Are big SUVs on their way out?

[cawimmer430]

On the other hand, diesel in europe is taxed less than gasoline, or that is at least what I have read.

Diesel fuel is cheaper but diesel cars are also taxed higher than comparable gasoline cars: much higher. So the only reason to get a diesel car is if you need the gas mileage and driver over a certain mileage per year (on average 15,000 km+).

Even so, many people who don't drive 15,000 km+ a year still opt for a diesel car and will pay the higher taxes on their diesel car.

[SVT32V]

Minivans are either much roomier than an SUV with comparable fuel economy or much more efficient than the SUVs with that come closest to their space.

Obviously, as well it should be with minivan utilitarian design, but is there really a prize for having the most room? Most midsize SUVs can easily haul 7 people, especially children. Most minivans can haul 7-8 people, especially children.

Most minivans suffer from poor traction in inclement weather and lack the strength/durability to tow anything of sizable mass.

Each has their strong points and weak points, neither is all that necessary for a small family. They are both for luxury, either space (minivan) or capability (SUV).

[ifcar]

Many midsize SUVs can hold seven people, but not too many can also hold any decent amount of cargo at the same time. Minivans have more space behind the third row than some midsize SUVs have behind their middle row.

[SVT32V]

Many midsize SUVs can hold seven people, but not too many can also hold any decent amount of cargo at the same time. Minivans have more space behind the third row than some midsize SUVs have behind their middle row.

Like I said, is there a prize for having the most space per chassis?

[ifcar]

Like I said, is there a prize for having the most space per chassis?

Is there a prize for not doing so?

[SVT32V]

Is there a prize for not doing so?

Not that I know of, so we have established there is no prize for maximum space and no prize for not having maximum space.

[AutobahnSHO]

Obviously, as well it should be with minivan utilitarian design, but is there really a prize for having the most room? Most midsize SUVs can easily haul 7 people, especially children. Most minivans can haul 7-8 people, especially children.
Most minivans suffer from poor traction in inclement weather and lack the strength/durability to tow anything of sizable mass.
Each has their strong points and weak points, neither is all that necessary for a small family. They are both for luxury, either space (minivan) or capability (SUV).

Agree that we don't NEED a minivan, it's nice to have the room whenever we want.
Comparable sized SUVs are all RWD, aren't they? FWD is better for snow/rain. I would buy an AWD minivan if I could though.

Again, I have nothing against SUVs- IF you're offroad or towing crap. But most people don't. So they really would be better off with the handling and gas economy of a minivan. But the stigmata associated  with minivans is unfair and lame..

[Rupert]

It doesnt' spill water all over your vehicle that way.    

I did not have that problem.

[Rupert]

Never had a reason to. 

Of course you will see them off road if you run with the minority crowd that actually dioes that.  That would have been like me saying I saw tons and tons of E-types on the weekends.  Well yeah, since I was competing in concours.

Tons and tons of SUVs going off road could be just one or two given how bloated and overweight they are.   

My point was only a small percentage of SUV's with the capability to go off road are actually used in that manner.  Most are relegated to the lady of the house taking shopping trips to the mall.

Right... If you've never been off road, the only place you would expect to see a vehicle off road, then of course you've never seen an SUV off road. That's a pretty lame argument, and it's the one you used, so

I'm not really disagreeing with you that a lot of SUVs never leave pavement, but c'mon; I've never seen a wolverine, therefore they don't exist is a pretty dumb thing to say.

[TurboDan]

Right... If you've never been off road, the only place you would expect to see a vehicle off road, then of course you've never seen an SUV off road. That's a pretty lame argument, and it's the one you used, so

I'm not really disagreeing with you that a lot of SUVs never leave pavement, but c'mon; I've never seen a wolverine, therefore they don't exist is a pretty dumb thing to say.

Agreed. Come to my town this weekend. You could get run over on the beach with all of the SUVs that'll be roaming around carrying anglers from fishing spot to fishing spot.

A few weeks from now, a bunch of us are taking our SUVs to do a beach cleanup in a Wildlife Management Area. Tons of people are signing up on Facebook to come out and help. Off-roading is as popular as ever around here, at least. It's one of the reasons I decided to get my current vehicle instead of a 3er. I wanted to take part in all of the cool things that tons of people are doing with their SUVs!

[Byteme]

Right... If you've never been off road, the only place you would expect to see a vehicle off road, then of course you've never seen an SUV off road. That's a pretty lame argument, and it's the one you used, so

I'm not really disagreeing with you that a lot of SUVs never leave pavement, but c'mon; I've never seen a wolverine, therefore they don't exist is a pretty dumb thing to say.

Well, if you want to talk lame let's explore reading skills.  You'll note that in my first post I said "off road", not "never leave pavement".  "Never leave pavement" is a phrase from your hands, not mine.  

If you are going to attack someone it's always nice to attack what they actually write, not what you think or wished they wrote.

And I stand my my contention that most aren't used off road.  And I don't consider going down a gravel road or onto a sandy parking area on a public beach as off road.

The industry believes that no more than about 15% are used off road.   For Land Rover it's about 4%   Jeep is the highest, as one would expect.

[ChrisV]

If we bought based on absolute need, we'd still live in grass roof mud huts with outdoor plumbing and no computers. If you're living on more than that, you have nothing to say to someone who is using a slight bit more than you.

Fuck "need."

[Byteme]

If we bought based on absolute need, we'd still live in grass roof mud huts with outdoor plumbing and no computers. If you're living on more than that, you have nothing to say to someone who is using a slight bit more than you.

Fuck "need."

   I don't recall anyone mentioning the word "need". 

[ifcar]

If we bought based on absolute need, we'd still live in grass roof mud huts with outdoor plumbing and no computers. If you're living on more than that, you have nothing to say to someone who is using a slight bit more than you.

Fuck "need."

I'll remember this next time you mention driving cars with no safety features or no rear visibility and not accepting what all the fuss is about.

[AutobahnSHO]

  And I don't consider going down a gravel road or onto a sandy parking area on a public beach as off road.

The dude with the tow truck that pulls all the non-SUVs off the NC Outer Banks beach disagrees with you. My minivan disagrees, too.

[Byteme]

The dude with the tow truck that pulls all the non-SUVs off the NC Outer Banks beach disagrees with you. My minivan disagrees, too.

Ah, I didn't say deep loose sand, I said a sandy parking area.  

In my younger days I spent a lot of time driving on Florida and Galveston beaches in a Charger and later a Pinto.  I never got stuck.  It's a matter of knowing how far you can push it and how to keep from getting bogged down in the first place.

[AutobahnSHO]

  It's a matter of knowing how far you can push it and how to keep from getting bogged down in the first place.

Most Americans couldn't drive their way out of a giant wet paper bag.

[Rupert]

Well, if you want to talk lame let's explore reading skills.  You'll note that in my first post I said "off road", not "never leave pavement".  "Never leave pavement" is a phrase from your hands, not mine.  

If you are going to attack someone it's always nice to attack what they actually write, not what you think or wished they wrote.

And I stand my my contention that most aren't used off road.  And I don't consider going down a gravel road or onto a sandy parking area on a public beach as off road.

The industry believes that no more than about 15% are used off road.   For Land Rover it's about 4%   Jeep is the highest, as one would expect.

And if you had any reading skills, you'd note that I agreed with your point. It's your argument that's dumb.

They don't have cars in Chile. I know because I've never been to Chile and I've never seen cars there.

[TurboDan]

Ah, I didn't say deep loose sand, I said a sandy parking area.  

In my younger days I spent a lot of time driving on Florida and Galveston beaches in a Charger and later a Pinto.  I never got stuck.  It's a matter of knowing how far you can push it and how to keep from getting bogged down in the first place.

Around here, you need to air down to 10psi before even thinking about hitting the sand. We have extremely soft, loose sand on our beaches.

Having lived in Florida, the sand there is much easier for driving, which makes me want to live there even more.

[Byteme]

Most Americans couldn't drive their way out of a giant wet paper bag.

There is no way anyone can dispute that.   

[Byteme]

Around here, you need to air down to 10psi before even thinking about hitting the sand. We have extremely soft, loose sand on our beaches.

Having lived in Florida, the sand there is much easier for driving, which makes me want to live there even more.

The sand in the Pensacola area is pretty soft and snow white - it reminds people of loose sugar, but I don't know how it compares with your area.  Galveston is hard packed unless you get near the occasional dune or at the waterline.   I know Galveston, and I think Pensacola, has pretty much banned driving on the beaches anyway, except in designated parking areas.   

[Byteme]

And if you had any reading skills, you'd note that I agreed with your point. It's your argument that's dumb.

They don't have cars in Chile. I know because I've never been to Chile and I've never seen cars there.

Nah, they've got them.  I've seen them on TV.  They all could have been photo shopped though.   

[ifcar]

Most Americans couldn't drive their way out of a giant wet paper bag.

Personally, I've never tried.

[Colonel Cadillac]

The sand in the Pensacola area is pretty soft and snow white - it reminds people of loose sugar, but I don't know how it compares with your area.  Galveston is hard packed unless you get near the occasional dune or at the waterline.   I know Galveston, and I think Pensacola, has pretty much banned driving on the beaches anyway, except in designated parking areas.    

The "beach" in Grande Isle, Louisiana is super packed mud/sand combination. There's very little give when you walk on it. It was a wonderful opportunity to test out Quattro and do a lil bit of drifting and donuts

[AutobahnSHO]

Personally, I've never tried.

Me neither. Maybe we should build the world's largest wet paper bag and see if an average american could get out of it..

[TurboDan]

The "beach" in Grande Isle, Louisiana is super packed mud/sand combination. There's very little give when you walk on it. It was a wonderful opportunity to test out Quattro and do a lil bit of drifting and donuts

I'd still let some air out of the tires. Also, use tiptronic and keep your momentum up.