Do we sometimes have unrealistic expecations?

[Vinsanity]

No, asking for less power is asking for more money.

I already cry at the pump filling up my car. Anyways, as I said, it's all just IMO.

Not necessarily- remember the Sonata turbo gets virtually the same mpg as the regular model. Same with the 1st-gen Caddy CTS: the 2.8 and 3.6 got the same mpg ratings. I think the 3.0 and 3.6 of the current model are close in mpg as well.

[Vinsanity]

Fuck them. They can walk.

Do they get pissed when you use that power in passing?

Some of the more uptight ones still do, but the ones who are used to my driving style now think it's unusual whenever I'd choose to hang back behind a car doing the speed limit or slower. Sometimes I still get questioned as to why I take off so fast when the light turns green, though.

[Onslaught]

Sometimes I still get questioned as to why I take off so fast when the light turns green, though.

You don't need to be hanging around these people. You can do better.

[Vinsanity]

You don't need to be hanging around these people. You can do better.

Thanks for your words of support! It's always nice when people appreciate me for just being me

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's all relative, and I can have my fun relative to not losing my license.

[Byteme]

It's all relative.  A small, nimble sports car with decent mileage like a Miata can be just as much fun to drive as a hulking beast with 500 HP and low mileage.

Personally I'll take efficiency over raw HP any day. 

[sportyaccordy]

I have that same beef. I think a car should excel at its niche, and not every car needs to be a sports car or have sports car qualities.

Right. After driving a few of the new midsizers I'm certain none of them could be outright fun. Too big. Better to make them focus on what they do best. As much as I loathe cars like the Camry it is good at what it does. It's wrong to look at it through the eyes of an enthusiast.

[Raza]

Having driven my brother's Viper and 911, plus raced stockcars for a few years, power is addicting. Smoking a Viper's tires through the first 3 gears is something to be experienced, and carving the 911 through a winding road at illegal speeds is better than any drug out there. I ache to build a 2300 lb FF Cobra with around 400 hp. Perhaps you don't understand it because you haven't experienced it yet?

I've driven plenty of very fast cars.  Caging up a car like a Viper on the road is a waste.  It's torture to be stuck driving a fast car slowly. 

[Speed_Racer]

I've driven plenty of very fast cars.  Caging up a car like a Viper on the road is a waste.  It's torture to be stuck driving a fast car slowly. 

What's that saying? I think it's: 'it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.'

[cawimmer430]

I have that same beef. I think a car should excel at its niche, and not every car needs to be a sports car or have sports car qualities.

Exactly. 


Another thing I am waiting for on various car blogs is the usual "...for $ __K I expect a 0-60 time of _____" comments.

Gee, maybe these guys should rip out the heavy and bulky seats of their moms 306-hp Nissan Quest and then their 0-60 times will improve... 

[Payman]

Thing is after you drive a fast car for sometime it seems slow after time. And you need to try and have more speed to get that addicting power feeling again.

I'm okay with that.

[Payman]

I've driven plenty of very fast cars.  Caging up a car like a Viper on the road is a waste.  It's torture to be stuck driving a fast car slowly. 

It's like packing a big gun. You may not use it much, but when you get a chance to...

[Payman]

When did this turn into VadgeSpin?

[Laconian]

PragmaticSpin

[Onslaught]

When did this turn into VadgeSpin?

Have you not been of the "The girls/boys/significant other thread" in a long time? This place is full of men with emotions.

[NomisR]

Have you not been of the "The girls/boys/significant other thread" in a long time? This place is full of men with emotions.

Real men don't have emotions.

[Onslaught]

Real men don't have emotions.

Even when you do you must hide them. Push them way down inside. It's healthy.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I've driven plenty of very fast cars.  Caging up a car like a Viper on the road is a waste.  It's torture to be stuck driving a fast car slowly. 

TORTuRE.
Or you can just say to hell with it and face the consequences of fast.

[Eye of the Tiger]

PragmaticSpin

AccentSPIN

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's like packing a big gun. You may not use it much, but when you get a chance to...

On the other hand, you can shoot thousands of rounds out of a .22 and everyone will think you're saving the planet.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

It's like packing a big gun. You may not use it much, but when you get a chance to...

Yep......

[SVT666]

Thing is after you drive a fast car for sometime it seems slow after time. And you need to try and have more speed to get that addicting power feeling again.

That feeling comes quicker when you drive a slow car.

[93JC]

I was reading the comments on autoblog how some users don't like the 500 because it's too slow. (I don't really think it is)

The biggest problem people have with the Fiat 500 is price. On a $/lb basis it's not worth buying because a number of other vehicles, bigger vehicles, can be had for the same money or less. This makes it a difficult proposition for most American consumers.

It's priced about the same as a car not only one but two sizes bigger, so most people think it's just horribly impractical and in order to justify its price it needs to be exceptional in some way other than retro looks. That's why I think people harp on it for being too slow; not because it really is dangerously slow, but because it isn't outstanding in any quantitative way compared to its competitors (especially the Mini Cooper).

People read the spec sheet and see it's only making about 100 hp and 0-60 takes around 10 seconds, all the while getting about the same government fuel economy rating as the Hyundai Elantra (again, a car two sizes bigger). The fact that it looks neat, drives well and, for its size, actually is pretty practical (a lot more practical than a Smart Fortwo, for instance) is lost on many people because it doesn't translate to a spec sheet.


Unfortunately for the 500 I think cars of this size are a bit of a non-starter in the United States. Americans want big, cheap cars. They always have.



I think people have some pretty warped expectations for cars these days. Features/dollar is driving a 'race' of sorts, to see who can outfit their cars with more 'entertainment' options. Cars are being filled with all sorts of gadgets and gizmos, many of which I don't think I'd ever use even if I had them. There's also a lot of competition for power/dollar, but whether or not that power makes a difference to actual performance seems to be lost on the average buyer (witness the proliferation of new Hyundais and Kias with relatively high power outputs but relatively crappy performance). It's all about catering to people who set up a spreadsheet to do their car shopping instead of going out and driving the sorts of cars they want.

[Vinsanity]

The biggest problem people have with the Fiat 500 is price. On a $/lb basis it's not worth buying because a number of other vehicles, bigger vehicles, can be had for the same money or less. This makes it a difficult proposition for most American consumers.

It's priced about the same as a car not only one but two sizes bigger, so most people think it's just horribly impractical and in order to justify its price it needs to be exceptional in some way other than retro looks. That's why I think people harp on it for being too slow; not because it really is dangerously slow, but because it isn't outstanding in any quantitative way compared to its competitors (especially the Mini Cooper).

People read the spec sheet and see it's only making about 100 hp and 0-60 takes around 10 seconds, all the while getting about the same government fuel economy rating as the Hyundai Elantra (again, a car two sizes bigger). The fact that it looks neat, drives well and, for its size, actually is pretty practical (a lot more practical than a Smart Fortwo, for instance) is lost on many people because it doesn't translate to a spec sheet.


Unfortunately for the 500 I think cars of this size are a bit of a non-starter in the United States. Americans want big, cheap cars. They always have.

This is a much bigger problem for the even smaller and even more expensive Scion IQ. Yeah, I understand that it's designed to be small, but not cheap, but it's a horribly impractical car for $16k. For that price, you could get a Nissan Versa and a little Vespa type scooter.

Oh, and I did use a spreadsheet last time I went car shopping But only because I wanted to deal with as few annoying salesmen as possible.

[93JC]

I also used a spreadsheet but it didn't factor into my ultimate decision. Ultimately I test drove a bunch of cars I was considering and picked the one I liked to drive the most.

[Tave]

I think people have some pretty warped expectations for cars these days. Features/dollar is driving a 'race' of sorts, to see who can outfit their cars with more 'entertainment' options. Cars are being filled with all sorts of gadgets and gizmos, many of which I don't think I'd ever use even if I had them. There's also a lot of competition for power/dollar, but whether or not that power makes a difference to actual performance seems to be lost on the average buyer (witness the proliferation of new Hyundais and Kias with relatively high power outputs but relatively crappy performance). It's all about catering to people who set up a spreadsheet to do their car shopping instead of going out and driving the sorts of cars they want.

Agreed, and I think this is a big part of the reason why new cars have been getting more and more expensive. Surely, after 100 years of automotive development, you would think one of our automakers would be willing to release a Beatle-esque product: simple, cheap, reliable, etc... But there isn't any money in designing a low-cost car that will last forever, even if that's what the consumer wants, so instead we're stuck in the power/features race.

[Byteme]

Agreed, and I think this is a big part of the reason why new cars have been getting more and more expensive. Surely, after 100 years of automotive development, you would think one of our automakers would be willing to release a Beatle-esque product: simple, cheap, reliable, etc... But there isn't any money in designing a low-cost car that will last forever, even if that's what the consumer wants, so instead we're stuck in the power/features race.

Like a Tata Nano or like a Focus with manual locks, windows, FM/AM radio with 4 speakers, dog dish hub caps, cheap seats, rubber floor mats, etc.  No one would want it.  It doesn't cost that much more to have "nice" and not much more than nice to have "really nice". 

[sportyaccordy]

Part of it is ego too, people can't bear to be seen in a small car, people can't bear to have the slowest car at a stoplight, people can't bear to have an older model of a luxury car, people can't bear to drive a car w/no brand equity etc

People are stupid as hell when it comes to buying cars.

Like I said a while back after driving my mother in law's ratty ass Corolla I'm good. All I need is a small car that can get out of its own way. It would be nice to have a track car and a motorcycle to complement it + fulfill my need for speed, but I'd rather have the $$$$ to be honest. No matter how nice a car is, eventually the novelty wears off. So it makes no sense to me to keep chasing that new car high.

[S204STi]

I'd say, from personal preference, that ~200hp is just adequate for the majority of cars.  250-300 is more like it.  Past 300 you're starting to get beyond what most cars can utilize on the street.  400 is blisteringly fast and plenty of shove for pretty much anybody's needs. 

That's not to say that more power is bad, but a 400hp GTO is the most powerful car I've driven to date, and it felt like I could barely use its power in traffic.  I'd love to drive one again on the open road or maybe just a freeway onramp to get a real feel for the power that thing creates.

[Vinsanity]

Part of it is ego too, people can't bear to be seen in a small car, people can't bear to have the slowest car at a stoplight, people can't bear to have an older model of a luxury car, people can't bear to drive a car w/no brand equity etc

Well, with all the extra features newer luxury cars have today, an older model luxury car really becomes just a regular car that needs to be taken to the shop more often. I don't even have an aux input in my car, and I the last CD I used my CD changer for was from 2009. That said, there's still a lot that I like about my car even though may not be to the world now what it was 7 years ago.

The Passat thread got me thinking yesterday, that the base 5-banger is probably perfectly adequate for the car, but I could never choose one knowing that better powertrain options are available in other cars. There's nothing wrong with being happy with what's adequate, but there's no point in settling for less than the best you can afford.