Porsche 991 GT3 may come with PDK only (Yea!!)

[Eye of the Tiger]

What's FOG?

Fresh Off the _______?

Fat old guys? 

[LonghornTX]

Why do you guys think there are so many poser GT3 owners out there?  There's tons of FOGs out there driving Turbos, but GT3s?  They don't even sell that many.

The miata is a totally different car and different market.  Talk about apples to oranges, yeesh.

You're confusing me for someone else; I never said anything about poser GT3 owners. Everyone I know that has one or has had one in the past is definitely an enthusiast.

The Miata is a totally different car yes, but the type of person who would buy one is not much different from the type that would buy a GT3, save for income of course. And the fact is, they are focused cars to the point of being irrelevant to most buyers. Their purpose is to serve as a sports and not much else. So my question stands...what would happen if they made the Miata DCT only?

[AltinD]

So my question stands...what would happen if they made the Miata DCT only?

It will be more expensive and heavier, selling less.

[giant_mtb]

I don't get the elitism surrounding being able to drive stick... I just started driving stick again for the first time in 3 or 4 months a few days ago and I was heel toe downshifting without thinking at the first stop sign...

It's not exactly a hard to learn skill.

There's a big difference between skill retention and skill learning.  And yeah, I think that with proper practice, pretty much anybody could learn to drive a stick...but there's also a big difference between learning how to do it and learning how to do it well/properly. 

[giant_mtb]

Fat old guys? 

Clouds of little water droplets suspended low over the earth's surface?

[sportyaccordy]

There's a big difference between skill retention and skill learning.  And yeah, I think that with proper practice, pretty much anybody could learn to drive a stick...but there's also a big difference between learning how to do it and learning how to do it well/properly. 

What is the difference on the street?

[giant_mtb]

What is the difference on the street?

None, from a purely "empirical" standpoint, I guess, in the idea that "well, if both cars pull away from the stop light, who cares which one of the drivers is better at driving a stick?"  But on the other hand, people who drive a stick poorly (lots of clutch slipping, etc.) may run into issues much sooner than those who take more care in it as far as the condition of their car (well, transmission) goes.

[sportyaccordy]

None, from a purely "empirical" standpoint, I guess, in the idea that "well, if both cars pull away from the stop light, who cares which one of the drivers is better at driving a stick?"  But on the other hand, people who drive a stick poorly (lots of clutch slipping, etc.) may run into issues much sooner than those who take more care in it as far as the condition of their car (well, transmission) goes.

I think the % of folks who drive stick poorly are slim to none. Like you said, if you are bad at driving stick, you will damage the car. You damage a car, you have to pay to fix it. Why repeat the cycle? Folks like that get a stickshift car once and never do it again.

The proliferation of stickshift in Europe across genders + levels of empirical driving skill & enthusiasm is proof enough that driving stick well (if well = well enough to not put undue stress or damage on a car) is not magical. Like I said my mom drove stick for years and was decent enough at it, and she is not a great driver or enthusiast. Wimmer is not a speed demon or enthusiast in the traditional sense and he drives stickshift just fine. Most cars in the third world are stickshift (and I would say anyone whose driven through a third world roundabout and lived is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most American drivers). So driving stick doesn't exactly put one in exclusive company.

[giant_mtb]

I think the % of folks who drive stick poorly are slim to none. Like you said, if you are bad at driving stick, you will damage the car. You damage a car, you have to pay to fix it. Why repeat the cycle? Folks like that get a stickshift car once and never do it again.

The proliferation of stickshift in Europe across genders + levels of empirical driving skill & enthusiasm is proof enough that driving stick well (if well = well enough to not put undue stress or damage on a car) is not magical. Like I said my mom drove stick for years and was decent enough at it, and she is not a great driver or enthusiast. Wimmer is not a speed demon or enthusiast in the traditional sense and he drives stickshift just fine. Most cars in the third world are stickshift (and I would say anyone whose driven through a third world roundabout and lived is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most American drivers). So driving stick doesn't exactly put one in exclusive company.

Can't say I really ever said otherwise.   My main point was in response to r0tor's post.  That is, retaining/remembering a skill is very different from learning that skill.  The rest of the stuff you and I have said in succession is painfully obvious.

[hotrodalex]

A Miata is a completely different kind of car than a GT3. Miata's are about having fun and being one with the car, not ripping up the track. A GT3 can use a DCT to its advantage on the track, but a Miata isn't hampered by slow shifting as much as its lack of power.

[SVT666]

Dumbest CarSPIN Arguments Ever!

1. Pushrods vs. OHC
2. Sports Cars vs. GT
3. Flappy Paddles vs. Stick

[Raza]

Dumbest CarSPIN Arguments Ever!

1. Pushrods vs. OHC
2. Sports Cars vs. GT
3. Flappy Paddles vs. Stick

2 out 3 for me.  However, sports car shouldn't even be an argument.  It might was well be "sedan vs. SUV', people are just douches about GT cars being called GT cars.

[SVT666]

You're right, it shouldn't be an argument since every single definition I have seen (including the FIA) states a sports car has an open top or fixed roof.  Only you and ChrisV say otherwise.  Those three arguments I listed are fucking stupid arguments.

[LonghornTX]

I think the % of folks who drive stick poorly are slim to none. Like you said, if you are bad at driving stick, you will damage the car. You damage a car, you have to pay to fix it. Why repeat the cycle? Folks like that get a stickshift car once and never do it again.

The proliferation of stickshift in Europe across genders + levels of empirical driving skill & enthusiasm is proof enough that driving stick well (if well = well enough to not put undue stress or damage on a car) is not magical. Like I said my mom drove stick for years and was decent enough at it, and she is not a great driver or enthusiast. Wimmer is not a speed demon or enthusiast in the traditional sense and he drives stickshift just fine. Most cars in the third world are stickshift (and I would say anyone whose driven through a third world roundabout and lived is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most American drivers). So driving stick doesn't exactly put one in exclusive company.

There are plenty of people in Europe that seemingly drive stick all the time and still aren't great at it...ever taken a taxi over there?

[LonghornTX]

A Miata is a completely different kind of car than a GT3. Miata's are about having fun and being one with the car, not ripping up the track. A GT3 can use a DCT to its advantage on the track, but a Miata isn't hampered by slow shifting as much as its lack of power.

For its price point, I would argue that a Miata fulfills a pretty similar role to the GT3 for the average sports car buyer. Besides, the GT3 is not really the track car of the lineup as much as the RS is. Both cars (the Miata and the GT3) are always going to be substantially different in how much different they cost. However, both cars are renowned by enthusiasts for their relative simplicity and connection to the driver. They are also two of the most frequently raced platforms out there.

[68_427]

A diecast comapny may have just leaked the GT3 RS.  Holy shit if it looks like this...

[12,000 RPM]

Looks like a 997 to me.

O and for the record, after having driven a 458 and GT-R on the track, as well as having spent close to a year in my Z, stickshift please. PDK makes sense for a pure track/race car but stickshift on the street is way more satisfying. And learning to heel n toe is not that difficult.

[68_427]

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/01/porsche-911-gt3-rs-patent-photos/

[Tave]

I think the % of folks who drive stick poorly are slim to none. Like you said, if you are bad at driving stick, you will damage the car. You damage a car, you have to pay to fix it. Why repeat the cycle? Folks like that get a stickshift car once and never do it again.

The proliferation of stickshift in Europe across genders + levels of empirical driving skill & enthusiasm is proof enough that driving stick well (if well = well enough to not put undue stress or damage on a car) is not magical. Like I said my mom drove stick for years and was decent enough at it, and she is not a great driver or enthusiast. Wimmer is not a speed demon or enthusiast in the traditional sense and he drives stickshift just fine. Most cars in the third world are stickshift (and I would say anyone whose driven through a third world roundabout and lived is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most American drivers). So driving stick doesn't exactly put one in exclusive company.

"Decent enough at it" probably describes most people I know who drive or have driven stick but aren't very interested in cars.

Lots of clutch riding (especially in first gear), semi-smooth-to-slightly-clunky shifts, no real feel for controlling engine speed by downshifting, hard downshifts, etc...

It's not damage per se, just wearing out the clutch faster than someone who is more competent with a manual. And of course the experience of riding with a skilled vs. unskilled driver is night and day. If I'm lurching forwards or backwards with every shift, I'm probably not a very comfortable/happy passenger.