What Do The Rich Really Drive?

[Rupert]

That is the most annoying avatar ever, sparky. Image blocked.

[sparkplug]

That is the most annoying avatar ever, sparky. Image blocked.

Can't please everyone.

There I've modified it.

[Rupert]

Still annoying, still getting blocked.

[sparkplug]

Suit yourself.

[dazzleman]

I think this thread could use another look, with all the changes in the automotive industry in the past 10 years.

The growth of electric vehicles might figure prominently into this by now.

A buddy of mine got a Bolt and loves it.  He makes a good income but has 7 kids and is the sole wage earner for the family.  They just moved to a much nicer house.

In any case, he said he loves the Bolt and won't go back to a gasoline vehicle.  He said he charges it in his garage every night, and it has a range of about 250 miles.  I asked him what he would do if he were driving to Florida, and he quickly answered "I wouldn't take it."

And therein lies the problem with all electric vehicles.  They can be great as a daily driver for distances within the range, as long as you have a nice garage or driveway to charge them in at night.  (It's a whole different issue for people who live in apartments and must park their cars on the street with no available chargers.)  But their achilles heel is the long trip.  That would preclude them from being a person's only car.

I also know a few guys who have Teslas.  These guys are high earners who use the Tesla as a weekend toy or for short trips.  Once again, it couldn't serve as the only vehicle because of the range issue and how long it takes to charge it, so they tend to use them for some fast driving joyrides on the weekends, and maybe to commute to work if the distance isn't too great.  Typically, the Tesla would be supplemented with a gas guzzling SUV as the full family car to be used for serious trips.

So it seems that electric cars have taken a strong place among cars owned by the rich, but the twist is that they are either grown men toys or limited daily drivers that have to supplemented with another vehicle for more serious trips.

[Rich]

I'd get an EV now if I had the $.  We have "free" charging at our apartment complex that barely anyone uses. 

[NomisR]

For Tesla, you can easily travel long distances compared to others due to the ease of use of the infrastructure, and the car would be able to plan your route for you.  My friend did a round trip around the country from California to KY to NY and then back with his Model S Plaid .. without any charging issues.  The car itself did run into some problems but it's not charging related.  I think once the range goes over 300miles with sufficient infrastructure, long trips isn't an issue anymore.  I've done a trip to SF without any problems since all by the time Austin wants to pee, it's a good time to do a short 10 min charge.

[dazzleman]

I'd get an EV now if I had the $.  We have "free" charging at our apartment complex that barely anyone uses.

But would it have enough range for all the driving you do for your job?  Or do you use a company car.  Range and recharging time seem to be the great weakness of electric cars.  It's a deal breaker for me at this point.

I am not convinced that electric cars are really the wave of the future.  I suspect that they might be like the compact fluorescent light bulbs that everybody was pushing about 15 years ago - a flawed place holder until some better technology comes along.  Time will tell.  Sometimes I predict the future very well but other times I don't.

[dazzleman]

For Tesla, you can easily travel long distances compared to others due to the ease of use of the infrastructure, and the car would be able to plan your route for you.  My friend did a round trip around the country from California to KY to NY and then back with his Model S Plaid .. without any charging issues.  The car itself did run into some problems but it's not charging related.  I think once the range goes over 300miles with sufficient infrastructure, long trips isn't an issue anymore.  I've done a trip to SF without any problems since all by the time Austin wants to pee, it's a good time to do a short 10 min charge.

But doesn't it take a long time to charge it when it runs down?  Wouldn't that ultimately add many hours to a long trip with so much down time?

[Soup DeVille]

But doesn't it take a long time to charge it when it runs down?  Wouldn't that ultimately add many hours to a long trip with so much down time?

If you travel via main highway, and if you're not hellbent for leather for getting there quick (taking breaks for lunch or whatever), its basically a non-issue (as long as you do minimal planning).

If you're traveling off the beaten path, and driving on through the night, its a bit of a problem.

[veeman]

For Tesla, you can easily travel long distances compared to others due to the ease of use of the infrastructure, and the car would be able to plan your route for you.  My friend did a round trip around the country from California to KY to NY and then back with his Model S Plaid .. without any charging issues.  The car itself did run into some problems but it's not charging related.  I think once the range goes over 300miles with sufficient infrastructure, long trips isn't an issue anymore.  I've done a trip to SF without any problems since all by the time Austin wants to pee, it's a good time to do a short 10 min charge.

Tesla is the best EV for long distances because of it's public charge infrastructure and the ability to know how many charge ports are open and functional at any given time at a particular public charge station.  But it's still not a great long distance car or even a good one.  Go to any touristy area and you'll hardly see any EVs and there's a good reason for that.  It can be done no doubt but it's not convenient and who wants to worry about where they're going to charge while on vacation away from home. 

Dazzleman is right.  Tesla for man toy and green cred (not a bad thing).  Chevy Suburban for long distance vacation trip with family. 

[Rich]

But would it have enough range for all the driving you do for your job?  Or do you use a company car.  Range and recharging time seem to be the great weakness of electric cars.  It's a deal breaker for me at this point.

I am not convinced that electric cars are really the wave of the future.  I suspect that they might be like the compact fluorescent light bulbs that everybody was pushing about 15 years ago - a flawed place holder until some better technology comes along.  Time will tell.  Sometimes I predict the future very well but other times I don't.

I could take my wife's car, or rent a car for the longer trips (which work would pay for and which I have done for most of my work trips).  I understand EVs aren't for everyone, especially city apartment dwellers. 

[JWC]

Can you imagine having guests arrive at your house for dinner and them asking where to plug in their car? 

[SJ_GTI]

An EV would work fine for me. I cannot recall the last time I have driven more than ~200 miles in one go? Last time for sure was when I was living in Toronto but would drive back to NJ a couple of times a year.

[NomisR]

But doesn't it take a long time to charge it when it runs down?  Wouldn't that ultimately add many hours to a long trip with so much down time?

Pretty much what Soup says.. for the trip planner, for me to get from LA to SF, it gave me 2 5-10 min stops on the way and I get to the hotel with around 20% charge left.  The hotel has charging available so it allows me to fill up over night.  I also had the option of stopping for a longer period and have lunch which allows me to get closer to full.  You can basically go 0-80% in about 30-45 mins or so depending on the charger speed.  The one big benefit to the Tesla is that you know how many chargers are open on your screen and Tesla knows which ones are broken, which is one of the biggest problems I have with other EVs, the charging is unpredictable.  The car also conditions the battery to get optimal charging temperature so it'll be faster when you get there.

[NomisR]

Tesla is the best EV for long distances because of it's public charge infrastructure and the ability to know how many charge ports are open and functional at any given time at a particular public charge station.  But it's still not a great long distance car or even a good one.  Go to any touristy area and you'll hardly see any EVs and there's a good reason for that.  It can be done no doubt but it's not convenient and who wants to worry about where they're going to charge while on vacation away from home. 

Dazzleman is right.  Tesla for man toy and green cred (not a bad thing).  Chevy Suburban for long distance vacation trip with family. 

I don't think it's that bad, i'm planning a trip during spring break to take the kids to Great Basin National Park, i'm debating wether to take the 3 or the GX460.  With the gas prices, I'm debating whether or not to take the Tesla, it'll take a bit more planning of course, but it should be doable.   ABRP is a good tool for figuring out the best route with min stoppage time.

[veeman]

Pretty much what Soup says.. for the trip planner, for me to get from LA to SF, it gave me 2 5-10 min stops on the way and I get to the hotel with around 20% charge left.  The hotel has charging available so it allows me to fill up over night.  I also had the option of stopping for a longer period and have lunch which allows me to get closer to full.  You can basically go 0-80% in about 30-45 mins or so depending on the charger speed.  The one big benefit to the Tesla is that you know how many chargers are open on your screen and Tesla knows which ones are broken, which is one of the biggest problems I have with other EVs, the charging is unpredictable.  The car also conditions the battery to get optimal charging temperature so it'll be faster when you get there.

I don't think it's that bad, i'm planning a trip during spring break to take the kids to Great Basin National Park, i'm debating wether to take the 3 or the GX460.  With the gas prices, I'm debating whether or not to take the Tesla, it'll take a bit more planning of course, but it should be doable.   ABRP is a good tool for figuring out the best route with min stoppage time.

I agree with you, its doable.  But it requires some thought/planning.  Unlike with ICE. 

I think a lot of people don't want to do that extra thought/planning when on vacation.  In the continental U.S. no one with ICE thinks about where they're going to fill up or how long it will take to fill up with an ICE car.  It's probably worth it if gas goes to $6 a gallon although I kinda doubt it'll go that high outside of California (where it already is above $6/gallon in some cities.

[Laconian]

Doesn't the Tesla nav handle the pitstop logistics?

[Morris Minor]

Here I'd say frugality & not being flashy is a thing. If people treat themselves it's likely to be a Q7, or Mercedes GLE or similar. Definitely more Teslas around now though, partly because it's a pain to drive down to ICE dealer service departments, and electric torques & brake regen are magic on mountain roads.

(I'd buy a Y, but would wait for a Texas-built one w/ 4680 batteries. Guessing it'll be late-'23/early'-24 before they're past the teething problems.)

[NomisR]

I agree with you, its doable.  But it requires some thought/planning.  Unlike with ICE. 

I think a lot of people don't want to do that extra thought/planning when on vacation.  In the continental U.S. no one with ICE thinks about where they're going to fill up or how long it will take to fill up with an ICE car.  It's probably worth it if gas goes to $6 a gallon although I kinda doubt it'll go that high outside of California (where it already is above $6/gallon in some cities.

I usually like to try to plan for my pit stops, but having kids, especially one that pees a lot changes things.. most of the time I try to. 

Doesn't the Tesla nav handle the pitstop logistics?

Yeah it does.  What it does really poorly is plan for your fueling when you get there, so if you don't plan for it, you might be stuck somewhere with 10% electricity and nowhere to charge up.

Here I'd say frugality & not being flashy is a thing. If people treat themselves it's likely to be a Q7, or Mercedes GLE or similar. Definitely more Teslas around now though, partly because it's a pain to drive down to ICE dealer service departments, and electric torques & brake regen are magic on mountain roads.

(I'd buy a Y, but would wait for a Texas-built one w/ 4680 batteries. Guessing it'll be late-'23/early'-24 before they're past the teething problems.)

Teslas are so common here that it's not flashy at all.  Also I would say almost 80% of all Model 3s I see are the Standard Range versions.

[CaminoRacer]

Teslas are the Honda Civic of the Bay Area. So many of them

[NomisR]

Teslas are the Honda Civic of the Bay Area. So many of them

There's more Teslas than Honda Civics.

[Morris Minor]

There's more Teslas than Honda Civics.

Tesla got to a run rate of 1.2M late last year. IIRC numbers people are forecasting production of about 1.5M for this year. The new factories have capacities of about 0.5M each, but will take a while to get into their stride.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Maybe Tesla can make a car that isn't just for rich people. I dunno.

[Morris Minor]

Early ICE cars were toys for the rich. Then manufacturers learned to scale and build down to a price.
I've long thought that you can judge the corporate cynicism of carmakers by their base models and base trims. Cheap vs inexpensive.