2014 BMW M3 Preview

[850CSi]

You know, I never really enjoyed the "rush of power" in the 335xi I drove. Maybe it felt like such a shitty car to drive because it was an auto AWD 3-series, but it wasn't fun at all.

[sportyaccordy]

You should go test drive a 35i, or new 28i BMW.

When it gets warm I will definitely make a few trips to dealerships

[SJ_GTI]

You said nothing about All-seasons in your original post.  BTW, AWD in snow doesn't make you stop any better or corner any better, it just gives you better traction for acceleration.

While I agree it doesn't help when stopping, it does help you corner better in many situations simply because most turns are made while also applying power to the wheels (not necessarily accelarating but you are applying power to the wheels even if you are just maintaining speed).

From a practical POV, I have always had an easier time handling with my AWD car (first an A4 and currently an S4) vs a FWD (my GTI) or RWD (My Z3...which did have a LSD BTW) car in the snow.

[cawimmer430]

Is this real or a rendering? The rear wheels sit kind of funny inside of the fenders.

Rendering. It's the current M3 body with some styling cues of the current 3er tacked on.

[SVT666]

While I agree it doesn't help when stopping, it does help you corner better in many situations simply because most turns are made while also applying power to the wheels (not necessarily accelarating but you are applying power to the wheels even if you are just maintaining speed).

From a practical POV, I have always had an easier time handling with my AWD car (first an A4 and currently an S4) vs a FWD (my GTI) or RWD (My Z3...which did have a LSD BTW) car in the snow.

It might help in low speed corners but anything above say 25 mph it all comes down to tires.

[Lebowski]

It sez the 4-door will be available first ... Anybody know when that will be?

[SJ_GTI]

It might help in low speed corners but anything above say 25 mph it all comes down to tires.

In significant snow I am usually not driving much (if any) faster then 25 MPH when making turns...

[r0tor]

While I agree it doesn't help when stopping, it does help you corner better in many situations simply because most turns are made while also applying power to the wheels (not necessarily accelarating but you are applying power to the wheels even if you are just maintaining speed).

From a practical POV, I have always had an easier time handling with my AWD car (first an A4 and currently an S4) vs a FWD (my GTI) or RWD (My Z3...which did have a LSD BTW) car in the snow.

I agree... I can almost fall alseep driving the Jeep in the snow with all seasons while the RX8 was always a nervous twitchy bitch in the snow with snow tires on.

[LonghornTX]

It sez the 4-door will be available first ... Anybody know when that will be?

Probably sometime next year, if history is any guide.

[S204STi]

It might help in low speed corners but anything above say 25 mph it all comes down to tires.

Disagree.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Disagree.

it's all about drift angle and keeping your right foot down, eh?

[Colonel Cadillac]

I can't wait to hear this theoretical turbo-V6 sounds like.



And, sporty, you can still hope Cadillac will drop the LS3 in the ATS-V! I really hope Cadillac goes the NA V8 route.

[sportyaccordy]

I can't wait to hear this theoretical turbo-V6 sounds like.



And, sporty, you can still hope Cadillac will drop the LS3 in the ATS-V! I really hope Cadillac goes the NA V8 route.

That would be pretty beastly. The LSx is really light too. Its pretty much perfect. I would also bet the ATS-V will be lighter than the M3 too. I wish Infiniti would get more serious. People are doing some gnarly things with VQs. Stroked VQs are putting down more torque at the wheels than stock M3s do at the crank... and power is only limited by revs

I'm still having trouble reconciling a V6 BMW, but I also get that I'm being a little irrational/hyperbolic. At the minimum I hope they make it louder than the M5. Unbelievable that an M car needs an engine noise generator

[Cookie Monster]

I agree... I can almost fall alseep driving the Jeep in the snow with all seasons while the RX8 was always a nervous twitchy bitch in the snow with snow tires on.

Is that due to 4WD or due to the softer steering and suspension on the Jeep compared to the much more responsive setup in the RX8?

[sportyaccordy]

Is that due to 4WD or due to the softer steering and suspension on the Jeep compared to the much more responsive setup in the RX8?

Thats def a part of it, as well as the Jeep's higher pressure on the contact patch. I bet the Jeep + RX8 have the same tire width

Some cars are just skittish... my buddy's mom refuses to drive her S2000 in the rain, the tail loves to step out even on new tires

[GoCougs]

AWD/4WD helps in all inclement conditions; acceleration, braking and handling/turning.

[sportyaccordy]

AWD/4WD helps in all inclement conditions; acceleration, braking and handling/turning.

How does it help in braking + turning?

[Eye of the Tiger]

How does it help in braking + turning?

engine braking. duh.

[MX793]

He's wrong if but for nothing other than mixing premises and sprinkling in a bit of strawmanism. (I deleted that comment FWIW, as it was sharper than I had intended.)

I drive in a LOT of snow, and not just "metro" snow; mountain passes, ski areas, and desolate and rural roads. 2WD + all seasons is    in such conditions; pretty much no one does it.

But snow wasn't my point, it was his.

1)  "Metro area" as it applies to cities in upstate NY includes a fair amount of what would be considered "rural".

2)  I assume you remember the photos and news coverage of NYC after they got 18" of snow dropped on them the winter before last?  Downtown here got hit with twice that in the same period of time during the first week of December.  For the first 6 days of December, we saw just shy of 4 feet come down.  Unlike NYC, the city didn't shut down.  People went about their day as normal.

3)  You drive through mountain passes and to ski resorts, and therefore through a lot of snow, for recreation a few times a month.  I have to drive through a lot of snow to perform daily tasks like going to work or the grocery store.

4)  The worst part of the NY lake-effect snow belt covers thousands of square miles.  It's not like a mountain pass where the pass gets dumped on every year, but the town 20 miles away barely gets 6 feet of snow per year.

[Tave]

Lots of people drive 2WD+all seasons around mountain passes and ski areas. I crossed the continental divide ~100 times in my Aveo on trips to Winter Park 4 years ago.

[GoCougs]

How does it help in braking + turning?

For braking, 4WD and to a lesser extent AWD locks the F & R axle automatically distributing brake force evenly preventing premature lockup or ABS kick-in.

For turning, even simpler; simply staying on trajectory by mitigated over/under steer.

[GoCougs]

1)  "Metro area" as it applies to cities in upstate NY includes a fair amount of what would be considered "rural".

2)  I assume you remember the photos and news coverage of NYC after they got 18" of snow dropped on them the winter before last?  Downtown here got hit with twice that in the same period of time during the first week of December.  For the first 6 days of December, we saw just shy of 4 feet come down.  Unlike NYC, the city didn't shut down.  People went about their day as normal.

3)  You drive through mountain passes and to ski resorts, and therefore through a lot of snow, for recreation a few times a month.  I have to drive through a lot of snow to perform daily tasks like going to work or the grocery store.

4)  The worst part of the NY lake-effect snow belt covers thousands of square miles.  It's not like a mountain pass where the pass gets dumped on every year, but the town 20 miles away barely gets 6 feet of snow per year.

I drive lots of miles on plain ole road driving with snow/ice as well.

The amount of snow fall does not dictate road conditions. Lots of parts of Alaska get WAY more snow but owing to the uber perpetual cold the snow/ice pack becomes grippier than many would think (probably 1/2 - 2/3 the traction of wet road).

On many of those roads I drive, the state dictates traction devices on three levels: snow tires advised, snow tires + chains on trucks required, chains or 4/AWD required. If caught in violation you receive a citation. So, by definition, a number of times throughout the winter one can't go it (legally) with 2WD and all seasons.

If you can do it safely and proficiently in 2WD + all seasons, the snow requirements aren't much of anything by definition.

[r0tor]

Lots of people drive 2WD+all seasons around mountain passes and ski areas. I crossed the continental divide ~100 times in my Aveo on trips to Winter Park 4 years ago.

I drove the rx8 in all kinds of blizzards and up to the ski slopes.. just because I got through it doesnt mean id even remotely consider going out in that shit ever again when i now have a jeep available.  There is a nihht and day difference

[GoCougs]

To which I'd add, I've had pretty much all combinations in snow save for 4WD/AWD + snow tires:

RWD + all seasons;
RWD + studded tires;
FWD + all seasons;
FWD + studded tires;
FWD + studless snow tires:
4WD + knobby off road tires;
4WD + all seasons;
AWD + all seasons.

[r0tor]

Thats def a part of it, as well as the Jeep's higher pressure on the contact patch. I bet the Jeep + RX8 have the same tire width

Some cars are just skittish... my buddy's mom refuses to drive her S2000 in the rain, the tail loves to step out even on new tires

Jeep has 295s I think... My snow tires on the 8 were 215s

[Cookie Monster]

Jeep has 295s I think... My snow tires on the 8 were 215s

295's on a JEEP?!?!

[68_427]

295's on a JEEP?!?!

Full size SUVs and trucks usually have at least 265s all around.

[r0tor]

Actually yea I think they are 265s

[sportyaccordy]

For braking, 4WD and to a lesser extent AWD locks the F & R axle automatically distributing brake force evenly preventing premature lockup or ABS kick-in.

For turning, even simpler; simply staying on trajectory by mitigated over/under steer.

I'm not buying the first one, especially in a slushbox w/open diffs... engine braking is nil and even if it wasn't it would only act on the wheels with the least grip. Plus many modern cars have electronic brake distribution (maybe all now)

And a car's response is tied to way more than the drive wheels. Something like a Peugeot 205 GTi would be way more prone to snap oversteer in the snow than something like a Crown Vic despite it being FWD

Driving style/skills + tires + suspension response + transmission >>>>>>>>>>>>> drive wheels

To which I'd add, I've had pretty much all combinations in snow save for 4WD/AWD + snow tires:

RWD + all seasons;
RWD + studded tires;
FWD + all seasons;
FWD + studded tires;
FWD + studless snow tires:
4WD + knobby off road tires;
4WD + all seasons;
AWD + all seasons.

Not for nothing you are also the same dude who said a car goes from being worthless to worth checking out if a magazine can get it into the 14s

Even if you have experience your opinions on matters are often dubious + extreme

[Raza]

Lots of people drive 2WD+all seasons around mountain passes and ski areas. I crossed the continental divide ~100 times in my Aveo on trips to Winter Park 4 years ago.

It's a wonder you're still alive.