Your "fighting words"

[shp4man]

I think somebody may have pissed in rohan's cornflakes this morning. 

[Payman]

You're not reading what I'm writing.............

You're not writing what I'm reading.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You're not writing what I'm reading.

I'm reading what you're writing and I'm writing this so you can read it.

[rohan]

You're not writing what I'm reading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FEW5mh7iAI

[GoCougs]

As to the topic of the thread...

There have been few times in my life that someone said stuff to me that made me go into mega rage autopilot with an equally SOB comment. That in and of itself isn't a fight but my response came close a few times of compelling the other person to attack - FWIW I would have responded in kind. Either way I can't imagine words alone compelling me to start a fight - can't say it would never happen though.

Fact is the right words at the right time can cause a portion of people to respond physically. Illegal? Most cases, probably. Risky? You bet - it doesn't take much to seriously injure or even kill a person with a punch or a kick. Stressful? It ain't the movies - a fight with a stranger can be a damaging experience even outside injury, lawsuit or arrest. An of course it should be said should it come to blows just like the proverbial box of chocolates, you'll never know what you're going to get - a brawler, a gun, a knife, or w/e (in short, such fights are virtually never "fair").

[Payman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FEW5mh7iAI

Yeah okay, that made me laugh. 

[GoCougs]

LOL at ToughguySPIN.

rohan ain't picking a fight with anybody...

[Raza]

You're grandstanding.  Where did HD or anyone else talk about breaking bottles?  You're not only reading way too much into it your putting words in his mouth- so to speak.  He's said "fight" not all out John Wayne style bar brawl. 

A fight's a fight, and like I said--as an adult, if someone is willing to throw a punch at me, he's willing to kill me in that fight, and that's the assumption I would operate under if I were to get into a fight.  I'm not a kid anymore.  The recess aides don't come in and send you to the principal's office.  If there's violence, I assume my life is on the line.  So I really don't think my assertion is out of line.

[Lebowski]

Thing is with bullies and I'm-big-so-I'm-a-good-fighter types like hounddog is that they generally suck at fighting. In my prime I've had friends that 7 times out of 10 would have left hounddog lying on the sidewalk crying for his mama (Golden Gloves champ, state wrestling champ), and they were all of 6'-1" and maybe 185 lbs. The wrestler was a fighter and often times threw first; the boxer was quite mellow and was rarely in fights, but when it happened, bad news for hounddog types.

Yep, you never really know what other ppl are capable of, plus you never know who has a gun or a knife and may know how to use it - that's one of the reasons I say as a former leo he really should know these things.  

It's never a good idea to escalate a verbal confrontation into a violent confrontation.  Best case you embarrass the shit out of your family and spend a night in jail. Worst case you escalate a violent confrontation that goes against you, with your loved ones present.  Go around picking fights with strangers and sooner or later you WILL get your ass handed to you.  Massive fail.

[Payman]

Actually, there are some words that would make me fight.

For example...

[Raza]

I don't think you understand the law very well. "Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire" is a case which describes the limits of the 1st Amendment. It's an exception to free speech, allowing states to pass laws which restrict the ability of a speaker to express themselves. Read that again, it restricts the speaker's rights, it has nothing to do with the rights of the listener. It is a form of prior restraint, allowing the police to arrest the person saying the words before he can use those words to incite violence. It's not a defense to beating someone up.

From Michigan's criminal code:

M.C.L.A. 780.972
780.972. Right to use of force in defense of self or another individual
Currentness
Sec. 2.

...

(2) An individual ... may use force ... against another individual ... if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.




And your civil code

M Civ JI 115.07  Assault and Battery?Provocation by Mere Words Not a Defense

Words alone, no matter how insulting, do not justify an assault or battery against the person who utters the words.

Question for you.  The "words alone" statement...am I correct in assuming that doesn't apply to threats of bodily harm?

[Tave]

Question for you.  The "words alone" statement...am I correct in assuming that doesn't apply to threats of bodily harm?

I don't know, you'd have to research the Michigan state court decisions that interpret the law.

My hunch is a threat by itself isn't enough. Now if he was waving a knife in front of your face and threatening to cut your nose off it might be a different story.

[rohan]

I don't know, you'd have to research the Michigan state court decisions that interpret the law.

My hunch is a threat by itself isn't enough. Now if he was waving a knife in front of your face and threatening to cut your nose off it might be a different story.

A threat alone isn't enough it depends on what's said and how it's said and the reasonable belief that one or even both believe they are in imminent danger.  

"Next time I see you I'm going to kick your ass."  No reasonable threat of imminent danger.
"I'm going to beat your ass."  Reasonable threat of imminent danger.

Also in Michigan prosecutors regularly refuse to charge either person in 'naturally escalated' fights citing "Mutual Combatants" using this definition (probably incorrectly)

"It is well settled that serious provocation may arise from a mutual combat. Our Court of Appeals has quoted the definition of mutual combat as one into which both parties enter willingly, or in which two persons, upon a sudden quarrel, and in hot blood, mutually fight upon equal terms.  Two other conditions must be satisfied as well: 1. the accused cannot have instigated the fight; and 2. retaliation by the accused must not be disproportionate to the provocation."

[Byteme]

Nope- you'd be surprised how a few well chosen words backed up by "honestly angry" look in your eyes can resolve a problem like that. 

Perhaps, but I'd guess that the kind of situation HD originally postualted is precipitated by some jerk just spoiling for a fight; a guy who will look for any opportunity to show what a "big man" he is.  You may be right and have the weight of law on your side to defend the honor of your wife and kids.  I guess that's something to consder while the two of you are trading punches.  "This guy may break my jaw or pull a knife, but the law is on my side".


Also, to be quite honest I doubt that everyone on this forum can play the 900 pound gorilla and stare down some jerk who is obviously out spoiling for a fight.

[CALL_911]

Hahahah too classic, gotta love the e-tough guyism in this thread.

[rohan]

Also, to be quite honest I doubt that everyone on this forum can play the 900 pound gorilla and stare down some jerk who is obviously out spoiling for a fight.

Like I said

Sometimes men have to fight that's just the nature of life.

[rohan]

  Go around picking fights with strangers and sooner or later you WILL get your ass handed to you.  Massive fail.

Since that's not what anyone's even remotely talking about......................

[Lebowski]

Would also like to point out this has absolutely nothing to do with defending the "honor" of your loved ones. You escalate a verbal scenario to violence it's on account of your own fragile ego and misconceptions/insecurity WRT your sense of manhood, let's not pretend otherwise. Saying its about defending your wife/daughter/mom's "honor" is just a diversion in a hollow attempt to justify a base act as somehow "honorable".

You do not "honor" your daughter by getting in a fight, getting yourself arrested, potentially getting your ass beat if not getting yourself stabbed, sued, and/or fired, and needlessly putting your own daughter in danger in the process.  

[Lebowski]

Since that's not what anyone's even remotely talking about......................

I'm sorry Randy which thread did you think you were posting in again?

So in real life what would you consider fighting words worth getting into a physical altercation over?

[rohan]

I'm sorry Randy which thread did you think you were posting in again?

Your lack of reading comprehension is impressive.   How does that = seeking out/picking fights?

[hotrodalex]

I've never understood why being called a cunt is so offensive.

The biggest reason I would never start a fight is because I don't want to go to jail.  The second biggest reason is that I'm a big dude and I know myself.  In high school I got in two fights.  I threw one guy over a 4 foot pony wall and down a flight of stairs, and the other guy was left unconscious on the floor.  Both were in retaliation to bullying, so I know that if I got to the point of fighting, I can't control myself and I would likely kill him.

I got in a fight when I was playing football in a kid's yard and I said something to his little brother (maybe called him a wimp? can't remember). He told me to leave his yard, but I didn't because we were done with that little situation and were just going to continue playing. But the kid insisted and I started to walk away, but then he came from behind me and punched me in the face. I had glasses and they were knocked off, but in a blind rage I got up and chased after him. He slipped so I got to him and was in the process of picking him up to choke slam him, but an older kid held me down. Probably lucky, not sure how badly I would have hurt the kid. Although he was a douche and still is to this day, so he probably would have deserved it.

[Raza]

I've never understood why being called a cunt is so offensive.

Yeah, I never got that either.  I mean, I understand that it's more offensive than bitch or whore, I just don't get why.  They seem more malicious and demeaning than cunt.  Either way, all three are on my "do not say at work" list, along with others.  Although "son of a bitch" and "cunt" have slipped out, but usually quietly or privately.  Son of a bitch I'm not so concerned about, though I wouldn't say "Man, this lady was being a bitch", though I've had my boss once tell me that he didn't understand why some chick on a call we were on was being such a bitch to me.  I'm a little more careful just because I do swear a lot--more than most, if not at the top of the list. 

[Northlands]

Hahahah too classic, gotta love the e-tough guyism in this thread.

[SVT666]

Yeah, I never got that either.  I mean, I understand that it's more offensive than bitch or whore, I just don't get why.  They seem more malicious and demeaning than cunt.  Either way, all three are on my "do not say at work" list, along with others.  Although "son of a bitch" and "cunt" have slipped out, but usually quietly or privately.  Son of a bitch I'm not so concerned about, though I wouldn't say "Man, this lady was being a bitch", though I've had my boss once tell me that he didn't understand why some chick on a call we were on was being such a bitch to me.  I'm a little more careful just because I do swear a lot--more than most, if not at the top of the list. 

As am I, but cunt is...just wrong.  It's just so derogatory.  There aren't many words I won't say, but cunt is one I only say when discussing why I won't say it.  And it's not just for women, because I've heard guys use it against other guys.  It's a strange word though because even when using it in jest like you would with asshole, motherfucker, etc, people stop laughing.

[Northlands]

Yeah, I never got that either.  I mean, I understand that it's more offensive than bitch or whore, I just don't get why.  They seem more malicious and demeaning than cunt.  Either way, all three are on my "do not say at work" list, along with others.  Although "son of a bitch" and "cunt" have slipped out, but usually quietly or privately.  Son of a bitch I'm not so concerned about, though I wouldn't say "Man, this lady was being a bitch", though I've had my boss once tell me that he didn't understand why some chick on a call we were on was being such a bitch to me.  I'm a little more careful just because I do swear a lot--more than most, if not at the top of the list. 

Step it up a notch by calling the person a blood farting sperm trough. That'll get a reaction. Not one from me, but it would be enough for some on this board to raise fists!

[Cookie Monster]

You could say anything to me, I'm not going to pick a fight. I know I'm better than the person saying shit if they have to resort to calling me names in order to try to pick a fight with me.

Also, rohan, what kind of message are you sending your kids when you intentionally try to beat the crap out of some guy in front of your kids for calling them  names? That violence is OK and that you shouldn't turn the other cheek?

[hounddog]

LOL

I leave for a couple hours and this turns funny.

:fail: for everyone in this thread at this point. 

 

[hounddog]

Very dangerous thinking.

I was talking about how taking down notes and getting folks riled up would be easy.  

Thing is with bullies and I'm-big-so-I'm-a-good-fighter types like hounddog is that they generally suck at fighting. In my prime I've had friends that 7 times out of 10 would have left hounddog lying on the sidewalk crying for his mama (Golden Gloves champ, state wrestling champ), and they were all of 6'-1" and maybe 185 lbs. The wrestler was a fighter and often times threw first; the boxer was quite mellow and was rarely in fights, but when it happened, bad news for hounddog types.

Lets see, I learned to use power and leverage at a particularly young age and went on to understand the best and most violent way to smash other extremely powerful people to the ground, then, I learned how to take that infomation and added in MCMAP to handle and even kill people, then, I went on and spent a career in LE learning and then teaching PPCT in Detroit fighting with people almost daily.  

Yeah, I have no idea how to handle myself and would simply evacuate my bladder at the first sign of trouble.  

[Lebowski]

Yeah, I have no idea how to handle myself and would simply evacuate my bladder at the first sign of trouble.  

I don't think anyone implied you'd be afraid or that you'd evacuate your bladder.  Rather, your known and acknowledged temper problem could get you into more than you bargain for one day.  Again, I'm amazed given all your experience you just rattled off that you don't realize this.

[Morris Minor]

When I was a teenager, I was out with my dad somewhere shopping in our local town. I parked the car & some officious little shit came up and told me I had to move it. I don't know why, low blood sugar, raging testosterone or something, but I just snapped into this red-haze rage. Started screaming at the guy & advancing on him. He stepped back & I remember the fear on his face. My dad had to physically hold me back.

I calmed down & remember afterwards being amazed at how I'd lost control & descended into this animal fury, with no warning & completely disproportional to the situation. It happens, it fades with age, but it's a guy thing & it's in us all.

So yes, if some asshole insults your women, they are squeezing your trigger. Hopefully for the asshole your pull weight is high; you'll calmly defuse the situation, extricate yourself & your women & walk away.