C&D 2012 Lightning Lap Results

[TurboDan]

As frame of reference, your LR2 cost roughly the same new, shares parts with a plebeian Ford Mondeo, and offers none of the performance. For 50k, what do you expect?

Meh. The EUCD platform was used for Jags and Volvos that were more expensive, if that is what we're going to go by. Most cars share platforms today in one way or another. Hell, we now have a Benz that shares a platform with a Dodge and a Jeep. And why are we comparing the performance of a Corvette to an SUV anyway? I didn't buy an LR2 to win races - I bought it to pull my boat, drive on the beach and through flood waters because I live on an island. Can the Corvette do any of that stuff? Of course not, they're probably the most opposite motor vehicles can get.

And for the $10K less that the LR2 cost new, they managed to throw in a decent interior. I've never complained about the performance or the exterior design of the 'Vette. It kicks ass in both those categories.

[2o6]

The point I'm trying to get at is that the Vette likely uses more expensive and thought-out technologies, that probably doesn't have much in the way of cost cutting (via sharing with other models) but still turns the performance numbers it does, for merely 50K.

[TurboDan]

The point I'm trying to get at is that the Vette likely uses more expensive and thought-out technologies, that probably doesn't have much in the way of cost cutting (via sharing with other models) but still turns the performance numbers it does, for merely 50K.

I think cost cutting is the whole point of this discussion. They're doing it with the interior. If you consider the word "merely" to be appropriate before the $50K figure, God bless ya, but I consider that a nice chunk of change and would expect a good all-around value for my money. That means the value shouldn't stop under the hood. Just my personal opinion.

[2o6]

I think cost cutting is the whole point of this discussion. They're doing it with the interior. If you consider the word "merely" to be appropriate before the $50K figure, God bless ya, but I consider that a nice chunk of change and would expect a good all-around value for my money. That means the value shouldn't stop under the hood. Just my personal opinion.

50K isn't a lot of money, though.

[TurboDan]

50K isn't a lot of money, though.

For most Americans that's a year's salary.

[GoCougs]

$50k is ~two years' salary (things are bought with after-tax income)...

One thing is certain - a more upscale interior on the C6 would have sucked away technology from elsewhere - no rear mount trans axle? No LS3? No thermo-formed body panels? No welded space frame? Hard to say where it would have come from but it would have had to come from somewhere.

[SVT666]

Oh fuck.  Do you honestly think that a nicer interior would cost ten or fifteen grand?  Give your head a shake.

[CJ]

Oh fuck.  Do you honestly think that a nicer interior would cost ten or fifteen grand?  Give your head a shake.

Perhaps not that much, but it could be several thousand. 

[2o6]

Oh fuck.  Do you honestly think that a nicer interior would cost ten or fifteen grand?  Give your head a shake.

It wouldnt meet the price point of $50k.

[SVT666]

You don't even have to change the molds.  You just have to use better plastics.  I mean, the leather wrapped interior for the Vette is only $5000 or so.  The Cadillac CTS-V costs less than a Z06 and has waaaaaaay more luxury and uses more high tech suspension and drivetrain.

[2o6]

You don't even have to change the molds.  You just have to use better plastics.  I mean, the leather wrapped interior for the Vette is only $5000 or so.  The Cadillac CTS-V costs less than a Z06 and has waaaaaaay more luxury and uses more high tech suspension and drivetrain.

....Which is leveraged all over GM's fleet.

[MrH]

You don't even have to change the molds.  You just have to use better plastics.  I mean, the leather wrapped interior for the Vette is only $5000 or so.  The Cadillac CTS-V costs less than a Z06 and has waaaaaaay more luxury and uses more high tech suspension and drivetrain.

Oh lord....

[68_427]

This should have been a standard color option for the Corvette.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2013-chevrolet-corvette-427-convertible/full/#photo-4745474/

[TurboDan]

....Which is leveraged all over GM's fleet.

So leverage aspects of the Corvette all over the fleet, too. Export some of it to the Camaro, some of it to an XLR replacement, etc.

[Lebowski]

You don't even have to change the molds.  You just have to use better plastics.  I mean, the leather wrapped interior for the Vette is only $5000 or so.  The Cadillac CTS-V costs less than a Z06 and has waaaaaaay more luxury and uses more high tech suspension and drivetrain.

The mistake that you are making throughout your posts here is you are ignoring the the CTS-V ALSO has a shitty interior compared to it's import competition. ALL GM, Ford, and Chrysler products have shitty interiors. So when you say "why can't they fix it like they did with such and such", uh, they didn't "fix" such and such.

Price out a corvette coupe and then option out a well equipped Boxster-S, Cayman-S, M3 etc.  The import cars with the nice import car interiors cost tens of $k more.

[GoCougs]

Oh fuck.  Do you honestly think that a nicer interior would cost ten or fifteen grand?  Give your head a shake.

Uh, it's the incremental cost (as in, LS1 vs. LS2 vs. LS3, fiberglass vs. thermo form body panels, unit-body vs. space frame chassis) of the technology upgrade, not the absolute cost.

[GoCougs]

You don't even have to change the molds.  You just have to use better plastics.  I mean, the leather wrapped interior for the Vette is only $5000 or so.  The Cadillac CTS-V costs less than a Z06 and has waaaaaaay more luxury and uses more high tech suspension and drivetrain.

Uh, plastic type dictates the mold design.

Also, the Z06 has a far more sophisticated chassis and body panel construction and design. I would not be surprised if the LS7 costs as much (or more) than the LSA (getting a pooprod motor to spin 7,000 rpm reliably takes a WHOLE lot of care and feeding).

[SVT666]

The mistake that you are making throughout your posts here is you are ignoring the the CTS-V ALSO has a shitty interior compared to it's import competition. ALL GM, Ford, and Chrysler products have shitty interiors. So when you say "why can't they fix it like they did with such and such", uh, they didn't "fix" such and such.

Price out a corvette coupe and then option out a well equipped Boxster-S, Cayman-S, M3 etc.  The import cars with the nice import car interiors cost tens of $k more.

Have you even been in a new domestic lately?  They are as good or better than the imports in terms of interior quality.  The reason those imports cost more is because of H&H, high tech engines, dual clutch trannies, AND better interiors.  Corvettes wouldn't even sell if GM charged what they should be for a car with that kind of performance because nobody would pay that much for a Vette.  People would never buy a ZR1 if they charged $250,000 like ther cars that are that fast.

[SVT666]

You're nothing but Corvette apologists.

[GoCougs]

I will say this, the C6 is the oldest vehicle in GM's fleet, so it will naturally have the vestiges of the parts bin sharing that has often been subject of great criticism of GM. However, new models debuted since about 2009, that has mostly gone away.

[SVT32V]

Uh, it's the incremental cost (as in, LS1 vs. LS2 vs. LS3, fiberglass vs. thermo form body panels, unit-body vs. space frame chassis) of the technology upgrade, not the absolute cost.

When was the corvette a unit body?

[GoCougs]

When was the corvette a unit body?

C4 was unit body.

[SVT666]

I will say this, the C6 is the oldest vehicle in GM's fleet, so it will naturally have the vestiges of the parts bin sharing that has often been subject of great criticism of GM. However, new models debuted since about 2009, that has mostly gone away.

Now you are starting to show a little sense.  I guarantee GM will put a much nicer interior in the next Vette and the price increase will be minor...unless they start using carbon fiber or something.

[2o6]

So leverage aspects of the Corvette all over the fleet, too. Export some of it to the Camaro, some of it to an XLR replacement, etc.

Upon entry, the C6 is/was unique.

[GoCougs]

Now you are starting to show a little sense.  I guarantee GM will put a much nicer interior in the next Vette and the price increase will be minor...unless they start using carbon fiber or something.

I always show sense; sometimes it takes others time to see it.

A nicer interior in the C6 would have sucked away technology from elsewhere in the car.

[Lebowski]

Now you are starting to show a little sense.  I guarantee GM will put a much nicer interior in the next Vette and the price increase will be minor...unless they start using carbon fiber or something.

I'm sure they will , just as they did with the C6 vs the C5. It will still be vastly inferior to anything from audi, BMW, mb, Porsche etc. I'm ok with that.

[Lebowski]

Corvettes wouldn't even sell if GM charged what they should be for a car with that kind of performance because nobody would pay that much for a Vette.  People would never buy a ZR1 if they charged $250,000 like ther cars that are that fast.

This post only supports what I've been saying. The corvettes most appealing attribute is its value proposition. Good values usually come with compromises - namely you don't get Porsche interior quality at Chevy prices.

I'm not a corvette apologist I just appreciate it for what it is.  When I bought it, no other car offered similar performance and driving experience in a daily drivable package at a comparable price, period. 6 years later that is still the case. The interior has never really bothered me.

[SVT666]

I'm sure they will , just as they did with the C6 vs the C5. It will still be vastly inferior to anything from audi, BMW, mb, Porsche etc. I'm ok with that.

Porsche's interiors aren't that great.  And in a $100,000 car they need to be better.

[SVT666]

This post only supports what I've been saying. The corvettes most appealing attribute is its value proposition. Good values usually come with compromises - namely you don't get Porsche interior quality at Chevy prices.

I'm not a corvette apologist I just appreciate it for what it is.  When I bought it, no other car offered similar performance and driving experience in a daily drivable package at a comparable price, period. 6 years later that is still the case. The interior has never really bothered me.

My point being, Corvette has to be cheaper or no one will buy it.  But that doesn't mean it gets a Playskool interior.  You can't tell me that if Chevy had put a quality interior in the ZR1 that it would have taken any technology away from the rest of the car at all.  It's $100,000 and that additional $50,000 didn't go entirely to a supercharger and magneto shocks.  I don't expect a high quality interior from a $35,000 muscle car that is packing 425 hp and can circle a track as fast as an M3, but I do expect a quality interior in a $50,000+ sports car.  Hell the leather wrapped option for that interior is just $3500 according to GM's website.  Better quality plastics would not cost nearly as much as leather and all the stitching required.

[GoCougs]

My point being, Corvette has to be cheaper or no one will buy it.  But that doesn't mean it gets a Playskool interior.  You can't tell me that if Chevy had put a quality interior in the ZR1 that it would have taken any technology away from the rest of the car at all.  It's $100,000 and that additional $50,000 didn't go entirely to a supercharger and magneto shocks.  I don't expect a high quality interior from a $35,000 muscle car that is packing 425 hp and can circle a track as fast as an M3, but I do expect a quality interior in a $50,000+ sports car.  Hell the leather wrapped option for that interior is just $3500 according to GM's website.  Better quality plastics would not cost nearly as much as leather and all the stitching required.

You keep not answering your own question - why didn't Chevy go with a more upscale interior?