UPDATE: 2-0 on tickets

[GoCougs]

As usual wrong again.

Time stampism is a brutal mistress:

Absolutely correct and if I'd been caught I'd have manned up and paid the price of whatever I couldn't talk the cop out of writing.  More than once I was stopped by a cop for excessive speed and they told me "I'm not going to write you a ticket becasue I really like this car, but slow down"  Do let us know if a cop ever tells you that in your Camry.    

Yes, I've seen enough of your Internetry to grok that you would not defend yourself. Also, would it help if I posted Camry SE V6 vs. E-Type performance stats?

[Byteme]

Time stampism is a brutal mistress:

Turbo Dan brought the Camry up even earlier.

Regardless of who brought it up first you're still a dick of the first order.

[GoCougs]

Turbo Dan brought the Camry up even earlier.

Regardless of who brought it up first you're still a dick of the first order.

Does your trolling nullify his?

And I think you're an alright cat who simply lets himself get spun up a bit about immaterial things.

[hotrodalex]

And I think you're an alright cat who simply lets himself get spun up a bit about immaterial things.

...says the guy who spends how much time every day posting about how awesome he is and trying to prove people wrong...

[GoCougs]

...says the guy who spent how much to dismiss a simple HOV violation ticket?

Didn't I mention that? $350 flat fee plus I comp'd her one of the products my company makes, which now has us chatting a bit (that is, outside the dealings of the case, which is now over) .  Writing a check is a heckuva lot less "spinning" than going to court, or even mailing in a check and marking that ridiculous "guilty" box.

[hotrodalex]

Oh wow, you're watching this thread like a hawk. Must be pretty obsessed with it to be able to catch that post within the 30 seconds it was up before I changed it.

I'm also quite disappointed. Your internetry is failing. You should have pointed out that an HOV fine is technically a material thing, which is why I changed it.

[GoCougs]

Oh wow, you're watching this thread like a hawk. Must be pretty obsessed with it to be able to catch that post within the 30 seconds it was up before I changed it.

I'm also quite disappointed. Your internetry is failing. You should have pointed out that an HOV fine is technically a material thing, which is why I changed it.

Crouching Internetry.

[dazzleman]

Cougs, did you appear in court at all, or just send your lawyer?

Absent the entertainment value, having to appear can be worse than paying a fine in some ways.

If you have to appear for your speeding ticket, film it and post it on here.  It would be quite entertaining.

[hotrodalex]

Crouching Internetry.

Your diction is quite uncertain. Are you implying that I'm lying close to the ground with my knees bent while browsing the internet? Or are you using the more obscure definition of "to stand at a low height", implying that my internetry is lacking? Either case would be incorrect, considering alphas always admit their mistakes and fix them as soon as possible.

[GoCougs]

Your diction is quite uncertain. Are you implying that I'm lying close to the ground with my knees bent while browsing the internet? Or are you using the more obscure definition of "to stand at a low height", implying that my internetry is lacking? Either case would be incorrect, considering alphas always admit their mistakes and fix them as soon as possible.

Uh...

But I will give a 'B' for effort.

[GoCougs]

Cougs, did you appear in court at all, or just send your lawyer?

Absent the entertainment value, having to appear can be worse than paying a fine in some ways.

If you have to appear for your speeding ticket, film it and post it on here.  It would be quite entertaining.

No, didn't have to appear, and won't have to appear for the other ticket either.

Completely agree, having to show would probably make it not worth it (though I'd show probably show for the speeding ticket owing to its BS nature).

[dazzleman]

No, didn't have to appear, and won't have to appear for the other ticket either.

Completely agree, having to show would probably make it not worth it (though I'd show probably show for the speeding ticket owing to its BS nature).

Here, you have to appear, as far as I know.

It was actually quite entertaining when I went to traffic court for my last speeding ticket.  But I got there early so that I was at the head of the line.  If I'd gotten there at the time they said, I'd have been at the back of the line and been stuck there for most of the day.  That would have sucked.

[hounddog]

I cannot understand how you would not have to appear, the ticket is yours not your lawyers.

Yet another reason why the left coast is so fucked up; no personal responsibility even in court. 

[dazzleman]

I cannot understand how you would not have to appear, the ticket is yours not your lawyers.

Yet another reason why the left coast is so fucked up; no personal responsibility even in court. 

In Washington, I think that traffic infractions are considered civil offenses rather than criminal, so the court procedures are different.  Here, they're considered criminal offenses or infractions, albeit low level.

[GoCougs]

Not having to show is awesome - makes the process super easy - plus it's an infraction not a criminal offense.

That there is apparatchik court system devoted to traffic infractions is beyond ridiculous.

[GoCougs]

I cannot understand how you would not have to appear, the ticket is yours not your lawyers.

Yet another reason why the left coast is so fucked up; no personal responsibility even in court.  

Ha, ha - you really want to make this a WA vs. MI thing? So is your daddy bigger than mine too?

[dazzleman]

Not having to show is awesome - makes the process super easy - plus it's an infraction not a criminal offense.

That there is apparatchik court system devoted to traffic infractions is beyond ridiculous.

I wish you had to show, and that I could be there to witness it.  An appearance by you in court as a speeding ticket defendant would probably be hilarious.

[hounddog]

In Washington, I think that traffic infractions are considered civil offenses rather than criminal, so the court procedures are different.  Here, they're considered criminal offenses or infractions, albeit low level.

Here they are also civil, and you also must appear if you choose to fight them.  Failure to appear to your civil hearing will cause you to;

Lose your case
Potential for Contempt of Court warrant
Potential suspension of your license
Increased fines and costs

[hounddog]

Ha, ha - you really want to make this a WA vs. MI thing? So is your daddy bigger than mine too?

Well, he is 6'5 and maybe 235 pounds. 

Making it super easy is part in parcel of why the justice system in America is failing.  One should always have to appear in court when he forces the court proceedings.

Like I said, just another representation of why the left coast is such an aweful place with this anti-responsibility kick it has been on for 20+ years.  If you lose you should be required to pay 150% more in fines and costs for the courts to recover the damages you inflict on them.

[GoCougs]

I wish you had to show, and that I could be there to witness it.  An appearance by you in court as a speeding ticket defendant would probably be hilarious.

I've been in my earlier years. In high school I got a negligent driving ticket (a criminal offense) and had to go to criminal court (sitting in the benches with guys in jump suits and cuffs). Long story short, I got lucky and a social connection spoke to the LEO (knew him casually outside of work) who in turn spoke to the prosecutor just before we were called by the judge to drop the case; which he did.

[dazzleman]

Well, he is 6'5 and maybe 235 pounds. 

Making it super easy is part in parcel of why the justice system in America is failing.  One should always have to appear in court when he forces the court proceedings.

Like I said, just another representation of why the left coast is such an aweful place with this anti-responsibility kick it has been on for 20+ years.  If you lose you should be required to pay 150% more in fines and costs for the courts to recover the damages you inflict on them.

I agree with you that defendants should have to appear.  What Cougs did is tantamount to simply buying his way out of the offense.  Yes, it cost more money that it would have cost to pay the fine, but he keeps it off his driving record.

[GoCougs]

Well, he is 6'5 and maybe 235 pounds. 

Making it super easy is part in parcel of why the justice system in America is failing.  One should always have to appear in court when he forces the court proceedings.

Like I said, just another representation of why the left coast is such an aweful place with this anti-responsibility kick it has been on for 20+ years.  If you lose you should be required to pay 150% more in fines and costs for the courts to recover the damages you inflict on them.

Oh good heavens that was easier than anticipated.

So where's that list?

[GoCougs]

I agree with you that defendants should have to appear.  What Cougs did is tantamount to simply buying his way out of the offense.  Yes, it cost more money that it would have cost to pay the fine, but he keeps it off his driving record.

Not at all, I worked the system the system itself put in place. Anybody can do what I did.

[dazzleman]

Not at all, I worked the system the system itself put in place. Anybody can do what I did.

As long as they can afford to spend 3x the cost of the ticket.  I don't think it's a good system.  I don't blame you for that, but clearly the system sucks, and it's not just limited to a case like this.

Would you pull this shit if you have to appear in court?  Or would you just mail in the fine?

[GoCougs]

As long as they can afford to spend 3x the cost of the ticket.  I don't think it's a good system.  I don't blame you for that, but clearly the system sucks, and it's not just limited to a case like this.

Would you pull this shit if you have to appear in court?  Or would you just mail in the fine?

In effect what your describing is no court system; no advocacy or adversarial check against state power. Sure not everyone can afford an attorney for an infraction but look at the alternative - WAY worse IMO.

As I've stated, I think both of these tickets were BS (or at least more BS than the typical ticket); not sure about the HOV ticket but I would appear for the speeding ticket despite being ~250 miles away.

[dazzleman]

In effect what your describing is no court system; no advocacy or adversarial check against state power. Sure not everyone can afford an attorney for an infraction but look at the alternative - WAY worse IMO.

As I've stated, I think both of these tickets were BS (or at least more BS than the typical ticket); not sure about the HOV ticket but I would appear for the speeding ticket despite being ~250 miles away.

I don't advocate for no court system, just a better one.  Probably an impossibility.

It would be pretty funny if you got another speeding ticket driving to your court appearance.  That would make a great thread on here. 

[GoCougs]

I don't advocate for no court system, just a better one.  Probably an impossibility.

It would be pretty funny if you got another speeding ticket driving to your court appearance.  That would make a great thread on here. 

It would make a good thread; could happen too.

[dazzleman]

It would make a good thread; could happen too.

Make it happen, Joe. 

[TurboDan]

Well, he is 6'5 and maybe 235 pounds. 

Making it super easy is part in parcel of why the justice system in America is failing.  One should always have to appear in court when he forces the court proceedings.

Like I said, just another representation of why the left coast is such an aweful place with this anti-responsibility kick it has been on for 20+ years.  If you lose you should be required to pay 150% more in fines and costs for the courts to recover the damages you inflict on them.

I was with you until the last paragraph. Just because someone loses in court doesn't mean they were acting in bad faith or didn't have a legitimate argument behind their case. Paying a reasonable fee for court costs seems fair, not increasing the cost of the penalty. In doing that, you're essentially stripping away a person's constitutional right to confront his accuser by making it too expensive, potentially, to do so if the case results in a loss.

[TurboDan]

I agree with you that defendants should have to appear.  What Cougs did is tantamount to simply buying his way out of the offense.  Yes, it cost more money that it would have cost to pay the fine, but he keeps it off his driving record.

In New Jersey, there's an automatic "buy out" you can use once every three or five, years -- I forget what it is. You can call the local court and simply request it, and they will give it to you. It's very expensive (though less than what Cougs paid) and it carries no points, no "insurance points," no nothing.