Refreshed 2013 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Gets New Look, More Tech

[ifcar]

The CT200h starts below $30k -- not really relevant to the E-Class market. It's not setting sales records, but it's at around 1,500 a month.

It's doing particularly well in Northwest Washington and probably a few other markets, if not nationwide.

[Atomic]

the emperor's new clothes . i had begun admiring the "changes" when in fact the pics are of '12 models, as pointed out. the power of suggestion is astonishing.

[cawimmer430]

If there were enough demand to warrant it, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi would be taking advantage of it.  Lexus sells a luxury hybrid, the CT200h, and I don't think it's doing very well.  I've only ever seen one, and that's because I know someone who has one. 

I seem to recall reading that the CT200h was selling very well.

If you can't afford to fill the tank of a luxury car, don't buy it, period.  No one is entitled to own a luxury car. 

The point is this: There are people who want a luxury car but don't need all the power and poorer fuel inefficiency of the higher models.

[Vinsanity]

So what happened to the market of folks who want fuel-efficient luxury cars? Those people have to be around, the type that would buy an E200 CGI if it were offered there...

Basically, the only fuel-efficient luxury car that sells well (from what I observe) is the Lexus RX hybrid. Like Raza said, as you start spending more money, it's foolish to worry about fuel costs.

Basically, the people who would've bought diesel W126's in the '80s are buying RX hybrids, and those who would've bought diesel W123's are buying fully-loaded Priuses.

[cawimmer430]

Like Raza said, as you start spending more money, it's foolish to worry about fuel costs.

But just because you're rich doesn't mean you have to be wasteful.

That's all I am saying. And I am sure there are many people who want a fuel efficient E-Class and aren't fans of diesels, hence an E250 CGI would be the best choice for them.

[CALL_911]

A lot of people buy the 528 because they can't afford a 535 or 550.

Yeah, I doubt that.

[TurboDan]

^^ You mean, if you start paying a fair price for the car, and not have the rest of the World pay more to practically subsidize your car purchases.

Huh? How does the rest of the world subsidize car purchases in the U.S.? If it wasn't for the sales volume of the U.S. market, a number of carmakers would probably be out of business today.

[Vinsanity]

^^ You mean, if you start paying a fair price for the car, and not have the rest of the World pay more to practically subsidize your car purchases.

LOL. A "fair price" is what the market is willing to support. Simple as that. Just because M-B can get away with selling stripped-down 4-cylinder E-classes in the other side of the world for $50k+ or equivalent doesn't give them a good enough reason to do the same here. In the end, they have to be competitive with whatever is being offered in any market they enter.

[GoCougs]

Jesus, that is just not a good looking car. I can't image that updates will make it look any better.

[AltinD]

Huh? How does the rest of the world subsidize car purchases in the U.S.? If it wasn't for the sales volume of the U.S. market, a number of carmakers would probably be out of business today.

Yeah, but the margins are very small and volume is the only thing that keeps them there. You all know how market share, volume and "growth" are what matters the most in today's capitalism .... yeah, even more then sheer proffit.

[AltinD]

LOL. A "fair price" is what the market is willing to support. Simple as that. Just because M-B can get away with selling stripped-down 4-cylinder E-classes in the other side of the world for $50k+ or equivalent doesn't give them a good enough reason to do the same here. In the end, they have to be competitive with whatever is being offered in any market they enter.

I just don't like volume selling strategies, ok! It destroyes everything.

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah, but the margins are very small and volume is the only thing that keeps them there. You all know how market share, volume and "growth" are what matters the most in today's capitalism .... yeah, even more then sheer proffit.

What's your point? Even if MB makes a very small margin here (which I kinda doubt, anyways), they more than make up for it with volume. And to a business, sheer profit matters more than volume and growth. Both are important, especially having decent growth in any market, but at the end of the day, every car maker is going to sell as many cars as they can to get as much profit as possible.

I just don't like volume selling strategies, ok! It destroyes everything.

You just sound jealous that you have to pay more for cars.

[2o6]

Our cars cost the same. Taxes make cars more expensive.

[Xer0]

Yeah, but the margins are very small and volume is the only thing that keeps them there. You all know how market share, volume and "growth" are what matters the most in today's capitalism .... yeah, even more then sheer proffit.

The amount of profit made on an equivalent spec E-class sold on either side of the world is probably the same or similar.  The difference is that we don?t pay a 50% mark up due to additional taxes, you do.  Your higher prices due to taxes aren?t subsidizing shit over here in the US, least of all our cheaper car prices.  Feel free to hate, but don?t make stuff up.

[AltinD]

The amount of profit made on an equivalent spec E-class sold on either side of the world is probably the same or similar.  The difference is that we don?t pay a 50% mark up due to additional taxes, you do.  Your higher prices due to taxes aren?t subsidizing shit over here in the US, least of all our cheaper car prices.  Feel free to hate, but don?t make stuff up.

There are no taxes where I live 

[AltinD]

You just sound jealous that you have to pay more for cars.

I am "jelous" because of markets like yours, manufacturers are forced to cheappen up their products ... but on the other hand, you get coockie-cutter products looking all the same and equiped all the same, while we elsewhere can factory customise our vehicles more.

[cawimmer430]

LOL. A "fair price" is what the market is willing to support. Simple as that. Just because M-B can get away with selling stripped-down 4-cylinder E-classes in the other side of the world for $50k+ or equivalent doesn't give them a good enough reason to do the same here. In the end, they have to be competitive with whatever is being offered in any market they enter.

50,000 Euros for an E200 CGI would be a dream. With 19% VAT it actually costs 60,000 Euros (50,000 + 19% VAT = 9,500 Euros = 59,500 Euros final price).  

[2o6]

There are no taxes where I live 

The elevated price isn't for nothing. I suspect transportation or some other hidden costs is why your cars are more expensive.

[Laconian]

It's probably priced for what the UAE can bear, and the UAE can bear some crazy prices...

[Colonel Cadillac]

50,000 Euros for an E200 CGI would be a dream. With 19% VAT it actually costs 60,000 Euros (50,000 + 19% VAT = 9,500 Euros = 59,500 Euros final price). 

Damn, the marginal benefit per euro spent on a vehicle decreases very quickly there. Such a shame.

[cawimmer430]

Damn, the marginal benefit per euro spent on a vehicle decreases very quickly there. Such a shame.

The E200 CGI isn't even the best-seller. The E220 CDI dominates over 50% of E-Class sales and amongst the gasoline-powered models the E250 and E300 sell far more units than the E200, which is now called BlueEfficiency. There's also an E200 NGT which uses LPG as a fuel.

[AltinD]

It's probably priced for what the UAE can bear, and the UAE can bear some crazy prices...

Low and mid-range cars, prices here are slightly more expensive then in USA, but they are way more on top of the range or flagship models. Although these last ones are very well equipped usually. The S500L (550 by you) costs up to $150k here, with the AMG design package added.

[TurboDan]

There's another not-so-hidden secret about the U.S. market, though, and that is the fact that we're forced to buy upmarket trims on many European cars. There are no 4cyl BMWs here, no lower-end C-Classes, etc. Perhaps the prices are a few thousand dollars lower on the models we DO get, but we don't even have the OPTION of buying any entry-level 3ers or even 1ers.

I suppose the brain trusts in the corporate offices somehow figured out that would produce a higher profit than selling the entire range, although with rising oil prices and a continued poor economy one would have to assume they will entertain something of a change of mindset.

[Raza]

There's another not-so-hidden secret about the U.S. market, though, and that is the fact that we're forced to buy upmarket trims on many European cars. There are no 4cyl BMWs here, no lower-end C-Classes, etc. Perhaps the prices are a few thousand dollars lower on the models we DO get, but we don't even have the OPTION of buying any entry-level 3ers or even 1ers.

I suppose the brain trusts in the corporate offices somehow figured out that would produce a higher profit than selling the entire range, although with rising oil prices and a continued poor economy one would have to assume they will entertain something of a change of mindset.

Isn't the new _28i BMW engine a four cylinder?

I can see the business case against low end luxury models.  Europeans are xenophobic and very class and image conscious.  Compared to them, we don't give a shit about that.  We have the option of buying a car with similar or more features than more expensive entry luxury cars that are Japanese or Volkswagens that are European.  If you're buying a sub-entry level luxury car, the question then becomes why?  If it's that you don't care for the extra power or options, but want the engineering, sure, go for it.  But more often than not, I'd think it's all about the badge.

[SVT666]

There are no 4cyl BMWs here...

I suggest you look at the BMW website and click on 328i or 528i.

[850CSi]

I suggest you look at the BMW website and click on 328i or 528i.

[Hachee]

In any discussion about relative prices, shouldn't there also be consideration given to general purchasing power of the buyer?  Wimmer says an E200CGI costs 60,000 Euros, which is about US$80,000 - and I'm guessing it's not all that well equipped.   That's about what a totally loaded E500 would go for in the US.  So the question is - what does the same guy, with the same job, EARN in both places?  Is the average European buyer spending a greater portion of his earnings on the same car?  Does he earn more over there and just pay higher prices for everything?

If I moved to Europe, sold my house and car, and did the same job over there, what would I earn, what would I need to pay for housing in a similar neighborhood?  Would I need to spend more of my earnings to get the same car?

I'm sure with a little research, I can find this out.  But I think it's just more than certain goods just being more expensive.

Hope I made my point clear...I'm trying to work at the same time!
I suppose with a little research I can find this out.  

[cawimmer430]

In any discussion about relative prices, shouldn't there also be consideration given to general purchasing power of the buyer?  Wimmer says an E200CGI costs 60,000 Euros, which is about US$80,000 - and I'm guessing it's not all that well equipped.   That's about what a totally loaded E500 would go for in the US.  So the question is - what does the same guy, with the same job, EARN in both places?  Is the average European buyer spending a greater portion of his earnings on the same car?  Does he earn more over there and just pay higher prices for everything?

If I moved to Europe, sold my house and car, and did the same job over there, what would I earn, what would I need to pay for housing in a similar neighborhood?  Would I need to spend more of my earnings to get the same car?

I'm sure with a little research, I can find this out.  But I think it's just more than certain goods just being more expensive.

Hope I made my point clear...I'm trying to work at the same time!
I suppose with a little research I can find this out. 

You're forgetting that Europeans also have a different view on luxury.

What is considered luxury here might not be considered luxury in the US. Most Europeans (emphasis on "MOST") tend to be conservative with their luxury purchase. Instead of buying an E500, a simple E220 CDI will do. You're limited to the same speeds as everyone else and an E500 won't get you faster to your destination than an E220 CDI. You're still driving a Mercedes but you're being more socially conscious and getting better fuel economy at the same time. Luxury to most people here is about being inconspicuous and also somewhat socially responsible. I actually know a few people, friend of my dad, who in the '70s and '80s drove the most powerful BMWs or Mercedes' models around - and now they're driving some diesel-powered 1-Series or C or E-Class (or even an A/B-Class) because they've come to a point where they ask themselves "What more do I need? / Do I really need more?"

Even my dad is reaching that point. He likes his E350 CGI but he "sort off regrets going for it when a B-Class offers virtually the same amount of interior space but is more fuel-efficient and easier to manage in the crowded city environment".

From what I gather, luxury in the US is about buying the biggest and the most powerful car possible, even if you don't need the performance, and showing it off to your neighbors. I'll buy an E63 AMG because I can, even if I only will drive from my home to the Golf club down the block. Correct me if I am wrong.

[TurboDan]

From what I gather, luxury in the US is about buying the biggest and the most powerful car possible, even if you don't need the performance, and showing it off to your neighbors. I'll buy an E63 AMG because I can, even if I only will drive from my home to the Golf club down the block. Correct me if I am wrong.

You're not wrong. The same went for Americans when buying homes -- spend all the money you can possibly spend on the biggest house you can find. The issue is that it all came crashing down when people realized they had no savings after being laid off from their jobs. The slightest bump in life caused financial ruin for large segments of our population because of the attitude you described.

People are realizing that bigger isn't always better, even if by the force of economic realities. In my opinion, Americans will eventually have to learn to curb their addiction to credit and buying things they can't afford. Will they still want a Mercedes or BMW? Of course! But then the lower-end luxury cars will become more attractive.

In limited capacities, lower end luxury cars were success stories here. The BMW 318i sold well when they offered it here. I sense these companies didn't offer these cars often because people preferred to spend more money on a bigger engine and more "stuff," but when interest rates rise eventually one wonders if this will be sustainable.

[SVT666]

Apparently that 4 banger is very impressive.