Cali Man Protesting $480 Red Light Cam Tickets

[bing_oh]

Yeah, I'm starting to see it your way. Actually, my town has the system in place where an officer reviews it. However I'm not sure if they're allowed to use discretion in tossing camera tickets they wouldn't have written themselves, or if they simply review if the ticket is legal. I'll have to ask the chief next time I run into him.

Also agree on the courts. Everybody in that damn court room looked like a real loser. Basically every screw-up you knew in high school wouldn't go too far. They all claimed they had "disabilities" and such while begging for mercy from the judge, who pretty much gave in every time. Then there were the guys who were trying to take anger management so their DV charges would get thrown out if they behaved, etc. Felt like taking a shower by the time I left, although it was actually pretty entertaining in some respects.

The thing that got me was the clothing they all wore. Stained sweat pants on the guys, big fat chicks wearing tight tank tops with flab practically falling out, hoodies and ripped jeans on all. Although I did enjoy seeing a scantily-clad lady defense lawyer in her late 20s/early 30s wearing "hooker boots" and showing some cleavage.

I was there to see the case of a pet store owner who was charged with 38 counts of animal cruelty. She was quite the prize, herself.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to give the reviewing officer discretion on whether or not to issue. After all, one of the main components of descretion is the effect of the stop and warning on the driver's behavior. Without the stop and warning, along with the officer's judgement on the driver's reasons and attitude, an after-the-fact warning for a camera violation would have little if any effect.

I can't stand people who dress like slobs to court. It shows a total lack of respect for the court and the proceedings. Our municipal court judge doesn't even make people stand when he comes into the courtroom, permits people to dress like slobs, and is a total pushover...and people respond by having exactly zero respect for the court. It tends to make my job that much tougher because people don't have any fear of the consequences of their actions. If I was judge, I'd demand proper attire in my courtroom and that everyone show proper respect for the proceedings and the institution.

[Byteme]

Now you sound like a conservative and Dan sounds like a liberal.

When it comes to obeying the existing laws I am pretty conservative.  I was taught that if you don't like the law you don't ignore it, you work to change it.  That was called "democracy in action" in the grade school civics books.

And, I was surprised by Dan's position on this.   

[Byteme]

Some cities have gone to a system where an officer IS assigned to review red light camera footage and issue summonses for those violations. That would take away any such "technicalities." And, obviously, if someone claims that they did not commit the violation, they have every right to plea not guilty and force the state to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe it's not a perfect system, but it's really no less perfect than an officer issuing a citation and accusations of bias or human error.

I'd endorse every justidiction using red light cameras doing that.  The red light camera contractors have an incentive to ticket everybody regardless of circumstances

As for those people in jail for failure to pay fines/costs, I wouldn't feel too bad for most of them if I were you. I work in a county where the municipal court judge is known for his extreme leniency. We frequently make jokes about his "payment plans" for fines and costs...a nickel a month for the next 40 years. Yet, I arrest many, many people for failure to pay fines and costs and the vast majority of them are the same people who I see spending their weekends getting totally shitfaced at the bars and getting arrested with various illegal substances in their pockets. It's interesting that they have the money to drink and get high, but can't pay those fines they know they have.

You think that might be because the judge has such lenient payment policies that the guy getting fined doesn't take it seriously?

[Byteme]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to give the reviewing officer discretion on whether or not to issue. After all, one of the main components of descretion is the effect of the stop and warning on the driver's behavior. Without the stop and warning, along with the officer's judgement on the driver's reasons and attitude, an after-the-fact warning for a camera violation would have little if any effect.

I can't stand people who dress like slobs to court. It shows a total lack of respect for the court and the proceedings. Our municipal court judge doesn't even make people stand when he comes into the courtroom, permits people to dress like slobs, and is a total pushover...and people respond by having exactly zero respect for the court. It tends to make my job that much tougher because people don't have any fear of the consequences of their actions. If I was judge, I'd demand proper attire in my courtroom and that everyone show proper respect for the proceedings and the institution.

The town I'm moving to this summer has a dress code sign posted on the courtroom doors.  I rather like that idea.   

[Tave]

That's a terrible idea.


If everyone looks nice, you won't catch a break for not looking like a slob.

[bing_oh]

You think that might be because the judge has such lenient payment policies that the guy getting fined doesn't take it seriously?

I'm sure that's a big contributor to the problem, but alot of these people just don't have any respect for the court or their obligations. These are alot of the same people who frequenly have warrants for failure to city pay income tax and child support.

[bing_oh]

The town I'm moving to this summer has a dress code sign posted on the courtroom doors.  I rather like that idea.   

I think it's a way to force a degree of respect for the court and the proceedings. I've been to plenty of courts with posted dress codes that apply not just to the people involved in the proceedings but for people observing in the gallery. I've seen bailiffs in those courts tell people to take off their hats and spit out gum and seen judges admonish people whose cell phones go off in open court. There has to be a level of respect for the proceedings taking place.

[Byteme]

I'm sure that's a big contributor to the problem, but alot of these people just don't have any respect for the court or their obligations. These are alot of the same people who frequenly have warrants for failure to city pay income tax and child support.

Well, if they would let you pick them up and work them over a bit with your nightstick or rubber hose they might gain a bit more respect for the law.   I'm joking about that, but the problem is we've taken measures to take the pain out of punishment.  And I don't mean physical pain.

[bing_oh]

Well, if they would let you pick them up and work them over a bit with your nightstick or rubber hose they might gain a bit more respect for the law.   I'm joking about that, but the problem is we've taken measures to take the pain out of punishment.  And I don't mean physical pain.

Oh, I totally agree. It's kinda interesting that you mention "old school" policing where physical abuse was much more common, yet there are dramatically more complaints about use of force today and many people complain about how police officers are so much meaner today. It seems like a contradiction until you realize that things like personal responsability and consequences have been removed from much of today's society.

[850CSi]

The town I'm moving to this summer has a dress code sign posted on the courtroom doors.  I rather like that idea.   

We don't have dress codes, but where I work you'll get bitched out by a bailiff if your shirt isn't tucked in when you're speaking to the judge.

[J86]

Every time I see the title of this thread I read "Collie Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziNx7V1iA2Y

[TurboDan]

Every time I see the title of this thread I read "Collie Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziNx7V1iA2Y

I liked Collie Buddz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1c6fRuyqs

[sparkplug]

Oh, I totally agree. It's kinda interesting that you mention "old school" policing where physical abuse was much more common, yet there are dramatically more complaints about use of force today and many people complain about how police officers are so much meaner today. It seems like a contradiction until you realize that things like personal responsability and consequences have been removed from much of today's society.

People have no idea what a mean police officer is. Police are held up to a higher standard these days, thanks to in car camera's, and microphones. I think at times police lose their temper. They may not be mean, just at times stressed out. Being a policeman can't kill you in more than one way. The stress on that job just show the double standard of society.

[TurboDan]

People have no idea what a mean police officer is. Police are held up to a higher standard these days, thanks to in car camera's, and microphones. I think at times police lose their temper. They may not be mean, just at times stressed out. Being a policeman can't kill you in more than one way. The stress on that job just show the double standard of society.

In today's climate, the dashcams protect the cops more often than the perps.

[bing_oh]

In today's climate, the dashcams protect the cops more often than the perps.

That's true. I can't count the number of times dashcam videos have exonerated officers in my area of bogus complaints.

[dazzleman]

That's true. I can't count the number of times dashcam videos have exonerated officers in my area of bogus complaints.

I like that.  I always believed most complaints were bogus, and it's good to have proof of that.  There is a special place in hell for people who make false accusations of any type, IMO.

[Onslaught]

Our city had red light cameras. Then people found out that most of the money they paid in tickets went to the company that put them up and not the city/state. All of them are gone now.

[dazzleman]

Our city had red light cameras. Then people found out that most of the money they paid in tickets went to the company that put them up and not the city/state. All of them are gone now.

I think that revenue collection should be a side effect of any traffic enforcement, not the primary motivator.

[Xer0]

I think that revenue collection should be a side effect of any traffic enforcement, not the primary motivator.

With cities bleeding and costs going up, bureaucrats will be looking at everything that can make a few bucks.