BRZ gets slammed by EVO and comes in last in comparo...

[Vinsanity]

So what brands have "good" "stereotypes"?

[TurboDan]

They are known for treating you like crap, and the whole reputation for the entire make are for rich, stupid girls.

WTF? I've never been treated like crap at a Volkswagen dealer, and most of the VW drivers I know are guys. 

[TurboDan]

I would say the reputation is more that they're for yuppies who pretend to care about the environment, vote Democrat, wear black rimmed glasses, and do yoga.  That's at least how I saw it.  And I'm three out of four.  So the stereotype fits. 

See, I always thought of Subarus and Saabs that way. Not VWs.

I broke all of those stereotypes except the environment one during my Saab driving days.

[TurboDan]

I agree. Both enthusiasts and more casual drivers hold BMWs in high regard after driving one. You can feel the allure and what an awesome car feels like the second you get behind the wheel.

When it comes to BMW criticism, it tends to be based on jealousy, coming mostly from those who can't afford one. "Psshhh... my [insert car here] handles just as well as a BMW and cost $20,000 less. You just paid for the name and leather seats. Wah wah wah."

[Rupert]

No, you're talking about enthusiasts and the actual cars. The stereotype that most people have of Bimmer drivers is that they're pricks. BMW has one of the worst reps in this regard, after maybe Porsche.

[Rupert]

Hahahahaha! Good one!

[AutobahnSHO]

I just thought you drank a lot.

 

[Onslaught]

I agree. Both enthusiasts and more casual drivers hold BMWs in high regard after driving one. You can feel the allure and what an awesome car feels like the second you get behind the wheel.

When it comes to BMW criticism, it tends to be based on jealousy, coming mostly from those who can't afford one. "Psshhh... my [insert car here] handles just as well as a BMW and cost $20,000 less. You just paid for the name and leather seats. Wah wah wah."

I wouldn't say that. I can buy one but didn't because I don't trust them or any German car all that much.

[Raza]

That makes two of us.

I forget which company it was--I think it was Timex--that made a watch with a built in monitor scanner.  You could hold your watch up to your computer screen and using software on the computer, it would scan your monitor and download the information to your watch. 

[Raza]

See, I always thought of Subarus and Saabs that way. Not VWs.

I broke all of those stereotypes except the environment one during my Saab driving days.

I always got the feeling that VWs, Saabs, and Volvos had very similar reputations, Volvos being slightly nerdier and Saabs being slightly more environmentalist.

[565]

Well Car  and Driver has tested the BRZ

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-subaru-brz-limited-vs-route-napoleon-road-test

so 6.3 0-60, 14.9 1/4 mile @ 95mph.  Overall the same kind of performance that MT got, and overall not that slow.  They do mention that the lack of torque is a bit of a problem.  I think the main issue is that they boosted the torque at 2800 rpms, which makes for that dip in the mid range.  Most of the "spirited" driving isn't done at cruising RPMs or near redline, but rather that mid range that they've sacrificed.

[sportyaccordy]

I think this closing quote is more telling

Could the BRZ use more power? Sure, it could. And the Route Napol?on could use more switchbacks. Subaru has acknowledged that the BRZ?s engine is the basis for the next turbocharged powerplant in the Impreza WRX, so more power is probably on the way. But we?ve seen that movie before. In the ?90s, Japanese automakers increased performance and price until they lost touch with the ?market they?d created. In its current state, the BRZ?s balance of attributes needs no tweaking. It offers razor-sharp handling with limits that let you exploit the car?s capabilities on the street, all at a sweet price. In that sense, the BRZ is the perfect everyday sports car, even if  you?re not driving on a perfect road.

I will bet the aftermarket will fill that dip w/catless headers + environmentally unfriendly tuning

[ChrisV]

Yeah, that's why I said "not to be".  I know it's not right, but the idea of buying and driving a Scion makes me feel dirty.  I'm an adult, I want to drive a car made for adults, not one marketed to the sideways hat crowd. 

Why is there such a sense of accomplishment from you for being a closed minded brand snob? You KNOW it's wrong yet you're proud of that limited mental capability?

Vanity at it's worst in a supposed automotive enthusiast forum.

And I like in the article how the Miata and Nissan both drove like crap and had to be threashed on to handle decently, and that's ok, but a car that drove flawlessly in the braking and handling department and had to be thrashed on to make a bit of power was a bad thing. Power can be added easily, whereas making a car handle right is not so easy. The Toyobaru got all the driving dynamics right, yet a magazine dedicated to driving dynamics instead made excuses for the cars that handled worse 'cause they made more power. Shades of American drag race fanbois talking about how bad sports cars are.

And before you say it, does my car ownership history point to subaru or toyota fanboyism?

[SVT666]

Chris is back!

[SVT666]

I like horsepower.  I like driving dynamics.  I want to have both in one car, so this car doesn't do it for me.  Maybe the STi will.

Now, I'm with Raza on this one.  At this point of Scion's life, I could never have a Scion parked in my garage no matter how good it is.  I also said that about Hyundai and Kia 10 years ago, but I don't say that anymore.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The BRZ has faux vents on the front fenders, which pisses me off more than the fact that Scion is a stupid brand, so now I have to side with the FRS. I prefer the random boxer 86 badge.

[Raza]

Why is there such a sense of accomplishment from you for being a closed minded brand snob? You KNOW it's wrong yet you're proud of that limited mental capability?

Vanity at it's worst in a supposed automotive enthusiast forum.

I wouldn't buy My Little Pony either.  Brand snobbery!

[Eye of the Tiger]

I wouldn't buy My Little Pony either.  Brand snobbery!

But friendship is magic... you can't deny it

[sportyaccordy]

I dont get it... do you guys wake up in the middle of the night, go to your garage, and say "Yea, Ford/Volkswagen/some other non-descript mainstream brand"

I am thinking about getting a "HYOSUNG" sticker for my tank, just so when I'm done with my build people think the bike is a cheap piece of crap. Sometimes brand equity can work against you

I guess my question is, what is the big deal with brand equity, when it has no bearing on how good or bad a car is (see: MB R-class)

[Raza]

I guess my question is, what is the big deal with brand equity, when it has no bearing on how good or bad a car is (see: MB R-class)

If it didn't matter, then no luxury product would ever sell at its price.  Mercedes couldn't justify their prices, Lexus ES sales would tank, Rolexes across the world would be replaced by Timexes, et al.  You're asking a question to which you already know the answer, and in the process pretending that you're above it.  And no one is, which is the lie of it.  It's a matter of degrees, though; certainly there are people who are much, much, much more image-conscious than I am, as well as much, much less. 

No one is "right" and no one is "wrong", that is, of course, unless they disagree with you (general you, not you specifically).  Look at Chris's vitriolic and all-caps-worded attack on my post when I said that I didn't want to be associated with teenagers who don't know how to wear a hat, don't know what a belt is, and think that pot is a cool drug.  I'm not rich enough to give absolutely no shit about what other people think of me. 

[sportyaccordy]

I can see/understand wanting to cash in on brand equity. I just can't understand being so afraid of being associated with a brand, you deny yourself an otherwise great product. The avg person doesnt know what Scion is. Car people dont care what the badge is. This thread is literally the first place I've seen anyone say anything about the car being a Scion being a problem. So who exactly are we afraid of here?

Not to mention, a winged out WRX STi is way more childish in appearance than an FR-S. I would have way more reservations about driving one of those than an FR-S. You can debadge an FR-S way easier + cheaper than de-winging + fender blistering an STi.

[Raza]

I can see/understand wanting to cash in on brand equity. I just can't understand being so afraid of being associated with a brand, you deny yourself an otherwise great product. The avg person doesnt know what Scion is. Car people dont care what the badge is. This thread is literally the first place I've seen anyone say anything about the car being a Scion being a problem. So who exactly are we afraid of here?

Not to mention, a winged out WRX STi is way more childish in appearance than an FR-S. I would have way more reservations about driving one of those than an FR-S. You can debadge an FR-S way easier + cheaper than de-winging + fender blistering an STi.

I'm not saying that it being so good could outweigh the badge isn't a possibility.  I'm just saying with Scion it's a steep cliff to climb.

And yeah, the STI is more childish than the FR-S in appearance, but it's also nerdy.  Which is cool.  To me, anyway.  Though, even in college, when I drove an STI, I felt a little embarrassed.  However, the Evo was so fucking good that I didn't care.  See the difference?

[Vinsanity]

Though, even in college, when I drove an STI, I felt a little embarrassed.  However, the Evo was so fucking good that I didn't care.  See the difference?

Perhaps the FR-S is so good that you won't care? Sporty is certainly convinced so. I suppose I am as well, but I never gave a shit about a car's badge in the first place.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night, went out to the parking lot, and said, "Yea, Hyundai... Ford... ", and I felt all warm and fuzzy. So I went back to bed and slept like a baby.

[Raza]

I hate the qualifications that come after that.  I'm all like "My car's pretty quick and it's fun to drive, but it still gets good gas mileage".  Then when people ask me what it is, it's "It's a Volkswagen Jetta Wolfsburg...it's got the same engine, transmission, and suspension as a GTI, though, six speed stick, it's a limited edition...."  If I had a GTI, for example, I could just say "A GTI."  And it would be done.  I love my car, but telling people what it is gets tiring.  And then the Jetta jokes don't bother me much, but it's also annoying.

Me:  I got a new car.
Coworker:  What did you get?
Me:  Scion.  BUT, it's an FR-S, joint venture with Subaru, it's a RWD sports coupe, it got a six speed stick, it's the lightest four seater on the market....

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, man.  

[280Z Turbo]

I hate the qualifications that come after that.  I'm all like "My car's pretty quick and it's fun to drive, but it still gets good gas mileage".  Then when people ask me what it is, it's "It's a Volkswagen Jetta Wolfsburg...it's got the same engine, transmission, and suspension as a GTI, though, six speed stick, it's a limited edition...."  If I had a GTI, for example, I could just say "A GTI."  And it would be done.  I love my car, but telling people what it is gets tiring.  And then the Jetta jokes don't bother me much, but it's also annoying.

Me:  I got a new car.
Coworker:  What did you get?
Me:  Scion.  BUT, it's an FR-S, joint venture with Subaru, it's a RWD sports coupe, it got a six speed stick, it's the lightest four seater on the market....

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, man. 

Just tell em it's a Toyota.

Overall, selling this car as a Scion was not a good idea. It's a little too serious for the kids who think a tC is a sports car, and Toyota could have used the excitement in their showrooms.

Also, I now have to drive to the next town over to find a Scion dealer.

[sportyaccordy]

"yo what kind of car is this man this shit is tiny broe i cant feel my feet"
"MERCEDES BENZ. A-class. "

Yea.... nah. Why the need to tell people you got a new car in the first place? Only people who know about my bike are the people who asked.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You can get Toyota GT-86 badges from Europe. Badges are relatively easy to replace.

[sportyaccordy]

You can get Toyota GT-86 badges from Europe. Badges are relatively easy to replace.

But everyone will KNOW...

[Raza]

"yo what kind of car is this man this shit is tiny broe i cant feel my feet"
"MERCEDES BENZ. A-class. "

Yea.... nah. Why the need to tell people you got a new car in the first place? Only people who know about my bike are the people who asked.

I drive to work.  People will see it eventually.  I wouldn't come in and announce it, but people are going to be like "Where's your Jetta?" when they don't see it in the parking lot every morning.