So is it worth it?

[Soup DeVille]

Again, as I come closer to grokking the decision and actually testing driving cars...

Did you actually just say "grokking?"

[GoCougs]

Did you actually just say "grokking?"

I did. 'Tis a good term. Liked the book but not the biggest Heinlein fan despite trying many times.

[Soup DeVille]

I did. 'Tis a good term. Liked the book but not the biggest Heinlein fan despite trying many times.

Okay. Just checkin'

[GoCougs]

I'm not sure why you think there is such a drastic difference in reliability between an Camry and, say, an A4. My Passat (same car different skin, at least back in my model year) was very reliable 'til I traded it in at 153K miles a few weeks ago ? just oil changes, brakes/tires and changed the timing belt around 100K. It had one factory defect, which was covered under warranty. Growing up, my family usually always had one "plebian" car and one luxury and/or sports car. Save my Saab Story, I never remember any of those luxury/performance cars being significantly less reliable than the other cars. I think those issues tend to be overstated.

I hate to use an old slogan, but "driving is believing," if that makes any sense. When I was just searching for a car, I test drove a BMW 3er. It was actually an emotional experience for me. You could feel the soul of the car. I wish I could've gotten it, but unfortunately my situation is such that I need an SUV at the moment. But some day when the LR2 starts getting long in the tooth with 150K miles, I think I'll end up keeping it as a second utility car that I can beat up on the beach/in the woods without worrying about scratching paint etc., and get a 3er. I had never really driven one, save for a girl I went on a date with once who had a couple too many drinks at dinner, but it was an enjoyable experience.

If you drive the car and it does nothing for you, move on...

Between official sources (JD, Consumer Reports) and the significant anecdotal stories from my myriad Teutonic-centric friends, I have concluded that such cars aren't as reliable as a Camcord. Many such enthusiasts not only acknowledge such things, they're fine with it - they see it as an equitable trade, including my friend with the 996 Turbo (told me yesterday it's developed an engine leak recently). I just wouldn't be. Life's too busy to muck about with car repairs - I've spent way too much time in the past mucking with such things.

[GoCougs]

All you are doing is trying to convince yourself just to get a new Camry or Accord.  Spare us the "...more engaging than all your cars..." bullshit.  They aren't.  You know it.  We know it.  You want another dull midsize family sedan, so just buy one.

Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.

[Cookie Monster]

I'm still not sure where the "Camcord V6's are better than most cars" argument. Pretty much everyone who has posted in this thread has or had a car more fun than a Camcord V6.

[Rupert]

I knew this thread would devolve to that eventually. Cougs is just baiting the board.

[GoCougs]

I didn't devolve it. We can thank for like the 37th time the turkey who is literally suffering PTSD from the Camaro's success as a product and as a market presence insists on polluting any thread I care to post in.

[Byteme]

You sure about that? I don't know of anyone with that kind of money. Even ones who are retired or working for it.

No actually that is probably pretty close IMO, depending on what kind of pensions one has when they retire. 

[sportyaccordy]

And despite what is said on here, they are better performing and more engaging cars to drive than most cars

Such as?

I agree that they are good cars ownership wise, but I have driven the best those marques have to offer (07 Accord V6 6 speed coupe), and while that was somewhat fun it was hardly thrilling. These are still 3500lb automatic transmission FWD sedans... there is good reason people don't choose these platforms for racing...

[Byteme]

The issue is, just by trending inflation of health care, and major lifestyle items such as fuel, utilities, and the like, plus abominable monetary policy, I estimate a 5% inflation rate and a 3% savings rate. That means that $2MM in 2037 is equivalent to only $754,000 today, which if factoring in a $2,000/month draw down, would leave a retiree with $0 during the 19th year of retirement.

True, few have that kind of money. Scary indeed.

If that advice is from a finacial planner you need a new one, IMHO.  Don't forget your investments (401k, any brokerage accounts, 403B, whatever are not sitting stagnant, or shouldn't be at least).  You should have your money is something that returns a decent ROR.  and some of it in something that shows decent growth and return potential. You should be making the max contribution to your 401K or 403B. and saving elsewhere as well, if you can.  Pretax deductions are your best friend.

As for a car.  I'v owned at least 1 toy in addition to the daily drivers since I was 30.  One doesn't need to invest a ton of money in one to have fun.  Don't want one for a daily driver, fine.  Get one as a second car toy.  I enjoy wrenching so it's a hobby with me.  My philosophy is that it's better to look back and think, "Damn, that Fiat Spider, or Model A, or E-type or fill in the blank, was a lot of fun"  rather than sitting there when you retire and thinking, "Damn, I wish, I'd bought that car back in 2012".  You only are going to ride this merry-go-round once, so enjoy it while you can.

[SVT666]

Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.

My forutes turn around?  My wife and I grossed $180,000 last calendar year.  We went on three trips, bought a trailer and a boat and paid cash for it all.  So fuck you.  If you want a Camcord V6, then buy a Camcord V6 and stop trying to justify it with bullshit arguments like "...more engaging to drive than any other Spinner's cars..."

If you can't find a compelling reason why a CPO 5 Series or brand new 3 Series or whatever else you are mythically looking at is better than a Camry, then there is nothing that any of the entusiasts on this forum can say or do to change your mind.  You don't have to convince us of your car decision since we all knew you would end up with a Camcord before you did.  The purpose of this thread is to convince yourself...hence the the BS excuses to buy a Camcord.

[sportyaccordy]

Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.

Lol

For what YOU want the CamCord is perfect. Where you (justifiably) get shitted on is trying to say the CamCord is perfect for everybody. And then to have the gall to say they are engaging. Again compared to what? The most popular car here is the Miata. SVT666's Focus is way more engaging than pretty much any CamCord ever made. So what exactly are you talking about?

[Byteme]

Life's too busy to muck about with car repairs - I've spent way too much time in the past mucking with such things.

And life is too short to drive an appliance.   Unless, of course, that's all you demand of a car. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Accent > Camcord

[TurboDan]

Once your fortunes turn around get yourself something better for crying out loud; until then just stop being bitter and jealous about what other people are doing.

Who here would be jealous of your hypothetical Camcord? To the contrary, when I see a middle aged guy driving one of those things, I always feel sorry for guy, having made the assumption that he would've gotten something cooler had his wife not de-balled him to such an extent that he has to drive a boring, cheap sedan that meets the approval of her sensibilities.

[Cookie Monster]

Who here would be jealous of your hypothetical Camcord? To the contrary, when I see a middle aged guy driving one of those things, I always feel sorry for guy, having made the assumption that he would've gotten something cooler had his wife not de-balled him to such an extent that he has to drive a boring, cheap sedan that meets the approval of her sensibilities.

I don't always think it's the wife's fault, but I do feel bad for the guy driving it still. To be single, with no family, and yet still pining for a V6 Camcord, all while trashing people who drive far more engaging cars, is pretty pathetic.

[sportyaccordy]

Jealous of a CamCord V6

[Tave]

Such as?

I agree that they are good cars ownership wise, but I have driven the best those marques have to offer (07 Accord V6 6 speed coupe), and while that was somewhat fun it was hardly thrilling. These are still 3500lb automatic transmission FWD sedans... there is good reason people don't choose these platforms for racing...

Hey SportyAccordy, didn't you purchase and modify something like 3 Honda Accords?

I didn't devolve it. We can thank for like the 37th time the turkey who is literally suffering PTSD from the Camaro's success as a product and as a market presence insists on polluting any thread I care to post in.

The thread was dead the moment you decided that "it" wasn't worth it. I won't fault you for buying a Toyota Camry if that's what you want, and I think people here take the whole Camcord criticism thing way too far, but surely you can understand why they don't want to have endless discussions about cars they don't find to be exciting in any way.

[Lebowski]

Unacceptable backseat room - it's almost a four-door 2+2. But I do like the car overall.

I test drove an IS back when I bought the vette and reached the same conclusion. Back seat room is abysmal, defeating the purpose of a sedan IMO. It ranked last of the sedans I considered, vs the g35 and 3er.

With all the outdoor stuff you do I'm surprised you aren't exclusively looking at hatch or wagons if not a small SUV. Almost seems a 2 car setup would make most sense.


I come up with a minimum $3 million (in today's dollars) plus paid off house and no personal debt for a comfortable (but not lavish) retirement. I don't want to be in a position where I'd have to touch principal at all in order to fund living expenses, which is really just a gamble on how long you think you'll live.

[Tave]

I come up with a minimum $3 million (in today's dollars) plus paid off house and no personal debt for a comfortable (but not lavish) retirement. I don't want to be in a position where I'd have to touch principal at all in order to fund living expenses, which is really just a gamble on how long you think you'll live.

What do you consider a safe but reasonable rate of return?

[sportyaccordy]

Hey SportyAccordy, didn't you purchase and modify something like 3 Honda Accords?

I did... and they were fun... but I also didn't know what else was out there. I still have some fond memories of those cars, but much of that was based in context.

I've driven the same cars recently... and found them to be boring and old. People's opinions can change over time

Like I said... the cars are decent. With some mods they can be fun. But we all know Cougs won't turn a wrench (and I don't fault him for that). But I still think it's ridiculous for him to assert something like an Accord DX V6 is more engaging than... well... anything. The cars are designed to isolate.

[Submariner]

Rear leg room is 30.6" - smaller than ANY compact I can Google. The back seats are coupe useless.

It feels even smaller than the numbers suggest. 

[Lebowski]

It feels even smaller than the numbers suggest. 

Unless they've made changes recently the problem is the shape of the front seats leaves no knee room. It's horrible.

S4 ain't much better.

[Raza]

Unless they've made changes recently the problem is the shape of the front seats leaves no knee room. It's horrible.

S4 ain't much better.

Having been in the back seat of my brother's car, I agree.  The rear seats are tight for full size adults. 

[SVT666]

Having been in the back seat of my brother's car, I agree.  The rear seats are tight for full size adults. 

As opposed to miniature adults?

[MrH]

I have plenty of pint size adult friends. They just stopped growing i guess.

[Byteme]

As opposed to miniature adults?

Well, these guys never complain about the lack of rear leg room.  Or headroom for that matter.

[Raza]

As opposed to miniature adults?

I have a lot of midget friends from that summer I worked at a circus.

[3.0L V6]

Ok, having established what the baseline for what you want - have you considered a second-gen Mazda 6 V6? Or perhaps a Nissan Altima V6 or a Maxima?

Both seem to fit your needs well and tend towards the sporty side of the mid-size sedan spectrum.