"Oh what a feeling!" (2o6's Yaris)

[Eye of the Tiger]

Somebody has never heard of PWM.

[Soup DeVille]

Somebody has never heard of PWM.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many radiator fans are using pulse-width modulation.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many radiator fans are using pulse-width modulation.

Maybe they should.

[GoCougs]

You could not be more wrong. You could try to be, but you would fail.

Very interested in seeing 15+ years of servo/robotic/machine design/programming experience and education being upended...

[93JC]

So I've gone back and looked at a few of 2o6's posts for the lulz.

A fuse blowing is indicative of one of two problems:

1) a short
2) a mechanical problem causing overload

If the fan has worn bearings it would cause the motor to draw more current, causing the fuse to blow.

A fuse is (almost) NEVER the SOURCE of a problem, it's the RESULT.

[Eye of the Tiger]

So I've gone back and looked at a few of 2o6's posts for the lulz.

A fuse blowing is indicative of one of two problems:

1) a short
2) a mechanical problem causing overload

If the fan has worn bearings it would cause the motor to draw more current, causing the fuse to blow.

A fuse is (almost) NEVER the SOURCE of a problem, it's the RESULT.

Solution: put a bigger fuse in 

[GoCougs]

Somebody has never heard of PWM.

DC motors' IIT-relevant electro-mechanical characteristics (RPM proportional to voltage, torque proportional to current) are the same whether on straight DC or (proper for a DC motor) PWM waveform.

[2o6]

Very interested in seeing 15+ years of servo/robotic/machine design/programming experience and education being upended...

I really don't care; this statement is a blatant ad-homenim statement and is really based upon hearsay. What you're saying doesn't make any sense in a modern car, especially when the problem has already been said over and over again.

Warranty service is only a portion of what a dealer does.

Nah, I just know way more than you do, in particular, about the basics of DC circuits and motors in general.

Honestly, I don't care. The statement in bold is hearsay; there is no possible way you could know the percentage of repairs are warranty that dealers do.





Let's take it to the most basic level I can think of: When the charging system is turning out too much power, it will blow stuff up. Why cougs, is nothing else on my car blown if the charging system has a problem with overcharging?

[2o6]

So I've gone back and looked at a few of 2o6's posts for the lulz.

A fuse blowing is indicative of one of two problems:

1) a short
2) a mechanical problem causing overload

If the fan has worn bearings it would cause the motor to draw more current, causing the fuse to blow.

A fuse is (almost) NEVER the SOURCE of a problem, it's the RESULT.

I haven't ruled it out, not without a doubt. But the dealer told me that no power was reaching the fan.

[Soup DeVille]

Very interested in seeing 15+ years of servo/robotic/machine design/programming experience and education being upended...

You know when a guy tells me what he's done instead of backing his shit up, I just stop listening.

You increase the voltage to the fan, it speeds up, but its not a linear transition like you're implying. The amp draw does does not just stay the same.

Plus, if you find a circuit on any modern car that is a pure DC motor circuit and nothing else, tell me.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You know when a guy tells me what he's done instead of backing his shit up, I just stop listening.

You increase the voltage to the fan, it speeds up, but it's not a linear transition like you're implying. The amp draw does does not just stay the same.

Plus, if you find a circuit on any modern car that is a pure DC motor circuit and nothing else, tell me.

[2o6]

See? I post one stupid thing, and you guys are twisting my words



Facts:

Dealer mechanic says the fan is dead (he says he cannot get any response in the code reader to start the fan) Tries to bill me for associated hardware, including some redundancies in the quote

Dealer mechanic says the fan has more drag than normal (I don't think this is true; in comparison to the new fan I bought it has the same amount of drag; car spins old fan up with no trouble)

Dealer mechanic orders every part piece by piece (I found the unit for $90 new in box) writes quote me outrageous charge for a thing that literally clips to the back of the radiatior. Literally two things are in the way; upper radiator hose and a hose for the airbox.

Dealer mechanic says that there is no power going to the fan (but as I found out didn't do anything to check the fuses)

Possibly, come to think of it, the cooling fan may have never been working since I bought the car. However, since I don't have a conventional temperature gauge I never really knew if it was heating up too hot or not (until the temp light came on) car ran fine, had no reason to believe otherwise

AC compressor has the cooling fan running all the time. AC on, no fan. Now the fan works just fine....at least for now.



Even if the blown fuse is a result of something else (a short, bad fan) the dealer didn't do the proper testing to confirm this. They even went to far as to pressure test the system when I TOLD THEM THE FAN ISN'T WORKING.

[GoCougs]

I really don't care; this statement is a blatant ad-homenim statement and is really based upon hearsay. What you're saying doesn't make any sense in a modern car, especially when the problem has already been said over and over again.

Honestly, I don't care. The statement in bold is hearsay; there is no possible way you could know the percentage of repairs are warranty that dealers do.





Let's take it to the most basic level I can think of: When the charging system is turning out too much power, it will blow stuff up. Why cougs, is nothing else on my car blown if the charging system has a problem with overcharging?

You seem much more interested in reinventing the world of electronics rather than understanding how the current world of electronics works; that's just not worth my time.

[2o6]

Cop. Freaking. Out.



If you have nothing to add, don't post.

[Eye of the Tiger]

p0st?

You should get a cold air intake kit. +11 HP

[Soup DeVille]

You seem much more interested in reinventing the world of electronics rather than understanding how the current world of electronics works; that's just not worth my time.

fact: your statement was that a faulty voltage regulator could not possibly cause a blown fuse; when there are dozens of ways in which this could cause exactly that.

Everything since has been mere obfuscation.

[2o6]

fact: your statement was that a faulty voltage regulator could not possibly cause a blown fuse; when there are dozens of ways in which this could cause exactly that.

Everything since has been mere obfuscation.

EVEN IF cougs were right, the dealer's method and what they told me doesn't add up.

[GoCougs]

You know when a guy tells me what he's done instead of backing his shit up, I just stop listening.

You increase the voltage to the fan, it speeds up, but its not a linear transition like you're implying. The amp draw does does not just stay the same.

Plus, if you find a circuit on any modern car that is a pure DC motor circuit and nothing else, tell me.

Sure seems like you're listening .

I explained the voltage/current relationship of how DC motors work yet all you did was hurl insults; time to toe the line you've drawn for yourself and show me how that's wrong.

Sure it's linear; not linear to 0.000001% but even cheap brushed DC motors like that used in cars will be within 5-10%; they have to be otherwise they wouldn't work.

There a loads of "pure" DC motor (circuits) on a modern car - starter motor, moonroof, power seats, etc.

[2o6]

Stay out.

[2o6]

p0st?

You should get a cold air intake kit. +11 HP

I've thought about it....seriously.

[Eye of the Tiger]

http://www.amazon.com/Yaris-2007-Intake-Injen-SP2024P/dp/B0036O4W60

dat hosepowar

[2o6]

http://www.amazon.com/Yaris-2007-Intake-Injen-SP2024P/dp/B0036O4W60

dat hosepowar

nah mang


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCS-CAI4407/

[Eye of the Tiger]

nah mang


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCS-CAI4407/

I have obviously not shopped around. That is good deel.

[2o6]

I have obviously not shopped around. That is good deel.

And since it's only 10 minutes away, I can pick it up!

[Soup DeVille]

I insulted nobody. I called you out on your mistakes.if you can't handle that, i suggest you adjust your medications

(That, for reference purposes only, was an insult- see the difference?)

Fans like to flow at a certain CFM range: move much outside of that, and the current draw goes up singificantly. That has nothing to do with the motor, but with the fan. Spin the fan 10% faster, and it may draw 20% more power: net increase in current, end of story.

And no, none of those, especially on a modern car are going to be isolated down to the motor level with one fuse. In fact, almost nothing on a car is as simple as it appears. Take a moon roof motor for instance- that's not just a motor circuit, but it also powers the CANbus node and hall-effect feedback input module for the moonroof, the native IO module that controls the various positions, and the anti-trap sensing (yes, its that complicated): any of which when fed too much voltage will trip breakers all day long. (Hey, guess what I do for a living now)

Sure seems like you're listening .

I explained the voltage/current relationship of how DC motors work yet all you did was hurl insults; time to toe the line you've drawn for yourself and show me how that's wrong.

Sure it's linear; not linear to 0.000001% but even cheap brushed DC motors like that used in cars will be within 5-10%; they have to be otherwise they wouldn't work.

There a loads of "pure" DC motor (circuits) on a modern car - starter motor, moonroof, power seats, etc.

[GoCougs]

fact: your statement was that a faulty voltage regulator could not possibly cause a blown fuse; when there are dozens of ways in which this could cause exactly that.

Everything since has been mere obfuscation.

Nice attempt at non-motorized premise alteration:

A DC motor is not a static resistive load (a common incorrect assumption). It is an inductive + resistive (mostly) load that self (mechanically) commutates. What does this mean exactly? RPM is proportional to voltage and torque is proportional to current: give a DC motor more voltage it spins faster but current draw will remain the same (if load remains the same; which it will, with a fix-pitched radiator cooling fan).

You could not be more wrong. You could try to be, but you would fail.

I know you guys HATE me correcting you and otherwise HATE when I'm right, but give a thought to MaybeIshouldjustlistenlikeanadultnexttimeSPIN.

If you think current is proportional to voltage in a DC motor, or think there aren't DC motors in cars, or whatever nonsense you, 2o6, or others are peddling, you're just being stupid.

[Soup DeVille]

An alternator can't blow out a fuse; only the downstream load can blow a fuse (current is drawn through a fuse, it's not pushed).

Who's altering the premise again?

[Eye of the Tiger]

You can't push current through a fuse? Yeah, that's right, they only work one way.

[2o6]

See? I post one stupid thing, and you guys are twisting my words



Facts:

Dealer mechanic says the fan is dead (he says he cannot get any response in the code reader to start the fan) Tries to bill me for associated hardware, including some redundancies in the quote

Dealer mechanic says the fan has more drag than normal (I don't think this is true; in comparison to the new fan I bought it has the same amount of drag; car spins old fan up with no trouble)

Dealer mechanic orders every part piece by piece (I found the unit for $90 new in box) writes quote me outrageous charge for a thing that literally clips to the back of the radiatior. Literally two things are in the way; upper radiator hose and a hose for the airbox.

Dealer mechanic says that there is no power going to the fan (but as I found out didn't do anything to check the fuses)

Possibly, come to think of it, the cooling fan may have never been working since I bought the car. However, since I don't have a conventional temperature gauge I never really knew if it was heating up too hot or not (until the temp light came on) car ran fine, had no reason to believe otherwise

AC compressor has the cooling fan running all the time. AC on, no fan. Now the fan works just fine....at least for now.



Even if the blown fuse is a result of something else (a short, bad fan) the dealer didn't do the proper testing to confirm this. They even went to far as to pressure test the system when I TOLD THEM THE FAN ISN'T WORKING.

Cougs, even if you're right, the dealer didn't draw the conclusion correctly.

[2o6]

Nice attempt at non-motorized premise alteration:

I know you guys HATE me correcting you and otherwise HATE when I'm right, but give a thought to MaybeIshouldjustlistenlikeanadultnexttimeSPIN.

If you think current is proportional to voltage in a DC motor, or think there aren't DC motors in cars, or whatever nonsense you, 2o6, or others are peddling, you're just being stupid.

Holy cow. If I turn up the voltage in my car to 20V, it's going to destroy pretty much every fuse the car has. If the fuses somehow hold up, it's going to destroy anything that uses power on the ends (lightbulbs, DC motors).