BRZ gets slammed by EVO and comes in last in comparo...

[565]

Here is what the five axis kit looks like.

[sportyaccordy]

Aggression!

[Eye of the Tiger]

This isn't the Rice thread

[sportyaccordy]

This is my only quibble with the car.  (Yet that would somehow make me a hater and mean that I'm just looking for excuses not to like it, apparently.)

Complaining about this car's speed is silly. Its faster or as fast as much of its competition (Miata, GTI, Civic Si) and it offers a driving experience that is completely unique. More power would mean more weight or more cost, which are the two things they sought to avoid in making this. The aftermarket will fill in the gaps. The people who have actually driven the car love it in spite of its gross power deficit. Power complaints at this point are beating a dead horse.

[GoCougs]

Looking at the 45-65 mph passing test, the FR-S is definitely a bottom feeder in roll-on (read:  Real world) acceleration.  3.3 seconds trails pretty much all direct competitors.  GTI does it in 3 flat.  Even the Lancer Ralliart, which has a worse power/weight ratio and has the added drivetrain losses of AWD is quicker in that test.

Looking at C&D's test of the BRZ is even more telling of the lack in powerband breadth.  0-60 in 6.3 but 5-60 in 8 flat.  That's one of the, if not the, worst spreads I've ever seen from a car that wasn't AWD.  V6 Mustang got 5.4/5.8.  The new 2.4L Civic Si sedan ran 6.1/6.4.  Even turbocharged cars, which are handicapped a bit in the 5-60 by turbo lag, tend to have tighter spreads.  GTI ran 6.3/7.2.  IIRC, the Mazdaspeed3 got 5.8/7.0.

This is my only quibble with the car.  (Yet that would somehow make me a hater and mean that I'm just looking for excuses not to like it, apparently.)

I say it again - people are expecting too much from, and otherwise put too much hope into, this little car. It's just a wee bit above a tC but not quite to the performance/cache level of a GTI or Civic Si. Not good, not bad, just is.

[Raza]

Here is what the five axis kit looks like.

Awful, like most body kits.  The car looks fine from factory, why add more weight and ruin the aerodynamics just to make it look like shit?

[SVT666]

Another CougsFAIL.  This car is fantastic.

[S204STi]

Complaining about this car's speed is silly. Its faster or as fast as much of its competition (Miata, GTI, Civic Si) and it offers a driving experience that is completely unique. More power would mean more weight or more cost, which are the two things they sought to avoid in making this. The aftermarket will fill in the gaps. The people who have actually driven the car love it in spite of its gross power deficit. Power complaints at this point are beating a dead horse.

According to Evo though the car pales in comparison to the more-fun-to drive Miata because it is not as good as the sum of its parts.  The chassis needs more power to live up to its full potential, and the lack of midrange power is a serious detriment on anything other than a downhill or flat run.  Denying this is getting pretty old dude.  My argument has always been that it could use more power, and that not offering the frankly obvious Subaru-esque soluton is silly.  I can't believe that you won't concede the possibility.  As I've pointed out many times now, this car will (and does) fall on its face in the hills because of its power-plant. They could make a fantastic car by offering the option of a turbo.  As it is, it sounds great - situationally - but not all-around, which is one of the hallmarks of a great machine.

[r0tor]

I'll keep my Mazda over this thing thank you very much

[GoCougs]

Awful, like most body kits.  The car looks fine from factory, why add more weight and ruin the aerodynamics just to make it look like shit?

It's committed the prototypical trifecta of ricer fail; too little tire for a given rim (especially the rears - yikes), poor lowering technique (rear negative camber), and just too lowered in general. But I like the wheels, body kit and exhaust tips, and I generally don't like aftermarket stuff.

[GoCougs]

This car is fantastic.

Why are you so drawn to hyperbole and otherwise making these grand predictive statements? Haven't you seen enough of your statements fail (your grandest failure of course that the new Camaro would be a sales flop) to stop?

[sportyaccordy]

Why are you so drawn to hyperbole and otherwise making these grand predictive statements?

Why can't you express an idea w/o using meaningless catch-all buzzwords like "morality"? Why do you think the measure of a car's "fun-to-drive" factor amounts to nothing more than its straight line performance? When is the last time you owned a stickshift car?

[sportyaccordy]

It's committed the prototypical trifecta of ricer fail; too little tire for a given rim (especially the rears - yikes), poor lowering technique (rear negative camber), and just too lowered in general. But I like the wheels, body kit and exhaust tips, and I generally don't like aftermarket stuff.

Negative camber can be a good thing. The original X5 had a lot of static negative camber. Certain chassis' benefit greatly from a lot of negative camber on the race track. I myself have seen cars improve in handling w/increased negative camber. Remember, when the suspension is loaded and the car is leaning, neutral camber becomes positive (that is bad), negative camber becomes neutral (that is good).

[GoCougs]

Why can't you express an idea w/o using meaningless catch-all buzzwords like "morality"? Why do you think the measure of a car's "fun-to-drive" factor amounts to nothing more than its straight line performance? When is the last time you owned a stickshift car?

Q1:  Where did I use the word "morality" in that post?

Q2:  Failed due to strawmanism.

Q3:  What car do you own again?

[GoCougs]

Negative camber can be a good thing. The original X5 had a lot of static negative camber. Certain chassis' benefit greatly from a lot of negative camber on the race track. I myself have seen cars improve in handling w/increased negative camber. Remember, when the suspension is loaded and the car is leaning, neutral camber becomes positive (that is bad), negative camber becomes neutral (that is good).

Bunches of negative camber the rear? LOL. It's there because it's a hack job. Proper lowering to that extent in the rear should be by way of drop spindles.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Bunches of negative camber the rear? LOL. It's there because it's a hack job. Proper lowering to that extent in the rear should be by way of drop spindles.

Drop spindles! LOL. Suspension fail.

[GoCougs]

Drop spindles! LOL. Suspension fail.

Great, a 'SPINner doesn't know what a spindle is...

If it ain't dropped correctly one ends up with an excessive rear negative camber hatchet lowering job.

[Cookie Monster]

It's running that much camber to tuck inside the fender...otherwise it would rub the tire to shreds.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Great, a 'SPINner doesn't know what a spindle is...

If it ain't dropped correctly one ends up with an excessive rear negative camber hatchet lowering job.

You are referring to yourself, I assume. Build a bigger strawman. Burn it down with your face. Douchebag! LOL.

[GoCougs]

You are referring to yourself, I assume. Build a bigger strawman. Burn it down with your face. Douchebag! LOL.

Really - you're going to make me gin up a drawing of how this all works?

Lots of images of spindles on the InnerKnowledges. Also search on the various kits and methods of how to drop a spindle.

[GoCougs]

It's running that much camber to tuck inside the fender...otherwise it would rub the tire to shreds.

And in the process cause all sorts of handling issues (note much less if little/any negative camber on the front)?

Like a lot of these kits/endeavors, I see a bit of a hack job to get fat tires and some lowering.

[Cookie Monster]

And in the process cause all sorts of handling issues (note much less if little/any negative camber on the front)?

Like a lot of these kits/endeavors, I see a bit of a hack job to get fat tires and some lowering.

Well yeah, it's probably too low and negatively affects the handling, but I think the point was to go for looks, not performance... I'm sure the heavier (I'm assuming) wheels and the stretched tires don't help the handling either, but they sure look nice.

[hotrodalex]

Sounds boring, but boxers can sound totally rad with the right stuff.

I agree. Right now it just sounds flat and dull, but seems like it would liven up a little bit with a few easy mods.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Really - you're going to make me gin up a drawing of how this all works?

Lots of images of spindles on the InnerKnowledges. Also search on the various kits and methods of how to drop a spindle.

You can drop a spindle on your face, but you can't drop a spindle on the rear end of a BRZ/FRS! You're a troll living in a bubble in your parents' basement. I'm a car guy. You can't argue with me.

[sportyaccordy]

Q1:  Where did I use the word "morality" in that post?

Q2:  Failed due to strawmanism.

Q3:  What car do you own again?

Please explain how owning a car is a prerequisite for being knowledgeable about them. Especially given how consistently wrong you are on so many car related things.

[SVT666]

Bunches of negative camber the rear? LOL. It's there because it's a hack job. Proper lowering to that extent in the rear should be by way of drop spindles.

CougsFAIL.  I guess you know more about suspension design and setup than BMW.  The M3 has negative camber on the rear wheels.

[SVT666]

Why are you so drawn to hyperbole and otherwise making these grand predictive statements? Haven't you seen enough of your statements fail (your grandest failure of course that the new Camaro would be a sales flop) to stop?

Nice internetry Cougs, but once again it's a massive CougsFAIL.  I never once said the Camaro would be a sales flop.  I said it would outsell everything for at least 1 year until the novelty wore off and then the Mustang would start outselling it once more.  I was wrong and I admit I was wrong.  You on the other hand refuse to admit you're wrong when you're wrong (your insistence that the Camaro SS is somehow better than the Mustang GT).

[Eye of the Tiger]

I'm going to put drop spindles on my van BECAUSE I CAN.

[280Z Turbo]

Do they even make drop spindles for anything other than pickups and old muscle cars?

[Cookie Monster]

Do they even make drop spindles for anything other than pickups and old muscle cars?

I didn't think that modern cars would have the clearance for drop spindles,but hey, what do I know?