Interesting counterpoint on the ATS

[LonghornTX]

You, admit as in your assertion that the "last time you checked" the Mustang was outselling the Camaro was incorrect? 

Also, I don't know where I got the idea that the Mustang had regained its sales lead, but that doesn't seem to have happened. To be honest, I don't much pay attention to the sales numbers, as I don't think they reflect much about a product.

[GoCougs]

I don't exactly understand your sentence, but if you are implying that I didn't admit that I was wrong, you should read the post immediately following the one you are referring to.

Now, with that out of the way, I assume you will now admit that you made a factually incorrect statement regarding Mustang's recent styling changes.

No admission of anything, and I'm a bit lost on what you're fishing for anyways; the Mustang has received a ton of updating since April 2009 and the Camaro still outsells it; the uber minor updates for MY2013 are highly unlikely to alter the course of the last three years.

[LonghornTX]

No admission of anything, and I'm a bit lost on what you're fishing for anyways; the Mustang has received a ton of updating since April 2009 and the Camaro still outsells it; the uber minor updates for MY2013 are highly unlikely to alter the course of the last three years.

I will re-post it again, with highlights, so that you can clearly see the parts in which you misspoke:

FWIW the MY2011 Mustang refresh, which included massive improvements in engine and drive train and moderate changes in styling (the sum of which are far greater than the MY2013 updates)

The part in bold is factually incorrect (as I have already explained). Please admit that you made a false statement, so that no one else reads you post and makes the same mistake 

[GoCougs]

Sorry, no admission of anything, which I guess is bound to make the world worse off apparently. Such is the Internet.

[LonghornTX]

Sorry, no admission of anything, which I guess is bound to make the world worse off apparently. Such is the Internet.

That's alright, we all now know (if we didn't before) that you are incapable of admitting your own mistakes, even when clearly called out. #CougsFailsWithFacts

[CJ]

Sorry, no admission of anything, which I guess is bound to make the world worse off apparently. Such is the Internet.

You were half wrong.  2010 saw the major styling update, but 2011 saw drivetrain changes. 

[GoCougs]

NO MATTER who did what to what the Camaro will continue to outsell the Mustang for MY2013.

[CJ]

NO MATTER who did what to what the Camaro will continue to outsell the Mustang for MY2013.

It probably will.  I just don't think, having driven both the Mustang and Camaro, that the Camaro is better.  I don't like the visibility, I don't like the steering wheel, and I don't care for the brakes.  The engine's awesome and it's really quick, but I prefer the Mustang.  I can see out of it, the steering wheel's great, and the brakes feel right.  It's the "worse" car, but it's the one I'd have.

[LonghornTX]

NO MATTER who did what to what the Camaro will continue to outsell the Mustang for MY2013.

Ah, so now you admit that I was right, but to make yourself feel better, you make a statement that no one person can challenge. Haha, ok bud, whatever makes you feel better.

I know which car is better. I have driven both extensively; have you? Why do you like the Camaro so much more? The Mustang GT outperforms the SS in all regards, and it is much easier to drive fast. Not to mention the ergonomics.

Is this all because you had one as your first car?

[GoCougs]

Ah, so now you admit that I was right, but to make yourself feel better, you make a statement that no one person can challenge. Haha, ok bud, whatever makes you feel better.

I know which car is better. I have driven both extensively; have you? Why do you like the Camaro so much more? The Mustang GT outperforms the SS in all regards, and it is much easier to drive fast. Not to mention the ergonomics.

Is this all because you had one as your first car?

Ha, ha, just so you know, SVT666 went down the same Mustang Jihad road WRT to the Camaro's sales success and performance, and his 'SPINning hasn't recovered since (i.e., it ended poorly, and more than once)...

The Mustang GT does not outperform the Camaro SS. Untold comparisons and road/track tests plainly tell us this; why would you assert otherwise?

[LonghornTX]

Ha, ha, just so you know, SVT666 went down the same Mustang Jihad road WRT to the Camaro's sales success and performance, and his 'SPINning hasn't recovered since (i.e., it ended poorly, and more than once)...

The Mustang GT does not outperform the Camaro SS. Untold comparisons and road/track tests plainly tell us this; why would you assert otherwise?

Sorry, your hollow threats won't keep me for exposing you for what you are; another internet jockey who has never driven either of these cars. I ask once more though, because I like picking on someone who has trouble admitting when they misspeak (we are all wrong every once in a while); do you admit that the Mustang wasn't restyled in 2011/12, or are you taking that one to the grave?

Untold comparisons pick the Mustang as #1, and it posts objectively better numbers in everything but the 1/4. For your reference:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-vs-2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-comparison-tests
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs.-2011-ford-mustang-gt

This one shows a second difference in lap times:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2011-ndash-feature-ndash-car-and-driver-sortable-times-complete-lightning-lap-times-2006-to-2011-page-8

Ultimately, I ask again, have you driven either of these cars?

[LonghornTX]

Ah, so now you admit that I was right, but to make yourself feel better, you make a statement that no one person can challenge. Haha, ok bud, whatever makes you feel better.

I know which car is better. I have driven both extensively; have you? Why do you like the Camaro so much more? The Mustang GT outperforms the SS in all regards, and it is much easier to drive fast. Not to mention the ergonomics.

Is this all because you had one as your first car?

BTW, I had misremembered that the SS was faster in the 1/4. So you can replace the "all" above with "most".

[GoCougs]

  Don't you realize you just posted that the Mustang GT is no better a performer and the Camaro??? If I was feeling particularly mean spirited I'd post up the ZL1 crushing the GT500 or Boss 302 LS, in addition to the myriad tests showing on average that the Camaro SS is actually the slightly quicker car vs. the Mustang GT (axle hop issues unfortunately).

It worked with SV666 and it shall work for you. Each time you troll the Camaro I shall beat you back with to where this all started. My suggestion is don't; it didn't end well for SVT666 and it won't end well for you. The Camaro outsells the Mustang and the Mustang ain't a better performer. Whether you accept it or not doesn't make it not so. The Beat Back is painful, FYI.

[LonghornTX]

 Don't you realize you just posted that the Mustang GT is no better a performer and the Camaro??? If I was feeling particularly mean spirited I'd post up the ZL1 crushing the GT500 or Boss 302 LS, in addition to the myriad tests showing on average that the Camaro SS is actually the slightly quicker car vs. the Mustang GT (axle hop issues unfortunately).

It worked with SV666 and it shall work for you. Each time you troll the Camaro I shall beat you back with to where this all started. My suggestion is don't; it didn't end well for SVT666 and it won't end well for you. The Camaro outsells the Mustang and the Mustang ain't a better performer. Whether you accept it or not doesn't make it not so. The Beat Back is painful, FYI.

Wow, threats are what you have you resort to? Hilarious...Keep em' coming bud, it only makes you look like...well, the guy that everyone already has seemingly so little respect for.

Answer this question Cougs. Have you driven either of these cars?  

Ok, I will continue. Other than the one acceleration statistic (1/4), the Mustang GT outperforms (braking, skidpad, fuel economy, track times) or performs the same (0-60) as the SS in every objective measure. All while being much easier to drive fast subjectively and having better ergonomics. Have you tried to drive an SS down a narrow winding road with pace? It is not easy, because the Camaro feels BIG.

The Mustang was also picked as the #1 car in other comparison tests. Here are a few more where it ends up #1:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2010-chevrolet-camaro-rs-page-2
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2011-camaro-ss-convertible-vs.-2011-mustang-gt-convertible

The ZL1 hasn't crushed the GT500, because, as you should know, the newest one isn't out yet. Considering that you seem to obsess over acceleration numbers, only a dolt would think that the ZL1 would have much of a chance in matching the new GT500 in straight line, and I think it will probably beat it out around a track too. That has yet to be seen, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ZL1 still posted better times. It is an impressive numbers car, and was designed seemingly for the track. I have also seen the single comparison test featuring the ZL1 and the Boss 302 LS, and the ZL1 definitely posted some impressive numbers. But that was only one test, and it featured Randy Pobst as the driver, who I have to say isn't the most impressive I have ever seen. He seems to be MT's guy now, so it only serves as another reason to ignore that publication for me. When R&T or C&D do a test, I will pay attention.

[LonghornTX]

 Don't you realize you just posted that the Mustang GT is no better a performer and the Camaro??? If I was feeling particularly mean spirited I'd post up the ZL1 crushing the GT500 or Boss 302 LS, in addition to the myriad tests showing on average that the Camaro SS is actually the slightly quicker car vs. the Mustang GT (axle hop issues unfortunately).

It worked with SV666 and it shall work for you. Each time you troll the Camaro I shall beat you back with to where this all started. My suggestion is don't; it didn't end well for SVT666 and it won't end well for you. The Camaro outsells the Mustang and the Mustang ain't a better performer. Whether you accept it or not doesn't make it not so. The Beat Back is painful, FYI.

Also, all this bluster from a guy who isn't even man enough to admit that he was incorrect when he asserted that the Mustang had been restyled past 2010, but before 2013...Grow a pair before you go stomping around like some kind of Billy Badass 

[CJ]

Seems like the Camaro is replacing the Mustang as the go to car for bros and bitches.  OU campus is full of 'em. 

[Xer0]

Can you have just one thread not turn into Mustang vs. Camaro?

[Madman]

You, admit as in your assertion that the "last time you checked" the Mustang was outselling the Camaro was incorrect? 

Well, one thing that's not in dispute is that the Mustang outsold the Camaro from 2003 to 2009!

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

[

BTW, I had misremembered that the SS was faster in the 1/4. So you can replace the "all" above with "most".

short gearing helps the Stang run with the SS! After that quarter mile the GT is left for dead by the SS. Just my .02

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Well, one thing that's not in dispute is that the Mustang outsold the Camaro from 2003 to 2009!

Yep! But it was also outperformed by the 04-06 GTO and 08-09 G8 GT! 

[LonghornTX]

[short gearing helps the Stang run with the SS! After that quarter mile the GT is left for dead by the SS. Just my .02

It is also hurt by less traction at the rear tire. 255 is not much at the rear tire, with that much hp. But yea, HP eventually plays out, regardless of weight, gearing or traction

[LonghornTX]

Yep! But it was also outperformed by the 04-06 GTO and 08-09 G8 GT! 

Those are both quick cars (especially got the GTO). The G8 GT has about the same performance, that would be a close drag race

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Those are both quick cars (especially got the GTO). The G8 GT has about the same performance, that would be a close drag race

The 5 Liter Stangs would kick ass but he said 2003-2009! We all know any of those non 5.0 Stangs will get spanked! I haven't had the chance to whip one but I will as soon as the opportunity arises........

[LonghornTX]

The 5 Liter Stangs would kick ass but he said 2003-2009! We all know any of those non 5.0 Stangs will get spanked! I haven't had the chance to whip one but I will as soon as the opportunity arises........

2003-2004 maybe, but 2005-2009 will have the same performance as you. Be careful! If they have done any mods, even simple ones, you're in trouble.

[GoCougs]

Can you have just one thread not turn into Mustang vs. Camaro?

Dunno - you'll have to ask the Mustang Jihadists - no one ever spins off into the weeds anytime someone disparages the Camaro. It's kinda like people with class and who have respect - they don't go around telling people they have class and are respected. Reality speaks for itself.

[GoCougs]

Jesus, that's quite a reaction. ZL1 did more than I'd figured.

[SVT666]

Mustang GT > Camaro SS

Period.  End of story.  Anyone who has driven both agrees and Cougs hasn't driven either car and he flat out refuses to, and that's what matters.  CougsFAIL.

[GoCougs]

Mustang GT > Camaro SS

Period.  End of story.  Anyone who has driven both agrees and Cougs hasn't driven either car and he flat out refuses to, and that's what matters.  CougsFAIL.

Camaro vs. Mustang sales:

April - December 2009:
Camaro: 61,468
Mustang: 56,778

2010:
Camaro: 81,299
Mustang: 73,716

2011:
Camaro: 88,199
Mustang: 65,549

Jan - April 2012:
Camaro: 31,551
Mustang: 27,934

April 2012:
Camaro: 9,627
Mustang: 7,801

[SVT666]

NEWSFLASH:

Better Sales Numbers /= Better Car


 CougsFAIL

[GoCougs]

NEWSFLASH:

Better Sales Numbers /= Better Car


  CougsFAIL

Camaro vs. Mustang sales:

April - December 2009:
Camaro: 61,468
Mustang: 56,778

2010:
Camaro: 81,299
Mustang: 73,716

2011:
Camaro: 88,199
Mustang: 65,549

Jan - April 2012:
Camaro: 31,551
Mustang: 27,934

April 2012:
Camaro: 9,627
Mustang: 7,801