"Truly Overrated"

[2o6]

The Catera was an Opel Omega with a Cadillac badge.


The Camry and kin do things very well. There is a reason why they're so successful.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I think Japanese brand full size trucks are/were overrated. When they first came out, everybody thought they would take over the market. Instead, they just sucked. It's because the Japanese don't know anything about American pickups and what sells them. Plus, the only engines they had that were big enough were complicated, high revving transplants from their "luxury" models. They sucked as truck engines.

Toyota got it with the Tundra.

[Vinsanity]

If you like the CTS and upcoming ATS then you can thank the Catera for paving the way.  Without the Catera Lincoln LS, Cadillac would still be building hopeless wallowing front-drive geezer barges for the Geritol-addicted AARP crowd!

I believe this to be more likely. If the decision to develop the CTS rested on the success and/or quality of the Catera, then the CTS would either not have existed, or have turned out to be a steaming pile of junk. And we all know the latter is definitely not the case

[2o6]

Toyota got it with the Tundra.

Not really....sales of that model aren't near as good as the domestic competition, and it's still regarded as inferior to the domestic trucks.

[Madman]

The Catera was an Opel Omega with a Cadillac badge.

So what?  Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.  Infiniti is a rebadged Nissan.  Acura is a rebadged Honda.

[Vinsanity]

I have NEVER said the Catera was the greatest car in the world.  Nevertheless, it still has more character in one lugnut than an entire fleet of CamCords.

Also, some people have better things to worry about than how much "character" their car has. Especially people shopping the Camcord segment.

[2o6]

So what?  Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.  Infiniti is a rebadged Nissan.  Acura is a rebadged Honda.

For starters, those final three are WRONG (especially when you keep insisting the LS is a rebadged Celsior; it isn't)


Secondly, the models they sold were uplevel models from their everyday makes, capable of competing with German luxury.  

Thirdly, the Catera came from the Omega, a large sedan no more special than the Camry.

[Madman]

I believe this to be more likely. If the decision to develop the CTS rested on the success and/or quality of the Catera, then the CTS would either not have existed, or have turned out to be a steaming pile of junk. And we all know the latter is definitely not the case

You do realise that your CTS would have also been called Catera had Cadillac not decided to switch to three-letter model designations, right?  I'm sure you are also aware CTS originally stood for "Catera Touring Sedan"?

[Madman]

For starters, those final three are WRONG (especially when you keep insisting the LS is a rebadged Celsior; it isn't)


Secondly, the models they sold were uplevel models from their everyday makes, capable of competing with German luxury.  

Thirdly, the Catera came from the Omega, a large sedan no more special than the Camry.

How the hell is a Toyota Celsior, Aristo or Altezza any more "upscale" than an Opel Omega?

[2o6]

Because they were meant to be luxury vehicles.


The Chaser was below the Aristo, the highest RWD sedan of that size.

The Altezza was a sportier alternative to the Aristo and Chaser.

The Celsior was the Lexus LS first, then was soon imported back into Japan at the very top of Toyota's marque.



The Omega was a large sedan with RWD, no more special than the Vectra. It was just bigger.

[CJ]

How the hell is a Toyota Celsior, Aristo or Altezza any more "upscale" than an Opel Omega?

BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS.  They're built to a higher standard, have better interiors, and are, without a doubt, quieter on the inside.  Besides, Toyota no longer HAS an Altezza, Aristo, or Celsior, with the introduction of Lexus into the Japanese market place. 

[Onslaught]

The Tundra in no way sucks. I'm not a fan of the current one but the first one is a great truck. Much better then the domestics.

[Northlands]

Am I to understand that you disagree?  If so, then please tell me what is so friggin' wonderful about any of these personal mobility appliances.  The way I see it, these cars are the mechanical equivalent of Top-40 radio; bland mindless pablum for the ignorant masses too lazy to seek out anything better.  They are cynically developed to pander to the lowest common denominator who easily fall victim to the herd mentality.  Sneer all you like but I adamantly refuse to become one of the mindless sheep who feels the need to cave in to peer pressure and brainless conformity.

Boy you're an angry person.

For starters, the Accord has hit Car and Driver's 10 best list for years and years and years. But what the hell would they know?

Now here's the most important part. I can't recall anyone ever spouting out how awesome any of these cars are, so I'm confused as to how they would be considered " overrated ". They do the job that they are supposed to do. The average schlep that has a wife and kids to haul around do just fine buying cars like these. Most on the list are pretty reliable for the money, handle decently enough and get decent gas mileage. All the while giving you a a decent amount of space to haul people and stuff with.

There's a difference between overrated and just blind hate for anything that is popular. Most on the list aren't my favorites either, but I'm not so obtuse as to think that people are mindless for choosing one. They could do far worse.

[Cookie Monster]

The fact that Madman is hating on these midsize cars while driving two vehicles which are unbelievably boring and weren't even any good in their day is very funny.

[MrH]

The fact that Madman is hating on these midsize cars while driving two vehicles which are unbelievably boring and weren't even any good in their day is very funny.

I was trying to point that out by being ironic.  Not sure if anyone picked up on that...

It'd be one thing to talk about other cars being boring if you daily drove a Morgan or a Delorean or something, but a Catera? 

[2o6]

New cars are so boring. That's why I bought my Yaris. It's very unique.

[MrH]

New cars are so boring. That's why I bought my Yaris. It's very unique.

I've already come to the conclusion the vast majority of the "enthusiasts" out there haven't experienced most cars for sale today, and simply say they're all boring and old cars are so much better just to look anti-conformist.  Rebelling for the sake of rebelling.

[Raza]

Or, to put it in a simpler, less pretentious way, some people just want a car. A Camry honestly isn't a bad choice. It's not like there are competitors out there that will give you a BJ when you're stuck in traffic or anything, so there's really not much that average Joe is missing out on when he drives off the lot in his Camry.

I'm going to go ahead and agree.  They're not overrated because no one says they're anything that they aren't.  Reliable, comfortable, and generally basic transportation for people who don't use their cars for anything other than transportation.

[2o6]

I think many people just take too much for granted, today. New cars can do a lot of things.

[Laconian]

I'm going to go ahead and agree.  They're not overrated because no one says they're anything that they aren't.  Reliable, comfortable, and generally basic transportation for people who don't use their cars for anything other than transportation.

Except for Civics.

[Raza]

Except for Civics.

Yeah, the new Civics do suck.

[2o6]

Except for Civics.

The new ones look so odd in profile. It has a lot of wasted length, and a super-high ride height.

[CALL_911]

Actually, I don't think the new coupe is a bad looking car. The sedan looks pretty dowdy, though.

[Raza]

The new ones look so odd in profile. It has a lot of wasted length, and a super-high ride height.

It kind of reminds me a little of the also unfortunate Pontiac G6 coupe.

[2o6]

I dunno, the G6 is actually fairly pretty in person.

[MrH]

I dunno, the G6 is actually fairly pretty in person.

Stop!  I feel like you're just constantly on a warpath to discredit yourself!

[Raza]

Stop!  I feel like you're just constantly on a warpath to discredit yourself!

[2o6]

Stop!  I feel like you're just constantly on a warpath to discredit yourself!

I said it a few months ago, and a lot of people agreed with me.

[MrH]

I said it a few months ago, and a lot of people agreed with me.

That doesn't make you right.  It just makes them wrong too.

[2o6]

Ah blah blah.