Are big SUVs on their way out?

[Eye of the Tiger]

A V8 is a V8. 

No.

Cougs is right, as usual. A V8 is actually a four-row, 24-cylinder radial engine with the bottom 2/3rds of the cylinders chopped off.

[GoCougs]

So how exactly did SUV haterism devolve into minivan haterism??? And as if the former weren't enough of a de-evolution. Some of you guys need a hobby to burn off this angst.

[Colonel Cadillac]

That was against the mid-range 5.0L V8.

Yes, exactly; the V8 that is most similar to the EcoBoost V6 in power and price. The V8 has 360 HP and 380 lb. ft. of torque. The EcoBoost V6 has 365 HP and 420 lb. ft. of torque. The EcoBoost is around $1000 more, according to cnn.money.com. 

[Rupert]

I hate them.  I can't tell you how seldom I've seen a lumbering Armada, Suburban, Excursion or whatever carrying a load or going off road.  Well, maybe I can tell you about the off road; never.

The sooner those oversized dinosaurs die off the better.

Never? Is that maybe because you never go off road yourself? I see tons and tons of big SUVs going off road around here. Of course, I'm usually also off road at the time in my own SUV.

[Rupert]

And you can slide that new clothes washer in the side door with much less lifting involve than a truck.  (impossible in an SUV)

I moved a washer and a dryer in the back of a Volvo 145 once. Also a huge full-size couch. If you can't fit a single washer in the back of your mid-size SUV, you aren't trying hard enough.

[GoCougs]

Yes, exactly; the V8 that is most similar to the EcoBoost V6 in power and price. The V8 has 360 HP and 380 lb. ft. of torque. The EcoBoost V6 has 365 HP and 420 lb. ft. of torque. The EcoBoost is around $1000 more, according to cnn.money.com.  

The 6.2L V8 is the better comparison (and the better motor).

[CJ]

The 6.2L V8 is the better comparison (and the better motor).

The 6.2 is also $2,000 more expensive than the Ecoboost and doesn't get near the gas mileage.  It gets, what, 5 MPG less?  That's significant.

[CJ]

Plus, you can only get the 6.2 on 3 trim levels.  Platinum, Harley Davidson, and Raptor.

[GoCougs]

Again, if you or any buyer like SVT666's neighbor thinks the EB gets better MPG than the 6.2L, you're letting yourself get sold a big ole tasty bottle of snake oil.

[GoCougs]

Plus, you can only get the 6.2 on 3 trim levels.  Platinum, Harley Davidson, and Raptor.

Check again.

[CJ]

Check again.

What do you think I've been doing?  I didn't post that until I checked my facts.  Go build an F150 on Ford's website and you'll find exactly what I did. 

[Byteme]

LOL
With our first child we had a 80s Taurus. The infant seats seriously are ginormous- it barely fit in the middle of the back seat and we couldn't put it in our 83 Civic. At all.

And yes we got a minivan when wifey was pregnant with #2. When #3 was imminent family gave us a 2-kid stroller, it didn't fit in the back of the minivan. Ended up with TWO minivans for about a year or so.

Part of the pleasure is keeping the kids in different rows- none of that "he's on my side" crap.  

AND we can put 3 bikes and a bike trailer inside our minivan, while still carrying 5 people. And getting better gas mileage than a truck or SUV.  And we've moved our entire house with nothing but minivans. And you can slide that new clothes washer in the side door with much less lifting involve than a truck.  (impossible in an SUV)

When we had our first we had a Probe.  The car seat fit in the back as did the kid. Trouble was it was killing our backs to get him in and out of it.  We bought a 91 Taurus and everything was just fine.  Plenty of room there.

[SVT32V]

LOL
With our first child we had a 80s Taurus. The infant seats seriously are ginormous- it barely fit in the middle of the back seat and we couldn't put it in our 83 Civic. At all.

And yes we got a minivan when wifey was pregnant with #2. When #3 was imminent family gave us a 2-kid stroller, it didn't fit in the back of the minivan. Ended up with TWO minivans for about a year or so.

Part of the pleasure is keeping the kids in different rows- none of that "he's on my side" crap. 

AND we can put 3 bikes and a bike trailer inside our minivan, while still carrying 5 people. And getting better gas mileage than a truck or SUV.  And we've moved our entire house with nothing but minivans. And you can slide that new clothes washer in the side door with much less lifting involve than a truck.  (impossible in an SUV)

I don't know sho, I had 2 britax top of the line car seats in the back of an SN-95 mustang and they fit, I am not buying it not fitting in a taurus.

Now that minivans have gotten bigger an more powerful their mpg is barely better than an SUV, for instance a sienna v6 gets 19/24 vs a new 4runner with 17/23. Better but not by much, they are all fat pigs.

But yes marginally better gas mileage, but not as good as a family sedan such as a camry or charger that could fit three kids in the back comfortably and still get 30 mpg.

Seems rather silly to carry around all that weight so kids can have their own row.

[cawimmer430]

Diesel is significantly more expensive in the US (think premium or above), the marginal increase in gas mileage would have to overcome the added cost of the diesel engine and the added fuel cost. The ecoboost engine is not lacking in the torque dept., hauling or acceleration.

Weird how diesel is priced higher than gasoline. AFAIK diesel is a halfway step in oil refining between crude oil and gasoline. It should be cheaper than gasoline in terms of pricing.

[SVT32V]

Weird how diesel is priced higher than gasoline. AFAIK diesel is a halfway step in oil refining between crude oil and gasoline. It should be cheaper than gasoline in terms of pricing.

The official US govt reasons diesel is higher:

Historically, the average price of diesel fuel used in motor vehicles has been lower than the price of regular gasoline. However, this is not always the case. In some winters where the demand for distillate heating oil is high, the price of diesel fuel has risen above the gasoline price (in many rural areas people use something similar to diesel as fuel for their furnace instead of natural gas). Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons:
High worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils, especially in Europe, China and the U.S. and a tight global refining capacity available to meet demand.
The transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel in the U.S., which is affecting diesel fuel production and distribution costs.
The Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents per gallon higher (at 24.4 cents/gallon) than the tax on gasoline.


On the other hand, diesel in europe is taxed less than gasoline, or that is at least what I have read.

[SVT666]

I don't know sho, I had 2 britax top of the line car seats in the back of an SN-95 mustang and they fit, I am not buying it not fitting in a taurus.

Now that minivans have gotten bigger an more powerful their mpg is barely better than an SUV, for instance a sienna v6 gets 19/24 vs a new 4runner with 17/23. Better but not by much, they are all fat pigs.

But yes marginally better gas mileage, but not as good as a family sedan such as a camry or charger that could fit three kids in the back comfortably and still get 30 mpg.

Seems rather silly to carry around all that weight so kids can have their own row.

I don't know how long ago you had kids, but the car seats these days much bigger.  Some jurisdictions, like Canada, require that the car seat face rearward for the first year.  We couldn't get our car seats to fit in an Oldmobile Alero sedan without sliding the passenger seat all the way forward and having my wife sit in the back.  Before we had a second kid, we had to get a new car because we wouldn't have been able to go anywhere in the same vehicle.  We bought a Ford Freestyle and even then, it was a very tight fit.  Our double stroller fills the cargo area of our Explorer and thankfully we don't need to use it anymore. 

[Cookie Monster]

Damn, my car seat was like half the size of that and there was no law saying it had to be put backwards, so there was never any problems fitting it into my dad's '86 Corolla.

I grew up in two tiny cars: an '86 Corolla and an '83 Mazda GLC. I guess with these massive new car seats, bigger cars are required.

[GoCougs]

What do you think I've been doing?  I didn't post that until I checked my facts.  Go build an F150 on Ford's website and you'll find exactly what I did. 

You missed the Lariat.

[SVT666]

Damn, my car seat was like half the size of that and there was no law saying it had to be put backwards, so there was never any problems fitting it into my dad's '86 Corolla.

I grew up in two tiny cars: an '86 Corolla and an '83 Mazda GLC. I guess with these massive new car seats, bigger cars are required.

That's what those of us in the know have been saying for years now.

[Colonel Cadillac]

The 6.2L V8 is the better comparison (and the better motor).

...Why?

[SVT32V]

I don't know how long ago you had kids, but the car seats these days much bigger.  Some jurisdictions, like Canada, require that the car seat face rearward for the first year.  

My kids are 5 and 8, when young the seat was reversed.
This was the seat for the youngest (although there were two of these in the back at one time, one facing forward, the other back):



For the older


We have been through this, you say it can't be done, I did it. Was it optimal, no. I should mention that my kids were always on the large part of the growth charts and my wife is tall, but very slim.

[AutobahnSHO]

You missed the infant seats that are also the carrier that go onto the stroller. They're hella long.

I don't argue that you COULD do it in a sedan. we like the space. And I get 21mpg mixed city driving in our Sienna.  25+ on the highway. (Wife gets 19mpg mixed city. She doesn't anticipate traffic very well.)

[AutobahnSHO]

I moved a washer and a dryer in the back of a Volvo 145 once. Also a huge full-size couch. If you can't fit a single washer in the back of your mid-size SUV, you aren't trying hard enough.

Washer or Dryer Standing up? 

[CJ]

You missed the Lariat.

Whoops.  It's only a $7,000 option.  No big deal. 

[Rupert]

Washer or Dryer Standing up? 

Nope, but who needs to do that?

[AutobahnSHO]

Nope, but who needs to do that?

It doesnt' spill water all over your vehicle that way.    

[Byteme]

Never? Is that maybe because you never go off road yourself? I see tons and tons of big SUVs going off road around here. Of course, I'm usually also off road at the time in my own SUV.

Never had a reason to. 

Of course you will see them off road if you run with the minority crowd that actually dioes that.  That would have been like me saying I saw tons and tons of E-types on the weekends.  Well yeah, since I was competing in concours.

Tons and tons of SUVs going off road could be just one or two given how bloated and overweight they are.   

My point was only a small percentage of SUV's with the capability to go off road are actually used in that manner.  Most are relegated to the lady of the house taking shopping trips to the mall.

[SVT32V]

You missed the infant seats that are also the carrier that go onto the stroller. They're hella long.

I don't argue that you COULD do it in a sedan. we like the space. And I get 21mpg mixed city driving in our Sienna.  25+ on the highway. (Wife gets 19mpg mixed city. She doesn't anticipate traffic very well.)

Hey sho, of course there was an infant seat before that that fit into our Combi stroller (that folded up to a very small footprit), it also saw duty for each of the kids and exclusively in the cobra and 2 dr wrangler.

Minivans are heavy as hell, if you can get 25 in a minivan you could do much better in a family sedan. But hey, if you want a minivan for the extra room that is your choice, they are hardly a necessity just like most SUVs and are only incrementally better than a modern SUV.

[TurboDan]

Never had a reason to. 

Of course you will see them off road if you run with the minority crowd that actually dioes that.  That would have been like me saying I saw tons and tons of E-types on the weekends.  Well yeah, since I was competing in concours.

Tons and tons of SUVs going off road could be just one or two given how bloated and overweight they are.   

My point was only a small percentage of SUV's with the capability to go off road are actually used in that manner.  Most are relegated to the lady of the house taking shopping trips to the mall.

Depends where you live, methinks. Around here, everyone takes their SUVs on the beach when they go fishing or just for a drive along the water. We also have the pine barrens in NJ where off-roading is extremely popular. I would assume if one lives in a more urban environment, off-roading isn't something many people would be interested in.

[ifcar]

Hey sho, of course there was an infant seat before that that fit into our Combi stroller (that folded up to a very small footprit), it also saw duty for each of the kids and exclusively in the cobra and 2 dr wrangler.

Minivans are heavy as hell, if you can get 25 in a minivan you could do much better in a family sedan. But hey, if you want a minivan for the extra room that is your choice, they are hardly a necessity just like most SUVs and are only incrementally better than a modern SUV.

Minivans are either much roomier than an SUV with comparable fuel economy or much more efficient than the SUVs with that come closest to their space.