this car is essentially useless.

The turbo lag is irrelevant if you are cruising at a constant speed.

[SVT32V]

The turbo lag is irrelevant if you are cruising at a constant speed.

Plus the whole design is made to eliminate turbo lag with the turbos in the valley of the engine's V, and airflow opposite found in the std V engines. The intake ports are on the outside and exhaust flows into the V, the turbos will spool up fast, very little volume between the turbos and exhaust ports. Even the firing order is changed to allow for constant exhaust pulses as opposed to the normal lumpy V8. Plus turbo lag is never so bad with a big engine making reasonable torque to begin with vs small engines that are impotent without boost.

Overall, the low end torque will be used at every stop light when accelerating from a stop, unless one is going to launch at 3000 rpms at all times.

[sportyaccordy]

I've never seen Cougs so consistently wrong, Cougs what the hell is going on over there

[GoCougs]

The turbo lag is irrelevant if you are cruising at a constant speed.

And when accelerating? It's gonna have lag.

[sportyaccordy]

And when accelerating? It's gonna have lag.

Not if the trans downshifts, as it has in every automatic equipped car... ever... upon enough application of throttle

Esp in a car w/7 speeds programmed to maximize fuel efficiency

Are you high?

[GoCougs]

Not if the trans downshifts, as it has in every automatic equipped car... ever... upon enough application of throttle

Esp in a car w/7 speeds programmed to maximize fuel efficiency

Are you high?

Ha, ha. Gotcha.