Subaru BRZ concept

[Tave]

Better? To you, but not to every mag comparison or sales.

As I recall, the MR-2 lost most comparisons due to "practicality" or a similar reason. I remember a lot of mags saying the MR-2 was the better driving car.

[sportyaccordy]

My buddy's dad who bought an S2000 upgraded from an MR-S

They really dropped the ball with that one. It was the beginning of the end

[Tave]

Some people prefer the effort.  I know I do.  Things are more enjoyable when you have to work for them, and for me, driving is no different.  Sure, there are things in my car that are comforts and conveniences, but the core of it isn't. 

Then you should of gotten the 2.5, you would have had to work harder to move the car and it would have therefore been more enjoyable.

[sportyaccordy]

Then you should of gotten the 2.5, you would have had to work harder to move the car and it would have therefore been more enjoyable.

Oh come now don't be coy.

[2o6]

Tave is pretty literal.

[Payman]

Tave is pretty literal.

And cliche. Don't forget cliche.

[hotrodalex]

You guys can keep your 200 hp tin cans. I'll take at least 300 hp, thanks. You can still have a good handling car with more power. But maybe I'm just weird and like quicker acceleration...

[S204STi]

The Subaru version isn't the point.  This is all about Toyota flexing its power over Subaru and basically telling them to develop a sporty small car for them.  Basically Subaru is Toyota's bitch in this project, because they are Toyota's bitch now.

It is all about the Toyota version, which will continue the stepwise return of Toyota to the sporty market.  Most likely Toyota is using this car to gauge how successful a Toyota badged performance car is (Scion badged in the states), without much personal risk to themselves because they have made Subaru develop and build the car for them.

Most likely the Subaru version is an after thought, a consolation prize scrap thrown to Subaru so they aren't completely left out.  Why else were all the full concepts Toyota badged until now, and the vast majority of the marketing/exposure given to the FT-86/FR-S?  The Subaru version didn't even have a name until recently. Now we see that the BRZ basically shares all the same body panels except less attractive, and without any extra power.

The Scion FR-S/FT-86 will likely sell well and the BRZ will barely sell at all, and that's exactly how Toyota planned it.

[S204STi]

You guys can keep your 200 hp tin cans. I'll take at least 300 hp, thanks. You can still have a good handling car with more power. But maybe I'm just weird and like quicker acceleration...

Yeah, not getting the obsession with underpowered cars, but whatever.  Whatever sinks your submarine.

[Rupert]

The MG was underpowered, kind of. Modern cars are not underpowered.

[S204STi]

The MG was underpowered, kind of. Modern cars are not underpowered.

Most cars are adequate or better, sure.  But when the bar is already set high, why aim lower?

[Rupert]

Because the bar is set too high.

[Rupert]

And, like I said, more power = more money.

[2o6]

You guys are comparing it to cars like the mustang , whic have 100 more HP and are at least 1000 lbs heavier.

[S204STi]

If this thing is running WRX money maybe it should have WRX power then?

[Rupert]

You guys are comparing it to cars like the mustang , whic have 100 more HP and are at least 1000 lbs heavier.

Good point. Power/weight is the important metric here (and gearing, and power curve, blah blah), not just power.

[2o6]

I think the price needs to be 22k.

[Rupert]

If this thing is running WRX money maybe it should have WRX power then?

I'm really just arguing against the everything must have 400 bhp thing, not so much this particular car, since we really don't know a thing about it for sure.

[S204STi]

Yeah, I'm ok with the overall concept that not everything has to have a bizzillion hp to be fun.  My car only makes ~270hp , but is still plenty quick enough to get me into trouble.  Also weighs about 600lbs more, and with a talented driver would still bang off a mid-14 1/4mi.  I guess I'm just with the camp that's like, "WTF Subaru, no turbo?"  Because with one this could have been the best thing to happen to turbo enthusiasts in a long time.  The supreme modability of a turbocharged Subaru engine with the purity of a light, RWD chassis would be simply epic.  Instead with get a neutered, gutless wonder.

That said, can't wait to see Perrin swap in an EJ257 with their rotated Garrett setup and proceed to lay waste to tires.  Too bad it takes the aftermarket to get stuff right.

[2o6]

But this is a BASE model. A basic Impreza has no turbo and like 150hp.


And 270 HP is a lot.

[SVT666]

My car is 2700 lbs and has 170 hp.  That is at least 50 horses short.  Yes it can do ridiculously stupid speeds through corners that most cars wouldn't be able to, but a Toyota Sienna can spank my car in a drag race.  That's not cool.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

You guys can keep your 200 hp tin cans. I'll take at least 300 hp, thanks. You can still have a good handling car with more power. But maybe I'm just weird and like quicker acceleration...

+1

[sportyaccordy]

Yeah, I'm ok with the overall concept that not everything has to have a bizzillion hp to be fun.  My car only makes ~270hp , but is still plenty quick enough to get me into trouble.  Also weighs about 600lbs more, and with a talented driver would still bang off a mid-14 1/4mi.  I guess I'm just with the camp that's like, "WTF Subaru, no turbo?"  Because with one this could have been the best thing to happen to turbo enthusiasts in a long time.  The supreme modability of a turbocharged Subaru engine with the purity of a light, RWD chassis would be simply epic.  Instead with get a neutered, gutless wonder.

That said, can't wait to see Perrin swap in an EJ257 with their rotated Garrett setup and proceed to lay waste to tires.  Too bad it takes the aftermarket to get stuff right.

Presumption much? How about we all just wait and see what official reviews say? Preliminary first drives have all been very positive w/no complaints about the engine. Some of the most fun cars I've ever driven have had similar power + weight to this, and some of the greatest drivers' cars of all time (ummm... E30 M3 anyone? Integra Type R?) have been similar in spec. This car is very old school in spec and that is a good thing. If you want a heavy turbocharged blunt go fast tool keep the WRX, it is very good at what it does. This is for people who want something else. And in any case I'm sure they will do a turbo version w/a 7:1 compression ratio and no response below 3500 RPM for people who want to drag race & impress the Super Street crowd, as well as to get sales differentiating it from the Toyota version. Since we're jumping to conclusions...

[Onslaught]

My car is 2700 lbs and has 170 hp.  That is at least 50 horses short.  Yes it can do ridiculously stupid speeds through corners that most cars wouldn't be able to, but a Toyota Sienna can spank my car in a drag race.  That's not cool.

But that's ok. Because drag racing is for rednecks. It's kind of the masturbation of motor sports. Do it as fast and hard as you can to get to the end in a hurry.  


Anyway, I like cars with and without mad power. If I was at a track and could use the power I'd want 300+. But because I spend most of my fun time in cars up in the mountains where you can't even get out of second gear I don't need
or want lots of power. If you can't have fun in a car with 100 hp then you can't have fun in one with 500.

[AutobahnSHO]

Reviews of the 'Yota version say it's better than the Miata.

Looks like an awesome car but I too am dismayed at the pricetag.  Where did the 240Z days go? When some car would come in and just SPANK everyone on price, justifying decent to good performance??

[sportyaccordy]

My car is 2700 lbs and has 170 hp.  That is at least 50 horses short.  Yes it can do ridiculously stupid speeds through corners that most cars wouldn't be able to, but a Toyota Sienna can spank my car in a drag race.  That's not cool.

Who gives a shit? You'd still rather drive the Focus than the Sienna right?

[Raza]

I think you guys have some sort of connotative hangup on the word itself.

Maybe.   

[Raza]

Then you should of gotten the 2.5, you would have had to work harder to move the car and it would have therefore been more enjoyable.

The driving experiences are totally different.  The 2.5 has a lot of torque down low, so it's very low effort in much of normal driving.  Obviously not an extreme, but if you were to go to it, then I really should be driving a 5,000 car with a scooter engine.  That would be lots of work!

[Raza]

Who gives a shit? You'd still rather drive the Focus than the Sienna right?

[SVT666]

Who gives a shit? You'd still rather drive the Focus than the Sienna right?

Well, I give a shit.  Yes I would rather drive the Focus, but I also don't like getting my ass handed to me by almost any family sedan or minivan out there.